Thoughts on the altoid style MINI-KIT

[psy-ops]

The mini-kit is very popular and can be searched easily, so I am not going to go into what to put in it.

Since I post alot some might think I have got the right gear and training or just a big mouth.

But it is only recently that I got a mini-kit. Sure I have carried survival stuff around but never in the Altoids style mini-kit.

before(Sept 11) I used to think it was such a bother to organize and get a small quantity of essentials in an Altoids tin. I was always prepared but not organized. a key point!

I am embarrassed to admit that I have been into survivalism for about 10 years. In the beginning it was curiosity, fun and deffinitely not serious. Then I got a real wake up call and luckily had enough "fun gadgets" to survive through it.
In the previous 8 years of "survivalism" I wasn't very organized I didn't put BOB's together or much less a mini-kit. I had gear and supplies but they weren't organized in a manner that they could be used effectively! I was better off than the average person but why stop there?

At least once a month someone posts a tragic news story of someone lost in the woods. so we know this is a common occurrence. and really the solution is almost always the same: knowledge, training and gear.

The mini-kit could save your life!

Important points:

#1.TRAINING; you have to know what to do with your kit. Practice with it often, have your wife learn to make a spark based fire. use items from your kit every now and again. (don't forget to replace them!)

#2.FAMILIARITY; Making and organizing your kit helps you become familiar with it then when the time comes you know where everything is. Like if you buy an emergency kit(pre-made) and never look at it when the time comes you will be to busy reading directions to use it well. plus you can customize it to your skill level and needs.

#3. ACCESSIBLITY; I put my mini-kit in my zipper compartment on my fleece jacket at all times it is there. It is natural for me to carry it as my knife, keys and wallet. No BS it is part of my body. When I change jackets I move the kit. When I come home at night just like I take out my wallet and put it on a stand and so does my kit and keys come out.
Knives are always with me!

#4. WILL, BRAINS and IMPROVISING are important. but having a kit increases your chances of survival tremendously.


if this is old hat to you, sorry but after so many tragic posts of people getting lost. I felt it was necessary to cover the basics again.

 

[bsquare]

Chrisaloia,
There are a lot of armchair "survivalists" out there, but a lot more that don't give it a second thought. Being prepared with the small kits is great. I recently opened up the one I made in Boy Scouts 40 years ago in a Sucrets Tin. Though I wouldn't trust any of the items in there, they were many of the originals. I too carry one in my coat pocket, another, slightly larger in my shoulder bag. My problem with these kits is that while they might work fine if plopped out in the middle of nowhere, I find the usual supplies in them limited in an urban environment where collapsed buildings and looters may be the largest problems. I don't really need to build a fire if caught under tons of concrete and steel.(Thus I carry a similar size first aid kit.) Nor would a snare or single edge razor give me or those around me a great deal of relief in fending off looters. The whistle and mirror, however are another story as they might actually get used. Thus those Kits that I carry bring me more a sense of relief in knowing that I'm at least thinking and planning for situations that I pray never occur, besides I think they're fun to build. If I'm forced to go afoot with family in tow, then the larger family BOB's are in order equiped for all types of situations. If forced to stay and defend the homestead (Ok a house in the subdivision), then I feel I could at least arm the whole neighborhood if necessary and organize them into acquiring those essential items that we all discuss here in the forums.
I personally don't mind all your posts, they keep me thinking, planning and preparing. Keep it up. As my handle says Be Prepared, though that also means that you will be the one others depend upon should the SHTF.

 

[psy-ops]

you brought up a great point I missed.

location location location.

right now I am in more of a country environ. so mine is geared towards that. an urban one should vary a bit.


thanks

chris

 

[V Shrake]

Actually, I just spent the last couple of days "fine tuning" my pocket carry gear as well as my BOB. And I think that there would be more "carry over" in a wilderness kit used in the city than you might think. After all, the basice needs don't change too much with terrain. Shelter, water, food, possible self defense, and signalling (though I'm not real big on the "getting found" aspect; I figure I can either get out on my own, or I don't wish to be found).

Anyway, a large garbage bag can be used as a lean-to roof in the woods, or to cover up a blown out window in the city. First aid needs don't change with the location; you can get a puncture wound from a stick as well as from rebar in wreckage. So I built my kits around the same premise: stuff to keep me alive during a crisis, whatever or wherever. I live in the sticks, but shop in the city, and spend a lot of time "in-between", going from one to the other. So I have my pockets (I wear BDU's, so I can carry a good sized kit *on me* at all times) filled with the basics, and my BOB is made to build off of that, adding redundancy and a little bit of "comfort".

As has often been pointed out, we never KNOW when things may turn dicey, so if you don't have your "stuff" with you 24/7, you might as well not have it at all.

 

[maury]

I live in lower Manhattan.....close enough to what's become known as "Ground Zero" to have heard the first plane go by on 9-11. I used to carry a small kit, based in good part on information I've picked up here. Regretably, I have had to re-think just exactly what I need to have with me in my day-to-day living enviorment.

As mentioned above, items like snare wire won't be much use. In a 9-11 type emergency, first aid is either going to be treating something that is life-threatening or it will have to wait - carrying any first-aid gear is useless. A belt or strip of cloth can make a torniquet to stop serious bleeding, but I'd need help to survive beyond that, and a pain killer, medicated bandaid or tube of antibiotic cream won't make a heck of a lot of differance.

Here's what I carry:

1. Pair Of Leather Work Gloves
2. Flashlight -AA size
3.Leatherman Supertool
4 Small Pry Bar, ends taped and 20' of 550 cord wrapped around it
5. A large Bandana to wrap up this stuff. It all fits neatly in whatever shoulder bag or briefcase I carry.
.
There is a Fox 40 Whistle and a Photon Microlite on my key ring and a 3" folder in one of my pockets.

I usually have a small bottle of water with me.

I figure that these will give me a chance - big assumption that I'd be alive and ambulitory!- to get out of a building that's on fire or been bombed, signal for help, find my way through the dark and give me a bit of an edge in a fighting situation.

Practically speaking, I don't know that there's a heck of a lot more that I'd carry on a daily basis, but if anyone has some suggestions, II'd be happy to hear about them.









Basically, I figure that

 

[psy-ops]

snare wire has alot more uses than catching rodents. though in NYC you mightfind yourself in the subways looking for lunch.

you can use snare wire as tie-downs and, repair wire for a car I am sure there are hundreds of uses that necessity would bring.

Maury, Do you carry a pry bar on your person at all times? in the bathroom or at a meeting?

so the MINI-KIT essentials would be on you AT ALL TIMES? like v-shrake says 24/7.

 

[maury]

Well, as you mention above, "location, location, location...." and that's pretty much what determines what I have handy. That and practical considerations. Couple of facts of my lifel in New York City: I travel by subway and spend a fair part of my working week in office buildings

The best plan I can come up with for emergencies involve these considerations. Of all the possible day-to-day conditions that I could encounter, the most life-threatening (and possible) would be that I have to get out of a tall building or stalled subway train. There might be smoke and fire conditions. Things I might need (and "might" is the operative word) would be some sort of protection from dust and smoke, a source of emergency light, a tool to pry opened stuck doors or to smash glass, and some means to signal my location.

Food, shelter and the prompt arrival of emergency medical help are not things we need to worry about in New York City. The events of 9-11 proved that our emergency response was nothing short of spectacular. And it has gotten even better since then.

My leather gloves, flashlight, Supertool and prybar, wrapped in a bandana, make a small and easy to carry package. The key ring with the Microlight and whistle and my folding knife are always in my pocket. Yes, they do come to meetings and the bathroom - packed in my shoulder bag or briefcase - why not?

 

[Social cameleon]

You don't neccisarilly have to have a pry bar on you at all times. This is all about "What if," anyway, so carry what you can when you can. I personally wouldn't mind having a 4" angle grinder, and pocket generator on me when I'm trying to dig out of rubble, but I'm not holding my breath. Further, you'd be hard pressed to get even a knife into a court house, or other secure area, so if it get's bombed, you'll have to do without.
Survival is a compromize betweemn having what you need, and making do with what you have. By definition, you aren't going to have everything in a survival situation, or it wouldn't be a survival situation

 

[psy-ops]

All I am saying is a mini-kit always on your body even when you go to a meeting and have to go to the bathroom. You don't pack up your suitcase every time you go to the bathroom. It would look a bit odd!


So this whole thread is about carrying a mini-kit on you at ALL TIMES. Then sure, I don't care if you carry a Sawzall in your back pack. My point is you aren't gonna take the Sawzall to the bathroom with you all the time.

I would bet alot of people were in the bathroom when the planes hit. In cetain situations it isn't wise to run back to get your backpack, briefcase etc.
So it really doesn't matter if you have a prybar, Sawzall, automatic weapon. The fact is we all can be caught with our proverbial pants down. One of the lesson we have learned so much is that it is best to have at least a mini-kit that you will ALWAYS have on your body then the sawzall somewhere else where you could become separated from it.


I am not saying you need only have a mini-kit and nothing else.

good luck

chris

 

[frank k]

Maury,
You may want to consider adding some of the following to your kit:
- hacksaw blade wrapped with some duct tape.
- paper dust mask(s).
- goggles of some sort (to keep dust out of your eyes).
- small bottle of eye wash.
- Snaplight(s) (I figure these might help someone find you in a building colapse).
These are all fairly light and low cost. Good luck.

 

[guncollector]

Chrisaloia, et al.

Check out the old thread about an Altoid Mini Kits here at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181196.

And, posted below here is the original article in that thread. However, do go back to the original thread as there were a nubmer of great modification and situational-specific improvement suggestions.

Hope this helps!

Ron
GunCollector

--- original post ---
This article was written by me, and posted originally over at Razor's Redoubt. It will hopefully eventually appear on good tactics and survival informationa website of DREARIC.COM.

I thought I'd post a copy here, as some may be interested.

The Urban Survival Mini-Kit: One Approach (v.2.0)
by Guncollector of Bladeforums.com

In our day-to-day lives disasters big and small lurk around every corner. They range in size from "small disasters" like a dreaded dent on your parked car, to the horrific and tragic example of our most recent terrorist attacks of "9/11". Filling the range in between, you have earthquakes, tornados, floods, riots, power-grid failures (whether blackouts or brownouts), etc. The list is nearly endless.

While generally speaking, our society at large has "emergency systems" in place for disasters; experience has shown that quite often there is insufficient material support and/or services. The inability to rely on government emergency services and the unpredictable nature of events, both natural and man-made, therefore requires the prudent person to be prepared for himself!

These required preparations, like the disasters themselves, will come in range of sizes. The larger preparations may be akin to stocking your home with food, water, and medical supplies. Intermediate preparations, for example, may take the form of a "Bugout Bag" in your home and office, or in the car.

This article is about a "small" preparation, with "big" potential for comfort in times of duress--maybe even lifesaving potential.

I term it The Urban Survival Mini-Kit (USMK) . The USMK measures a scant 3.5"x2.4"x0.9" (96mmx60mmx21mm), and weights only 4.5 ozs. It can easily be slipped into a breifcase, pocket, or purse, and remain there nearly unnoticed until time of need.

Besides being inexpensive, the USMK is also very simple to to assemble. This makes is practical--mandatory--to make one for every member of the family, friends, and/or relatives. What better way to say "I care", than to provide them with this condensed form of preparedness. If you shop carefully, the entire kit itself can be assembled for less than $40.00--the cost of one night out to dinner for family of 3. Making multiple kits, as most families should, will lower the per unit cost even more.

The container itself is an Altoids Mints tin--which you most certainly can find at any convenience market or grocery store. Undoubtedly, there are other suitable "tins", but this one seems to me to be the perfect size to carry with you everywhere--a nice byproduct of Altoid's packaging and marketing research dollars. Most of the contents you may already have around the house, or are available to you at the local sundries store. Some of the space-saving wonders, like the Photon Micro-light II LED light will require a small investment of time and money to procure.

So, without further ado, let's examine the contents:

- 2 Anti-bacterial wipes
- 1 Large Bandaid
- 4 Standard size Bandaids
- 8 Ibuprofen, 200mg
- 1 Pencil stub
- 4 Sheets, Notepaper (waterproof), cut down to 2"x2" ("Rite in the Rain" brand)
- 1 Cheatsheat on notepaper (with important tel, acct, and Calling Card numbers)
- 1 Lighter, butane (Bic mini)
- 12 Matches & Striker (waterproof)
- 12 Safety Pins, assorted
- 12 ft. Light twine (orange safety color)
- 1 Compass, watchband-size (Brunton)
- 1 Jig Saw blade, serrated, metal-cutting
- 1 Jig Saw blade, non-serrated, leather/plastic-cutting
- 1 Swiss Army Knife, keychain-size
- 1 Photon Micro-light II LED light
- 2 Candles, birthday (relighting)
- 1 Sewing kit, 6 needles & thread
- 8 Water Purification Tablets (enough for 8 qt. of water)
- 1 Condom (for water storage)
- 1 Moleskin, 1"x2" patch
- 2 ft.L x 1/2"W Duct tape (not shown), taped to perimeter of tin
- 2 Rubberband (cutdown inner tube, securing tin shut)

Unbelievably, all these items fit into the aforementioned tin. Also, you may note that I personally included a listing of the contents pasted to the cover of the USMK. This keeps me from having to remember or guess what's inside six months after I packed it; and from having to take everything out to do an inventory.

Packing all the above is a bit tricky, but after a few attempts you will see that it is not impossible. All the flat items are at the bottom of the tin. Everything else is put in "where it fits".

Also, as picture above, I use the Ranger Rubberbands to generally secure the tin shut. I also will wrap a strip of either electrical tape or more duct tape around the perimeter of the tin to waterproof the entire USMK.

With this USMK in tow, I have much potential in a tiny package.

In an emergency with it alone, I have my important telephone numbers and account information at my fingertips--including the all-important calling card # and passcode. I have access to waterproof paper to make notes to myself, or leave notes for others (using also a strip of the duct tape). In the case of an auto breakdown, I can orient myself (and possibly rescuers on a cellphone) in bad weather and unfamiliar areas with the use of the mini-compass. I can administer some minor first aid for cuts and bruises, and even have some painkiller handy. I can start a fire, if necessary, for heat, signalling, or to simply light a cigarette to calm nerves. I can store and treat water using the enclosed condom and water purification tablets. I can cut an endless array of objects using either the mini-Swiss Army Knife or enclosed jig saw blades. The light twine can assist in building shelter, or securing objects.

One thing to keep in mind, this kit is oriented to "Urban" (even "Surburban" or "Rural") scenarios, BUT it DOES NOT contain the same items were I to trek into the true wilderness.

You can, of course, substitute items in your own USMK to suit your specific climate or geography. What I have listed should simply serve as a guideline for you.

Don't forget to slip in a few folded $20 dollar bills! They might just get your out of a fiduciary jam.

One final note, this USMK is not intended to supplant your need to prepare a "Bugout Bag" or make other disaster preparations. It is simply a "hedge" to provide oneself some means of support in an emergency when separated from other supplies and/or support. It's small size and light weight makes carrying it everywhere simple. After all, we know not around which corner disaster lurks.

 

[Charles Gallo]

Originally posted by maury
I live in lower Manhattan.....close enough to what's become known as "Ground Zero" to have heard the first plane go by on 9-11. I used to carry a small kit, based in good part on information I've picked up here. Regretably, I have had to re-think just exactly what I need to have with me in my day-to-day living enviorment.

...snip

Maury,
I work in Midtown, and commute from Queens, so I know exactly where you are comming from (Plus I have a 1.5 mile walk to the train), but I came to a radically different conclusion than you did! I seriously beefed up my first aid kit - you said it's eather going to be life threating, or it can wait, and decided not to do anything for "Life Threating" - I went the other way - Bloodstopper trauma bandages, contrictors, etc. I also have the small stuff that I've always carried, but shifted some stuff to a pocket kit

I have the leatherman, gloves, knive, pry bar, 550 cord, flashlight (2 - a photon on my keys, a surefire in the backpack), but I also have water, food, change of underwear and socks, notepaper, sharpie markers, cylume sticks, boonie cap, 2m/440Mhz HT with built in scanner (I became a ham since 9/11), spare batteries for flashlights and HT, Folding j-pole for HT, "Hot rod" gain antenna for HT, a folding saw, clean rags in a ziplock bag, some spare plastic trash bags, etc. I even upgraded my pack (I now use a Eagle Becker Patrol Pack)

Basically, I carry 18 lbs of gear with me all the time - to meetings, to lunch, etc. The only place I don't bring the big bag is to the head, and my office is between the head and the emergency stairs.

Another few things I did - started taking refresher First Aid courses, and I joined NYC ARES - (Amateur Radio Emergency Service) - we help provide Emergency communications when other methods are not available. In NYC the prime served agency is the Red Cross.

 

[psy-ops]

Thanks Guncollector for the info,

But I did the search recently and already have your kit downloaded in my files. Hope you don't mind.
also e-mailed your kit to a few friends.

I do think it is a good addition to this thread


I guess some don't believe in mini's and some do.

 

[guncollector]

This was originally posted over at the late Razor's Redoubt website also. Thought it might be germane to the present conversation also.

Hope this helps.

Ron
GunCollector on Bladeforums.com

--- original message ---

3-Layered Urban Survival (UrbSurv) Kit approach.

'Why 3 layers', you ask?

Well, my job doesn't permit me to carry my ALICE pack of UrbSurv gear with me everywhere I go. And, I'd be willing to wager a good percentage of you couldn't carry one with you everywhere either. And even if you could carry your kit with you (i.e. in your car, truck), you wouldn't be carrying it with you into a restaurant, bank, or business appointment--thus having no immediate accessibility to your kit.

So, I hedge my survivability odds with a 3-layered approach as follows:
Layer 1) ALWAYS on my person
Layer 2) ALWAYS accessible (i.e., within "easy" reach)
Layer 3) OPTIMALLY accessible (i.e., available to me in best-case scenario)

So, to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:

Layer 1: always on my person
- bandana
- cell phone
- folding knife (emerson cqc-7a)
- glowring (on keychain) (by traser, 10 year radiance, and enough light to read by in pitch dark)
- info "cheat sheet": bank acct numbers, important tel. numbers, insurance acct./tel. info, etc.)
- money (plenty of cash)/ID/credit cards
- phone card, pre-paid
- photon-II micro light (on keychain)
- sas compass (in wallet, fully functional and only 5mm wide, 15mm diameter!)

Layer 2: always accessible, in my briefcase, coat pocket, etc.
- ham radio ht (yaesu vx-5r with spare li-batt & aa-batt)
- multi-tool (leatherman wave)
- survival mini-kit in altoids tin (container for following)
. butane lighter (bic mini)
. condom (for water storage)
. bandaids (9 assorted sizes)
. duct tape (2"x3" taped to outside, 10 ft. 1/2" strip "sealing" the tin around the perimeter)
. iodine sterilization pads (4 pc.)
. iodine water tablets (6 pc.)
. jig saw blade, high carbon (3" section)
. internal strands from paracord (5 - 7-ft. lengths)
. matches, waterproof (with striker) (7 pc.)
. paper (waterproof) (3 3"x5" pg.) & pencil
. reflective mylar (from kiddie balloon, taped to inside lid of
. tin top for use as signal mirror)

Layer 3: optimally accessible
- This is the "full" Urban Survival Kit that everyone should have at their ready--whether at home or in the office. I don't want to start another thread UrbSurv Kit-thread, so go do a web search on "Survival" and "Preparedness" to see a wealth of information on the subject.

It is my belief that most of us naturally without even thinking about it, approach our UrbSurv in this fashion.

Obviously, different climates, urban environments, etc. are going to make your requirement differ from mine. However, I feel the concept is sound.

Ron
(Ronguncollector -- guncollector from BF.com)

 

[V Shrake]

On the issue of first aid... That was one of the big reasons I recently reorganized my gear. I had a decent first aid kit in my ruck, but I don't (or can't) always have my ruck handy. So I switched some stuff around to make room for first aid gear in my EDC. First aid is about more than life-threatening injuries. It's about having pain meds for that blinding headache that saps your concentration in an already hectic environment. Or just to make yourself feel better on a "regular" day.

Since I can wear BDU pants, that allows me to have more gear than a person working in an office environment. That is, to have more gear ON ME at all times. My ruck may be in the truck, or I might take it with me, but suppose I decided to leave it behind while I ran a quick errand. Then TSHTF during that short errand, and I can't get back to my truck to grab my main gear bag. So long as I am dressed I have emergency food, a half quart of water (with an empty 1 liter Platypus bottle if I can fill it somewhere), shelter in the form of large garbage bags, a disposable poncho and Myklar blanket. I also have plenty of firestarting supplies and fishing/snare kits. Even in New York City there's Central Park. Wouldn't it be nice to have a hook and line to catch a fish, or snare a pigeon? Plus a knife or knives to prepare your catch, or to defend yourself? Repair items?

The real point of having ANY kind of kit on you is that no matter what you're carrying, it WILL be used. Perhaps not for its *intended* use, but aren't we supposed to think "outside the box"?

 

[Birkebeiner]

I wanted to put in a vote on the minikit side. I carry three with me normaly. My "tolls & materilas" kit has some things in it that most people would only consider appropriate for a wilderness setting. One is a smale fishing kit. As V Shrake pointed out, it can be used to catch birds and squirles as well. There are other uses as well, use your imagination. Don't let lables tie you to a specific use.
An example of a non-emergency use for monofiliment. I keep some spare at work. A friend who knows I like carrying "weird" things on me, ask me if I had any string on me one day. I told her "No" (I had used up my at woek supply and hadn't replaced it yet & wasn't ready to dive into my minikit for it yet) but that I did have some fishing line. She gladly excepted that & used it to make a mobile. As I said, not an emergency use, but I was able to help a freind. Well, to her it WAS an emergency, but she's weird.
As for snare wire, it can be VERY useful. To me, its right up there with duct tape and string. I once used it to help another friend reatach her muffler. I've used wire for hundreds of other repairs as well.
Sorry about my spelling, but I couldn't find the spell checker. If there is one. Dyslexia is a bear.

 

[Guyon]

I think that the lesson here is to always at least have the basics on you. But the points about location are relevant. Here's the kit I keep about me most of the time. It does fine for small needs in an urban evirons, and it would take me pretty far once I get off the asphalt. However, if I'm going into the woods, the stakes go way up, and the gear gets more heavy duty and more bountiful--particularly in the first aid category.

Anyhow, here's my Altoid's kit. I use the "Big Tin," which fits comfortably into my brief case and will slide into a pocket if needed. It's approximately 4x8x1 inches.

It contains: space blanket, water purification tablets, 10 feet snare wire, popping bug, assorted hooks (1 treble), assorted split shot, 2 swivels, 30 ft. 20 lb. test, mini Bic lighter, Swedish Army firestarter, 1 piece Fatwood tinder, 1 wax-impregnated cotton ball, waterproof matches and striker, 2 birthday candles, , 4 safety pins, pencil, 2 rubber bands, small compass, 6 feet aluminum foil, mini Fox 40 whistle, length of nylon twine, ½ hacksaw blade, survival saw, small sewing kit, 2 wound wipes, 5 medium bandaids, moleskin, 4 aspirin, 4 Motrin, 4 Tylenol, AAA Mini-Mag flashlight, Photon II (red), Leatherman Micra, Spartan SAK, fingernail clippers, ear plugs

The items that get used the most? headache medicine, flashlight, leatherman micra (scissors), and fingernail clippers. I have a knife about me all the time, so the SAK doesn't see much use unless I'm opening wine away from home.

 

[V Shrake]

Great kit, Guyon. If you want to fill all those little nooks and crannies, you might look at Tinder-Quik Tabs sold over at Brigade Quartermaster. They squish down really well, so they don't take up much space, but fluff up really well to catch a spark from our ferro rod. I always like to have as much tinder on me as I can, and *hate* wasted space. You could also use regular, small, cotton balls. They flatten down even more and catch a spark just as readily, but don't burn as long or as hot. Tinder-Quiks are great for mini-kits.

And for a water container you could look at the Platypus 1 liter bags. They would fold up pretty small in another pocket, to be filled at a later date. I just added a Platy bottle, and they beat ziplocks all to heck. Except for compactness, of course.

 

[Guyon]

You know, I should cram a couple of normal cotton balls in unused space. They really are the easiest way to start a spark fire. I have the one with wax (which burns a lot longer than the untreated), but there's room for more.

Also, I may add a normal unlubricated condom, which could function well for water transport. I just keep forgetting to buy them when I'm at a drug store or discount store.

I read a tip that they're also good for hunting on rainy days and for pulling up your gun into a stand (condom over the muzzle keeps out rain and/or dirt). While I'm on the subject of hunting tricks, a length of weed eater line makes a great cleaner for in the field carry. Just melt one end so that a small knob forms, slip your patch over the line till it catches on the knob, and run the whole thing through your barrel.

 

[V Shrake]

I've never messed with condoms for water transport for 2 reasons: they're awfully fragile, and I wonder whether it would be possible to fill one to capacity without a source of running water. Sure, you could fill one up like a water balloon with a garden hose, but how hard will it be to fill from a stream or pond? Anybody tried this? And once it's full, how do you close it? Carry it? Platypus bottles and ziplocks are bigger, but solve these problems; especially the Platypus. That's a really neat idea.