Thoughts on the "Which knife" question.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of never knowing what a good piece of equipment they COULD have had, if only they had asked the right questions, to the right people..

Although I agree with you in theory, I think for most people they just don't have the resources or time to do this. It takes a lot of time to build a knowledge base on something your not familiar with and get the "right" one. This is especially true because you often don't know the right way of using whatever your looking for. For example, i have gave my parents what i consider quality folders. Do they know how to sharpen them? no way. I have to do it. They are lucky enough to have me for that. Most people wont have a helpful knife knut on hand. To truly learn and appreciate knives you must make mistakes and learn what works for you. It takes time (and money!), but it is worth it if you use these skills or enjoy em
 
I have a GI pocketknife which has seen lots of use. I broke off the tip, but I got so much use out of it.

I also had a pilot survival knife, not as much use but well travelled. I misused it more than anything, pounding with the pommel, prying open crates, popping bands. I passed it on and it is still in use.

I upgraded to Rats even though I have a kbar and a kbar knock off. I suppose you could say I am going from a beer budget to a champagne budget. I like the feel and the nice sharp edges. Unless it is an emergency these knives are used properly and I have a nice edge on them.
 
I've often pointed out how the Mountain Men did everything -- hunt, skin, fight, cook, eat, woodcraft, etc. -- with basically two or three possible knife patterns (Bowie, patch, and Green River skinner) available to them. I'm sure they'd put most of us to shame with their outdoors skills, despite not having all sorts of knives to choose from. Why were they so skilled -- because they learned to use the knife they had for nearly everything.

I'm sure most of us -- I include myself foremost -- would be a lot better off if we had less knives, but learned to use them for everything. Instead we are always looking for the next great thing. That is great for the knife industry, but our skills would benefit if we just had a couple of knives we had to use for everything.

That is why RAT is so good; well made basic style knives that you can use for everything.
 
I'm not advocating going out with the cheapest POS you can find, I am pointing out that you can make darn near any knife work. Example, most would say a Ka-Bar USMC is a poor field knife, yet I used one for almost 20 years,a nd thought it was great -- because I learned to use it, not make it work like another knife.

The post was aimed more at the new guys, who usually are the ones agonizing over knife purchases. Sometimes it's RC5 VS RC6, or RC3 vs RC4, or RC[whatever] vs Becker[whatever]. My point is, buy the one you like the best, or looks the best to you. Because, in the end, unless you really plan on doing something stupid (like doing the stuff you see in destruction tests on a daily basis), the knife will work.

One guy mentioned he's on a 6" knife kick, even though he "knows" that isn't the best size. Really? How do you "know" that? "Best" is defined by the user, not a consensus of committee. For instance, I can do anything with an RC6 that someone else can do with an RC4 -- same grind, geometry and thickness, just two inches more of blade -- but I can do it better with the RC6 than I can do it with the RC4 because of the scale size and geometry on the 6. So, maybe a 6" knife is the best -- again, depending on the user.
 
Dont think I have ever heard of them... Pictures?:)

You've probably seen them floating around:

The CAK:
20CAK01.jpg


The R-10:
R101.jpg


The rig:
Quickdraw01.jpg
 
interesting thread...

one thing that comes to my mind, is...if you can beleive this, not everyone is knife buffs:eek:...LOL
so, not everyone knows the "models" or the particulars of any said knife.

a user may have an idea in his/her mind of what they want...ex: 6" not too heavy blade etc etc...blada, blada...you get the idea, and desire input.
 
I would have to say I agree with CPL P on this, but I think it's a sign of the times.

Many knife styles developed regionally. The Bowie and the Green River are good examples in the states. So is the Ka-Bar. Probably one of the most used knives of all time. Mostly in adverse conditions. Is it perfect no, but it works well. I personally still love mine. It's versatile. Failure many times is not related to the style but to the steel and heat treat.

But the marketing machine has taken hold. Telling folks you need a knife for every use. Round points, clip points, drop points, tanto points. spear points, and thats just the tip. The word Tactical has sold millions of knives, most junk.

It's everywhere, go buy a loaf of bread, peanut butter and jelly. I'll bet there are close to 50 choices of each. Can one jelly be that much better than the next?
 
One guy mentioned he's on a 6" knife kick, even though he "knows" that isn't the best size. Really? How do you "know" that? "Best" is defined by the user, not a consensus of committee. For instance, I can do anything with an RC6 that someone else can do with an RC4 -- same grind, geometry and thickness, just two inches more of blade -- but I can do it better with the RC6 than I can do it with the RC4 because of the scale size and geometry on the 6. So, maybe a 6" knife is the best -- again, depending on the user.

Hi Cpl P. Good point. I was the one that said that, however maybe I can explain it better. I've been making spoons, traps and other bushcrafting items lately and while I love the feel of my RC-6, BK-7 or any other 6" blade, I always grab a 3 or 4" blade because it is easier to work with. Thats not to say I dont love having my bigger blades for other tasks, but the lion share of cutting sees the smaller blades as king.
I also find that those smaller blades disappear on my belt as opposed to the larger ones. This is really true when I go hunting and have my knife on my belt.
BTW CPL P, I love your balduric belt. Where did you purchase it? I just ordered a BAS and was thinking of carrying it similar.
 
But the marketing machine has taken hold. Telling folks you need a knife for every use. Round points, clip points, drop points, tanto points. spear points, and thats just the tip. The word Tactical has sold millions of knives, most junk.

In part that is a product of the societal machine telling folks you don't need a knife for anything. I actually watched a cooking show the other day where the cook (I refuse to call that woman a chef) used scissors :eek: to cut everything up.

Companies in this business have admittedly been forced to market to an ever shrinking population. Their audience is among the few that listen and because they have a natural proclivity for the idea of the knife, they are a little bit more ready to buy into the hype.

This is why we have the steel of the month type club. Not because it actually generates all that much real performance attributes. Its really expensive to re-tool at the factory to produce the same model in the next sexy steel, but probably less expensive then retooling for a whole new knife plus new steel. However, if you just nudge ever so slightly this idea of a new knife (or same knife) in a new steel, you can get many of your hardcore customers to buy it. This is better than planned obsolescent.

Then of course the same audience are all too eager to buy this thing which replicates their last knife so they can make 500 slices into a sheets of standardized card stock (you are after all supporting the business depot economy here too) comparing their first knife with the next knife. This way, when knife A dulls at slice 358 and new knife B which only cost $189 (well it was just released and will cost $132 next year) dulls at slice 376 they feel fully completed. Well partly completed, until Knife C comes out in ZDP 6000. Man, I hear great things about this new steel that is just on the horizon. Although ZDP 6000 technology isn't fully refined yet, it is rumored that you will have to increase the card stock slicing test to 525 slices. I for one can't wait.

I think I'm now going to start posting in my favorite sub-forum and start calling out all the custom makers who are still use those old fashion, CHEAP, tool steels and ask them why they charge so much for a hand made, one of a kind knife that contains inferior steel which has been around for 100 years. I mean what the hell? Are they just plain greedy? There simply isn't any excuse not to make a knife out of ZDP 6000, even if it isn't actually available yet. ;)

Oh we are all a little guilty in this. Not just the manufacturers who are corporations trying to survive a two fold attack of bad economy plus bad press, but also OCD-knife consumers who may have forgotten why they bought knife A in the first place.

At least RatCutlery are honest in all this. They simply stimulate our purchase reflex by offering the same knife in a new color. No promises of performance enhancement there. Just the pressing concern of whether the sheath of my new rat clashes with my ultra-tactical, molle webbing covered gunslinger series bag. I wonder if using some of that orange paracord as bootlaces will help integrate my new forum knife into my outfit??? What do you guys think?
 
I actually watched a cooking show the other day where the cook (I refuse to call that woman a chef) used scissors :eek: to cut everything up.


Ken,

You are worrying me. I want you to go outside today. Try to get more sunshine. I know it's tough up there this time of year, but get outside!!!


:p
 
The thing that really gets me, on any forum, is when someone asks you "what do you think about product X?" and then goes on for 3 days telling you how wrong you are.

Also, orange paracord makes great bootlaces. I was thinking about getting all new orange gear to match my knives though. Now I feel kinda toolish about that. guess I'll have get half now and mix and match it.
 
Also, orange paracord makes great bootlaces. I was thinking about getting all new orange gear to match my knives though. Now I feel kinda toolish about that. guess I'll have get half now and mix and match it.

Hey, I never meant to try and come off as condescending or anything. I was poking a lot of fun at myself. However, a little bit of googling and I found a great outfit that really works with the ratpack knife....I'm mean it is perfect :D

Pumpkinoutfit.jpg
 
Hey, I never meant to try and come off as condescending or anything. I was poking a lot of fun at myself. However, a little bit of googling and I found a great outfit that really works with the ratpack knife....I'm mean it is perfect :D

I simply lumped myself in with that self observation :)

and that outfit is PERFECT for around here. that's totally tactical pumpkin patch gear there. Or if the man is after you, just sit down on someone's lawn, bham! you just disappeared! perfect! I'm ordering two.
 
Great post, Cpl, and some great responses, too.

Makes us ask ourselves what a knife actually is, what it’s good for, and what we actually need. The answers to that obviously vary from person to person. I’ve been on BF long enough to know that there are whole segments of our community here that view these questions from completely different places.

For some, it’s all about the steel: they’re wholly absorbed in the characteristics of the steels, and will debate them endlessly. They may not use the knives themselves for much of anything other than testing stain resistance, how sharp it will get, and edge holding. They’re happy doing this and, hey, someone has to do it, because it really does inform the rest of us. The actual design of the knife and its usefulness in the real world are secondary considerations. I read their posts, and I’ve learned a lot from them: it never hurts to know about that kind of thing.

For others, it’s all about the name on the blade, and collecting the latest and greatest from certain makers (“Oh, look, **** has a new blade out! This one has an extra scallop in the handle and the choil is radiused an extra .0001 of an inch. Where’s my checkbook — I’ve gotta have one. They’re only $300 more than the last one.) These people get really into the minutiae and collect name brands just for perceived rarity. These are the “If it’s not a ****, it ain’t sh**” crowd. Pretty smug and superior, but, hey, they’re happy, so what the heck do I know.

For yet others, it’s a search for their “Goldilocks” knife: not too big, not too small, but just right. I think this is where most of us fall. We’ll try production knives and customs from makers that we trust, looking for the perfect blend of steel and design because we know that there is no perfect knife, but we want to try them all anyway. We’re just as happy doing this as the people mentioned above: we’re into knives, but haven’t found the perfect one yet. The search is fun though.

For still others, they haven’t a clue about all the things that we enlightened think make up a good knife. They go to Wally World and pick up whatever’s on sale, and looks good to them at the time. They’ll use it day to day on the farm or hunting and sometimes they’ll get something that fulfills their needs and be happy. Sometimes, they won’t. Either way, they probably wouldn’t understand we knife knuts.

Then there are those of us who use knifes for whatever practical purpose is important to us. We pay attention to the steel, because we know that steel is much better than, say, cheddar cheese, for a cutting edge, but we don’t get wrapped up in the latest super steels; we just want a good steel that we can sharpen and will hold an edge fairly well. We want a size that’s easy to carry, isn’t too heavy, and works well for most of our cutting tasks. We want a good design that sits well in the hand and works for whittling, skinning, chopping, what have you. Some of these knives may be really expensive, some may be dirt cheap, but they’re working knives that we trust.

As for me, I just like knives. Being on a laughably small government pension, I can’t afford to try them all out. I’m a pretty practical guy though, and I know that there are some really good knives out there for not much money. I’m thinking of things like RATs, Beckers and, yes, the new Condors here. The RATs and Beckers are well treated 1095, and the Condor’s are 1075. They’re not fancy super steels; they’re not flashy; you don’t have to join a cult to own one: they’re just good, tough, everyday knives that — for my purposes — are as good as anything out there. I’d trust my life to a Becker or a RAT without hesitation. Those who would tell me that their $800 **** is a truly superior knife for anything other than cinder blocks would have to prove it to me.

Way back when, I took a course in flint knapping, and learned to make knives, arrowheads and stuff. I never was really any good at it, but it did teach me something pretty important: steel’s better. Along the way I’ve learned that some steels are better than others, but a well treated 10 series steel is just fine for my uses.

Which brings us to the question of which knife? The one that works for you, of course.
 
BTW CPL P, I love your balduric belt. Where did you purchase it? I just ordered a BAS and was thinking of carrying it similar.

I had it custom made. The maker hasn't posted since Feb of last year, so I don't even know if he does them anymore.

I'm sure there's plenty of sheathmakers that may be willing to make one up for you. Unfortunately, with all HIs being so different from one another, you have to send your baby off and pace a hole in the carpet waiting for it to be done.

OR, learn to do it yourself. I'm thinking of getting into leatherwork myself. Of course, then I'll get back into traditional canvas packs, and start down that spiral again. . .
 
Good comments dawsonbob! Its always fun to poke fun at folks whose tastes don't match your own. The problems come when folks get serious about that. The spirit of the OP is a good one. There are a tonne of great blades out there. How fortunate for us to have that choice available to us.
 
Good comments dawsonbob! Its always fun to poke fun at folks whose tastes don't match your own. The problems come when folks get serious about that. The spirit of the OP is a good one. There are a tonne of great blades out there. How fortunate for us to have that choice available to us.

Touche, Ken. I didn't really mean it as a put-down, though after re-reading it, I can see where it did come across that way. I guess it sounded more pointed than I meant it to be. Yes, folks do take their choices seriously, and I've pointed out that very thing in several of my posts, so I should know better.

Mostly, though, I was trying to point out that we here on BF are somewhat segmented in what we focus on. We're all knife knuts, but what's important about a knife varies from person to person.

There are a lot of good knives out there, and we all make individual choices based on what's important to us, and we tend to defend those choices. For me, I don't want a cheap POS that will fall apart the first time it comes out of the sheath, but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars more than I perceive the knife to be worth for my uses, either. I just want a good, workable knife that I see as a good value. Other people have more fun doing things other than the things I do, and that's fine. As Mark Twain once said, "it's the difference that makes a horse race."
 
Honestly, a knife needs to be able to cut and all the other stuff is just added bonuses and marketing. Why do people spend so much $ on knife b when knife a can cut just as well? It's a hobby. Say someone has a hobby for fixing up classic cars and driving them around. It's cheaper and more efficient to drive newer cars so why would they waste time and money fixing up classic cars to drive around? It's their hobby. I'd love to find just one or two knives to own, but once I do I'll go looking for one or two more.

People focus too much on which is "the best" and don't find out for themselves. This doesn't apply for just knives, it seems like people have to have the best thing out there or they feel inadequate. Pretty much everything has to compromise one thing to be better at another. Obviously one knife could be great at slicing but have a terribly thin blade. A knife could have a scalpel like edge, yet lose it after cutting one thing. I think people would rather come here to a forum and ask "which knife?" than spend time researching. People hear good things about the knives and then just stop by and ask which one is the best. It's ignorance, and they're just looking for "the best" without having to learn anything.
 
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