thoughts on reusing (or copying) knife designs?

tyyreaun

tyyreaun

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Feb 26, 2017
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So given the responses that Microtech gets for copying the 0777, I'm curious what response this gets:
http://knifenews.com/vagninos-convertible-dagger-a-no-brainer-for-kizer/

Specifically:
The high-end custom knife comes from surprisingly humble origins. Fellow maker and Visalia, CA resident Ray Laconico found a cheap, poorly-made production version, and brought it to Vagnino’s shop. “I thought it was cool, but not very well-made,” Vagnino tells us. But he saw potential in the rickety design and took it apart to see how it worked. He discovered that the loose tolerances, poor workmanship, and cheap materials hindered what could have been an interesting knife, so Vagnino decided to do it right. “I didn’t re-engineer it, but I improved the quality of the mechanism,” he says.​

I'm not trying to support Microtech or hate on Laconico/Vagnino, but I'm genuinely curious: do you consider these situations to be similar? Are there acceptable circumstances when a maker can reuse existing designs?
 
I think that it only matters when a knife design can be traced to a person or company.
For example there's only one Buck 110, and copying it's design even remotely shouldn't be done.
However something like the cold Steel trailmaster really isn't a unique design as it's very reminiscent of your classic Sheffield Bowie knife.

Now I've had more than a few cheap Chinese folders with designs I couldn't trace and have thought about how a good company could actually do right by the design.
The Chinese companies who make them don't care about ownership of design , and the same one can come from many factories. They often copy famous designs, and
they believe in making whatever design will sell. I find nothing wrong with making a good example of a poorly executed Chinese design.
It may not be wise to start making a design that already has poor quality examples being made, the right company might be able to make it happen successfully.
 
A random knife not attached to a name and is then improved by another maker imho shouldnt be an issue. There is no IP to lose or protect. And he is also being honest about origins of the design. Now if later down the line it was discovered that the cheap knife he improved upon was actually in and of itself a rip off then he would probably want to seek permission of that maker. In most cases, cloning is only really frowned upon when a design is used without permission. In the case of a no name flea market knife there is no person to ask. For now at least.
 
This is one of those times where each person will have to make their judgement with what they're comfortable with. For instance almost every knife company ripped off Marble's designs pretty quickly, but no one really brings it up or cares any more. Same with a lot of Mike Stewart's stuff, he basically made his bones copying Randall and other known designs. And very seldom are guys like Michael Walker, Robert Hayes, etc.... mentioned anymore for things like the flipper, linerlock, etc.... Designs get old, people forget.

A big thing with me is acknowledgement of the original designer and time between copies. If you can't change enough to make the design your own, you should at least fully acknowledge where the design came from, and if it's relatively new, at least give the designer some time to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
 
Parker sold those "convertible" daggers in the 1970's. I've owned a couple. The idea wasn't new then. It's a pattern with very limited use, and never caught on because if that.

If you can come up with something truly new patent it. Fact is there's not a lot of that happening in the knife world because after 2000 years (actually longer) there's not much that hasn't been done. If you can't patent it it's probably a copy. And it's probably going to be copied.

The shape of a blade or the handle, or the way a mechanism works, doesn't make it new. Most of the time it's just marketing.
 
If there is no patent infringement or Trademark violation or any other breach of IP laws - it's a fair game. Also, one should rember that patents and trademarks are regional and laws asociated with them are country dependant.
Something that would violate an IP in US, might be completely legal in another country. And thanks to the Internet we can legally buy this things as well.
 
Ruso said:
If there is no patent infringement or Trademark violation or any other breach of IP laws - it's a fair game. Also, one should rember that patents and trademarks are regional and laws asociated with them are country dependant.
Something that would violate an IP in US, might be completely legal in another country. And thanks to the Internet we can legally buy this things as well.
Click to expand...

legality does not equal morality
 
interesting discussion Purple. have to think about it, as i dont have an opinion yet on the topic.
 
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