Thoughts On HI Purchases?

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Oct 25, 2004
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I first started lurking on this forum a few weeks ago. The reason was that I'd picked up a khukuri-shaped machete from CS for use at work and had been impressed with its cutting and chopping abilities as compared to the G.I. machetes we normally use. My search for the "real deal" eventually led me here.

I spent about another week reading old threads, running searches, etc. I very rarely purchase something without researching it a bit. I paid particular attention to threads detailing what styles of khukuri were good for certain types of work. I haven't learned all that I wanted to just yet but I'm working on that. 100 threads or so to go for this last year, then it's on to the beginning. :)

My main concern at present (regarding work) is clearing heavy brush, saplings, and the occasional fallen tree. I'm located in the Pacific Northwest, in a heavily wooded old growth forest that may or may not have been logged in the past, depending on which area of the facility I'm working at. I spend about half my time clearing Scotch Broom and pine saplings, both of which enjoy disturbed/poor/sandy soil (found in abundance at shooting ranges) and tend to spread pretty rapidly. Besides these two, I spend a bit of time clearing blackberries (another local pest), a bit more time limbing rhododendrons (a pest for us, but not for the locals), and the remainder of my defoliation activities are geared toward limbing and occasionally sectioning fallen trees that're blocking the back roads. I don't know the names of all the trees out here but there aren't too many hardwoods. I know for a fact that there are a lot of pines, cedars, and alders. We do have access to chainsaws, especially when the trees are over 6" or so in diameter, but they're normally left back in the shop as they're too much of a pain to carry and fuel can be a problem. (Not that sectioning a 2' tree with a maul isn't a problem. For anyone who's done it, you know what I'm talking about.) We tend to use machetes for just about everything besides large trees. Not the best tool, but easier to carry than a chainsaw or an axe and the G.I. blades are pretty sturdy.

Bearing in mind that this is my normal kind of work, that I'm 6'2", 235 lbs., and used to swinging fairly heavy objects, I went ahead an placed an order for a Chiruwa AK. I figure it ought to be right up my alley for this kind of work. That sums up my first purchase.

I was also looking for a decent bowie knife. I'd been leaning toward CS (I've had good luck with their products in the past) but was still undecided. I noticed the HI Bowie while shopping for my AK, but the name was not what grabbed my eye. I cook as a hobby. (Bear with me here.) The knife I use for most of my kitchen cutting is a large meat cleaver I purchased a year ago at the base exchange for a measly $8. Cheap steel, but it took a good edge, felt good in my hand, and I learned to do just about all of my cutting with it. (Very little chopping, ironically.) That HI bowie looked like a meat cleaver with a point. I realized, right then and there, that that was the bowie I'd been looking for. I placed the order with a smile.

I have several questions for the HI afficianados here. First and foremost, did I make a good choice on the AK? Bear in mind, I'm going to thrash this thing. I appreciate a durable tool much more than a pretty one. (My rifle at work is an M16A3. At home, it's a SAR-3. :) ) That warranty also looks pretty nice. When I'm buying a tool of a new sort, I try to buy a good one -- they tend to save money in the long run. From all I've seen of HI's reputation, they seem to make good tools. If it's half as nice as I think it is I'll be very satisfied. Was it a good choice for this application, though?

Secondly: there are times when I'm clearing nothing but light brush. Especially when I'm at home, I spend the majority of my time chopping nothing heavier than blackberry bushes. The Wal-Mart $6 special can do the job (a bit light and the handle is every bit as bad as the G.I. ones, but it works) but that pot metal it's made out of dings horribly on anything harder than Styrofoam; you're looking at time on the bench grinder after an hour or less of cutting, and if you manage to hit a stone or forgotten barbed wire fence (I do both often) you'll be grinding quite a bit. The CS machete I currently use at work holds up better but honestly, it's too short for my liking when working on prickly vines. I want something at least 20". Longer is better here. Those thorns can and do penetrate leather gloves and when my aim is off with a short machete, I usually wind up bleeding. I was looking at the Kobra style blades for this task. Any thoughts on a better choice?

Next: I'm not expecting to be disappointed in the least by the HI bowie, but are there any special tips I should know about it? I'm planning on using a standard bevel on it rather than a convex grind as I'm much better at sharpening a standard bevel. I can understand that convex is a more desirable way to go on a chopping blade, but I'm not planning on chopping often with my bowie. (I don't chop with the knives I use now, after all.) Would this be a real disadvantage?

Last but not least, and not a question: this is a truly outstanding forum. By simply chasing links, running searches, and grinding through old threads, I've answered most of my questions without even asking them. (I probably could've answered the rest if I kept going.) I've also answered quite a few questions that I hadn't even asked yet -- always a good sign. The knowledge base here is amazing.

I know, I know, I should've asked before making my purchases, not after. I'm sorry. I couldn't wait any longer. :D The posts I've read here and elsewhere pretty much convinced me that I won't be disappointed, regardless of what I order. I'd just like to hear a bit of wisdom from some folks with experience. I have a feeling that this won't be my first order.

Now, if I only knew a way to make the wait for my order to arrive a little more tolerable... :)
 
chitlangi's are made up to 25" on special request or quick grab from uncle bill, i would guess the same for the gelbu specials, being the big guy you are it should fit right.
welcome to the cantina
 
Satori, welcome.

And let me contratulate you on one of the best 'first posts' I've seen here.

Based on the description of the work that you're doing, it seems to me that you'll be needing 2 khuks: one for the whippy stalks of the Scotch Broom and the rhodies, and one for the limbing of trees. For the former, one of the longer Kobras would be best. 25" or longer. A sirupati of the same length would work, too, if you're pretty strong, as they are a bunch heavier per inch than the Kobras.

For limbing, you can't do better than an AK. BTW, what size did you get? The chiruwa-style handle is a matter of preference; you'll hear argument on both sides about tang strength and transference of vibration.

Can't comment on the use of the Bowie for cooking (or anything else, though there are people here who REALLY love them), since I prefer a MUCH thinner edge for slicing, like a santoku. Though I do cook full meals with both a Kumar Karda and a Pen knife. Never had a lot of use for cleavers.

As you've noticed, there are a lot of choices, and a lot MORE opinions about those choices. A couple of my favorites for heavy chopping are a 20" AK villager, whose blade I've blued, and a GRS. As pure weopons, the Malla and chainpuri stand out in my mind.

Best of luck on your future choices. If you stick around, you'll be buying more.
 
You will probably want a heavier khuk than the chiruwa Ak for the thickest stuff.

I'd think any of the lighter khuks, Sirupati, Gelbu Special, and Chitlangi would work well for the dense brush.
There are some weed wackers here who swear by the machette for lightest stuff.


munk
 
Hi Satori, welcome to the forum. I use a heavy (2 lb.) Chiruwa AK for just the type of tasks you describe, it does a great job. For lighter stuff like blackberry and Oregon grape I mostly use an 18" Gelbu Special.

Edited to add: What boat were you on?
 
Welcome! Looks like you put a whole lot of thought into your purchases and I doubt you'll be disappointed in either of them. What size chiruwa AK did you get? I have an 18" model, and although I'm quite a bit smaller than you I can do a fair amount of damage with it. Not much damage to it however, no matter how hard I tried. It should be more than up to any limbing or chopping task you put it to. Considering your size a 20" AK might even work a bit better since you can really put a lot of muscle into your swing.

For the light brush you speak of I highly recommend a Sirupati or Kobra. I have both an 18" and 25" Kobra and both are very effective, with the 25" getting the nod for reach. The only problem is it's so long that it wears out my wrist trying to hold onto it during full-force swings. You may not have this problem. I'd really like to try a 22" model as I think it would offer the best of both worlds. You might want to look at Martindale machetes too, I've heard great things about them. Machetes definitely have their place with light, springy vegetation. Best of luck with your khuks.

BTW, from your mention of the base exchange I gather you're in the military. Do you mind me asking which branch? I'm in the Army myself, just passed my 3 yr mark this summer.
 
The khukuri is a multi-purpose knife and most models will do most jobs. The different styles are optimised for the tasks they most frequently perform.

You will fatigue fairly quickly if you use a heavy knife for clearing blackberries. The ideal knife for this task will be lightweight and easy to accelerate. See my review of the Udhaipur at http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/Styles2.htm#Udhaipur%20Village%20Khukuri%20Review%20by%20Howard%20Wallace . These are hard to find but a lightweight khukuri coming in at 1 oz/inch or less would be my choice for blackberries and scotch broom.

Your choice, however, is a good one. I suspect that AK will do what you want. I have carried one in my truck for many years and it has seen a lot of use. As you use it you may have so much fun that you get an urge to try a slightly different style for a particular task. That will be the beginning of the end for you, as you fall into the trap of exploring the characteristics of the many varieties of khukuri.
 
Raggie steered you right as have the rest of the guys, but Raggie is your neighbor over in Idaho in a town I used to live in years ago and has a mostly outside job that he didn't mention.:D ;)

I have a 21"+ Chitlangi that would be ideal for the Pacific Northwest Blackberry vines!!!!:cool: I last lived in Curtin just outside of Cottage Grove and Eugene, actually worked in Eugene at a place called Sweetland Products, don't know if it's still there. It was a small automatic screw machine business where we made arrow points and had just started branching out into some different jobs from local businesses there, moved back to Oklahoma when the bottom dropped out of everything up there in 1980.:(
The nice thing about the Chitlangi is it's a bit stronger than the Kobra because of its double fullers but is light like the Kobra and best of all IMO cuts like a much heavier khukuri!!!!:D

If you got an 18" Chiruwa AK you did fine with your size. Personally I think the 15" AK is a little small for larger and heavier work even if it is built like a two door tank.;)
I prefer the little bit lighter khuks like the 18" BGRS also known as the 18" Ganga Ram Special.
The 17" and 18" Village models are also hard to beat for general work as you've described.

As to the regular beveled edges versus the convexed edge you will probably be all right if you put a more obtuse angle so as to have a bit thicker edge and so that there will be some material behind the edge for strength.
The thin edges that come on some khuks are way too thin for hard chopping and will roll as well as twist savagely!:grumpy: :(
And if you have access to a belt sander in the shop, even a 1" one you will have the key too keeping and maintaining a convex edge.
If not the old mouse pad and sandpaper trick will work just fine.
We have a tendency too get carried away with the edges we put on our khuk's:rolleyes:, but a 150-200 grit edge is just fine for a true working edge and actually better in some cases.
The only problem with such a coarse edge in the Pacific Northwest climate is that it is more prone to rusting, but if kept well oiled will probably do just fine.
And last but not least Welcome Aboard!!!!:D
 
I'll try to answer everything here. Forgive me if I miss something.

I ordered the 16.5" AK. I figure that I can handle the 18" okay, probably even the 20", but I'd rather err on the side of lighter rather than heavier. Remember, I'm used to taking on small to medium trees with a machete (definitely too light for the job) and I'd rather take more swings with a tool that's too light than hurt myself with one that's too heavy. If I need more, I can get more later. As this will be my first real khukuri, it's probably better if I start a little lighter to begin with anyway to learn the proper techniques. A couple of years ago I would've started with the largest and worked my way down, but countless injuries have taught me that this is not the best way to proceed. ;)

I hadn't originally looked very hard at the Gelbu Special, but that may very well be a better choice than the Kobra. I'll have to do some serious thinking on this. I can read the numbers (weight, length, etc.) off the web site, but what are the real differences? How does the balance compare between the two on average?

I'm not intending to use the bowie for cooking. It's going to get used out in the field, and hard. It's just that I'm used to making a variety of cuts with a cleaver and this seems to be a good choice for me. I saw more than a few posts extolling the virtues of the UBE and that might have been a better choice but it's not a blade style that I'm used to. That bowie really caught my eye. I can't wait to hold it.

As far as handle differences with the Chiruwa, I've read that the vibration transmitted by strikes might be a bit more. I'm not too worried about that aspect of it. Anyone here who's used a G.I. machete will appreciate what I mean. The handles are thin, hard, and slip very badly. I have to readjust my grip every few swings. The vibration is nasty. They work fine for what they're made to do (i.e., clearing brush), but against harder targets they're downright uncomfortable. I've bruised my pinky finger on the lanyard loop before.

I agree that I'll probably need two khuks. At least two. Actually, I can find a use for just about every khuk that's listed. I have a feeling that this won't be my only order. :)

The Scotch Broom can be a real PITA. Newer plants are basically soft foliage. Older ones pretty much have wood for stalks. It would be all right if they'd stay seperated but the rotten things seem to like mingling. I've found some that took just about everything we could throw at them and we wound up simply ripping them out of the ground. Some of these monsters shrug off weed eaters with blades equipped. If the stalks are cut off at too high a height, you wind up with a field of punji stakes. (Don't laugh -- I've seen them pop tires. There are a few berms we trimmed a while back that we don't walk on anymore due to the fact that a fall would probably be fatal.) It'll be tough to find a perfect khuk for the job.

This is not what I pictured government service to be like when I enlisted. :)

I used to complain about the poison ivy on the east coast. At least it was easy to cut.

Thanks all for the advice.

And I still missed some things...

Raghorn: last ship was the Sacramento (AOE-1), Florida before that (SSBN-728), currently soaking up some shore duty at Camp Wesley Harris.

Roadrunner: USN, 8 years. I've learned that Seabees aren't the only ones that have to clear brush sometimes. :)

Yvsa: missed your post while I was composing mine, yet another choice to consider. As far as convex grinds are concerned, it was probably time for me to learn how to do it anyway.

I can see how these khuks can become an expensive habit. :)
 
As far as handle differences with the Chiruwa, I've read that the vibration transmitted by strikes might be a bit more.

If that does turn out to be a problem, I HIGHLY recommend one of the finger-grooved models if Uncle Bill has any in stock. Most comfortable chopping handle I've used bar none. I've got a review up here if you haven't seen it already.
 
I think you'll be pleased with your AK. I earned my dolphins on the USS Bergall (SSN-667) in 1984. :)
 
...Would handle machete-type tasks with ease, smile, then beg for more!

Look up any and all posts by a fellow forumite Tom Holt. He personally favours the long, slim and (relatively) lightweight khuks. The 25" Korba is his favourite and has been hailed as his "ultimate" khuk. In his most extensive report, he took on hacking through even 8" branches of willow and hazel, so it'd be more than capable of handling everything you just mentioned.

I too love the long, slender, lightweight "fighting" khuks, thanks in no small part to extensive interactions via email with Tom before I made my first purchase.

If a machete-like khuk, with bomb-proof indestructability and capability to do almost anything and everything else required by an axe against small trees, is what you're after, the 25" Kobra is the one. I'm sure others will soon chime in with their fave slim lightweight "fighting" khuks, but the Kobra would be the best for the such utility use...
 
Welcome Satori:)
I can't add a whole lot more to what the other guys have said, but I can tell you that I am a BIG AK bowie fan. I know you said you don't chop with your knives, but the AK bowie will almost inspire you to do so. I love it because it gives you the heft of probably a 15" AK, but retains a straighter edge for bowie type applications. If you like the coffin-like handle on it, then that's great. however, I sanded mine down just enough to take the edge off the angles of the horn and it is magic. I'd can't put into words how great if feels in the hand. you made the right choice in going with the AK bowie. I have a CS trailmaster that i bought before i found HI. Great knife, but just doesn't have the feeling of the AK bowie. As a matter of fact, the trailmaster wet it's sheath and hide under the bed the day the AKB arrived. haven't seen it since;) The AKB will speak to you. It has a restless nature to it (at least mine does). It says, "Chop that tree down? No sweat! Cut the lock out of that car door? Sure! Why don't we do both doors..it'll be fun! Pry the front door off its hinges? Cool! Screwdrives are for sissies." You'll love it!;)

As for the lighter brush, I would opt for a 20 or 25" Kobra with the 20" being my first choice. I have both, but the 20" just feels better to me in the fact that it can be controlled much better than the 25". My 20"er is actually 20.5" and comes in at 20.5oz. It'll cut through a dogwood sappling in a single swipe. The 25"er is a great khuk, but mine has two things working against it. First, it's heavy for a kobra. it comes in at 32oz. Secondly, the handle is a little shorter than my 20.5"er. this puts all the weight in that beefy blade so that once you start, you are committed to where the kobra is going. The only thing to keep in mind is that IIRC the kobras are not covered by the same warranty as the other HI knives. They aren't unconditional like the other ones. If you take an 18" kobra and try to cut down a 4" oak tree with it and bend your blade, well that's just poor judgement. But, you still have a good amount of protection even with the kobra. Say you were cutting down 1-2" trees with it and the blade snaps off the tang. Uncle Bill would probably work with you on that one.
In other words, you are doomed, friend. Enjoy the maddening fever of HI:)
Once again, welcome.

Jake
 
At 6'3" or a bit more and 270#, my version of a machete is the Tarwar. Not for everyone of course, but for grown men...consider it.
 
Satori said:
... I'm located in the Pacific Northwest...I spend a bit of time clearing blackberries...
My place is south and west of you on the coast in Gray's Harbor County. Clearing brush is also a problem for me, maybe even more so because of the Rain Forest environment here which makes everything grow faster and thicker.

I'm too old and stove up to try to swing a blade, so I've been looking for an easier alternative to get rid of patches of blackberries, salmon berries, and thimble berries.

A neighbor told me he was going to try a method his grandad used which was to lay a long steel cable around the whole patch. One end of the cable has a loop that you put the other end through and pull it tight like a noose and yank the whole patch right out of the ground with your tractor or truck.

I don't believe it. I would expect the cable to just ride up over the branches, but he swears it works. Even if it did pull the bushes out, what do you do with them then? They would still have to be chopped up to haul away unless you could pull them into a clearing and burn them.

Next time I see him I'll ask him how it went.
 
i'd love to see that, Ben. Even if you couldn't pull them out of the ground, being strangled and bunched together might weaken them enough to consider other methods.



munk
 
Steely_Gunz said something I want to second. I've a 25 or 26 inch kobra that has to my taste, way too much forward weight to it. Very unbalanced and unsafe to me as I think it could glance off with a bad cut and turn in your hand. 20" Kobras are the longest i'd go. The Sirupati's seem less angled in the larger sizes. I keep a 30" Sirupati to use cutting air in a figure 8 pattern horiaontally when my back bothers me. Seems to pull my back into alignment.
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
A neighbor told me he was going to try a method his grandad used which was to lay a long steel cable around the whole patch. One end of the cable has a loop that you put the other end through and pull it tight like a noose and yank the whole patch right out of the ground with your tractor or truck.

Sounds like a story straight out of a cowboy poetry contest. :rolleyes: ;)
 
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