Thoughts on this blade finish?

[Fletch Helical]

While spending some time tonight with what seems to be my new nightly ritual (sanding blades) I had a thought. Chances are it's not the greatest of ideas or else I figured I'd see more of it being done. So I figured I'd present it here and bounce it off you guys.

My thought was to make a blade with a satin finish. Then using something like that polishing tip on a dremel polishing half the blade to a mirror finish. I mean going somewhere between the edge and spine and making some kind of design/pattern. Almost like a quasi-katana look for example..... If that makes any sense.

So there is the idea... Now tell me where the flaw in my thinking is

 

[unky_gumbi]

You are using a high carbon steel right? the higher the polish the harder it is for rust to get a foot hold. Atleast that is how I understand it. I am going full mirror on mine, I thought about cold blueing but I had that idea shot down with some convincing arguments.

Lifwe of a new knife maker; file, sand,sand,sand,wait sand,sand,sand,sand. all punctuated with millions of questions, thats how its going for me

 

[Fletch Helical]

You are using a high carbon steel right?

Which knife?

The one I'm working on with Stacy is a stainless (ATS 34), the one I'm doing on my own is 1084, the one I forged I don't even remember. Aldo handed me a piece of steel and said "stick that in the forge". I'll have to have him remind me, at the rate I'm going I'm going to have to keep a journal of what blade is what steel.

But I was just more or less thinking as an overall idea. Not something I'm going to do right away, if at all. I just don't think I've ever seen it done on many/any custom knives and was wondering why it's not done.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You can't do an adequate high polish with a Dremel.

 

[Fletch Helical]

You can't do an adequate high polish with a Dremel.

Knew there had to be something I was missing

 

[Los Angeles]

I would recommend the high polish first, then mask it and add the texture through etching or bead blasting. You can get really creative and detailed with your pattern.

Contrast in texture is something that very few knifemakers play with.

 

[Fletch Helical]

I would recommend the high polish first, then mask it and add the texture through etching or bead blasting. You can get really creative and detailed with your pattern.

Contrast in texture is something that very few knifemakers play with.

Ooooh there's an idea. I don't have a bead blaster though, but found a good set of plans on an etcher. Can you get a satin-like look with an etcher.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You can do a selective finish by using a resist and ferric chloride on a bright polished blade.

 

[JTknives]

I must say that back in the day i compleatley polished a blade this way. it took a hell of a long time but it worked.

 

[Will Leavitt]

Firstly let me say I've only finished SS blades when I was an apprentice to a local stock removal guy and that was a while back.

You have to a have a high degree of finish before you polish the blade or you'll wind up with smears and and a wavy appearance to the blade finish, not a good thing. It looks exactly what it is.... a half done blade finish.

In my opinion (and I guess the opinion of my customers) a nice hand rubbed satin finish is a sign of quality, just like a finely mirrored out blade. They appreciate and most understand that a good satin finish is indicative of patience and hard work from the maker.

You're spending days polishing out a blade? I'm not understanding your process. Even from a second cut file finish it only takes me a few hours of hand sanding to get to a nice 400x or 600x finish.

Some pointers if you didn't know and a reminder to people that don't know:
-Hard flat sanding block
-Lubrication, I use baby oil, others use water, WD40, Simple green....
-Sandpaper is like toilet paper, toss it and move on to clean paper. Don't waste your time trying to coax a few more swipes with it, if it ain't cutting, it ain't going to cut better later.
-Good lighting and I use an opti-visor thingy to look for scratches.
-Use alternating angles when changing grit, I do one grit at about a 45 angle then go tip to plunge on the next grit, make sure all scratches are gone from the previous grit before moving on.

Be patient, you can get frustrated then a couple more passes and the finish will POP.

 

[unky_gumbi]

-Sandpaper is like toilet paper, toss it and move on to clean paper. Don't waste your time trying to coax a few more swipes with it, if it ain't cutting, it ain't going to cut better later.

If your toilet paper is like sand paper buy better stuff

I agree though Is swap out the paper often and the guys at work are always grabbing it because they think there is some more use out of it. Only thing I do is on that last piece after I am sure all the scratches from the last one are gone I run it a little longer. It could just be a mind trick I am playing on myself, but it seems to make the next grit smooth out a little faster. My theory is that I have worn the grit down to something in between the current grit and the next grit.

 

[Will Leavitt]

If your toilet paper is like sand paper buy better stuff

I was in the US Army for 16 1/2 years.... we used to call it "John Wayne wipe," we also used it to remove paint from tanks, grip tape on APC ramps just about anything but wiping our....

 

[Allen Newberry]

My thought was to make a blade with a satin finish. Then using something like that polishing tip on a dremel polishing half the blade to a mirror finish. I mean going somewhere between the edge and spine and making some kind of design/pattern. Almost like a quasi-katana look for example..... If that makes any sense.

From what I have seen when they do that finish on katanas it is usually on really cheap swords in an attempt to make it look like it has a hamon when it doesn't.

 

[Fletch Helical]

You're spending days polishing out a blade? I'm not understanding your process. Even from a second cut file finish it only takes me a few hours of hand sanding to get to a nice 400x or 600x finish.

Really!? I must be doing something wrong then. Well I'm not polishing a blade at the moment. I have 2 knives I'm sanding down to get ready for HT. But it seems to take me quite a while just to get a good looking 120 finish on it. There always seem to be some scratches that I wind up chasing for hours trying to get out.... Most of which seem to love to be around the plunge line area.

I have a block of Bocote that Stacy sent up to me when he sent my blade to work on. I've been using that, cutting paper to fit and holding it in place with some thick rubber bands. I also have a small piece of square steel stock that I'll wrap the paper around and use at times as well. I usually use that near the plunge line area. I've been dry sanding and figured wet sanding was usually reserved more for the higher grits.

I haven't actually done anything on a post HT blade yet but if you guys are able to get a blade from a file to a 400 grit finish in a matter of hours I'm apparently riding the short bus to knife making school.

 

[Halecky Knives]

I use stones to rough out and polish the blades, maybe paper at the end 1000 or 1200 grit. The stones break down as you use them always giving you a sharp surface to work with.
A personal question for Fletch Helical, hopefully not out of bounds, are you right or left helical?
Keep that string waxed

 

[artmichalek]

I would recommend the high polish first, then mask it and add the texture through etching or bead blasting. You can get really creative and detailed with your pattern.

Contrast in texture is something that very few knifemakers play with.

I've never done this on a knife blade, but I've done it on some other parts with sandpaper. It really does work best if you polish first. I mask with scotch tape because it's very thin, then fold the sand paper (600 grit) around the edge of an xacto knife to get right up to the edge of the tape. For a blade I would stick to a simple pattern. Something like polished grinds/satin flats (or the opposite) on a saber ground blade would look nice. The difference in surface texture is too subtle for anything really intricate. It will just get washed out when light hits it.

 

[Patrickknives]

Learning to sand is something that every knife maker must go through, all I can say is from experience is following the guidelines provided especially the last is the key to good sanding in much less time. If you are chasing scratches for hours I would focus on Will's last point, when you try to move up a grit the scratches from a previous grit is all you should see. If not, go back down.

On a side note I was really interesting in the "Mobile 3" recommendation. I tried some regular 10-40 and liked what I saw, less messy and worked pretty well. I then tried some expensive synthetic motor oil that I use in my motorcycle and really like it, keeps the work surface clear so I can see what is happening and lubs the paper well and not much mess since I only use a few drops.

The knife gods have spoken, chisle these words in stone and get to sanding.

Sanding according to LEAVITT
Some pointers if you didn't know and a reminder to people that don't know:
-Hard flat sanding block
-Lubrication, I use baby oil, others use water, WD40, Simple green....
-Sandpaper is like toilet paper, toss it and move on to clean paper. Don't waste your time trying to coax a few more swipes with it, if it ain't cutting, it ain't going to cut better later.
-Good lighting and I use an opti-visor thingy to look for scratches.
-Use alternating angles when changing grit, I do one grit at about a 45 angle then go tip to plunge on the next grit, make sure all scratches are gone from the previous grit before moving on.

 

[Fletch Helical]

A personal question for Fletch Helical, hopefully not out of bounds, are you right or left helical?

I haven't shot feathers for years, and to be honest I never saw a difference between left or right wing. So it was whatever the shop had in stock at the time . Now I use Quick Spins and get more spin that I would with a full helical anyway. Amazing how much changes in that industry Shoot straight :thumbup:

 

[Fletch Helical]

If you are chasing scratches for hours I would focus on Will's last point, when you try to move up a grit the scratches from a previous grit is all you should see. If not, go back down.

I do that, it's trying to get all the scratches out from files and heavier grits in the first place that takes so much time for me.

 

[PIndelicato]

I have found that with each successive blade I have done (I think I'm up to #8 or so now), the sanding has for the most part gotten progressively faster and easier. The earliest ones literally took many hours over days, which the most recent ones more in the ballpark of a few hours.

Aside from some improvements in my sanding technique with experience, I believe the biggest difference has been in how flat the bevels are (or aren't). My first blade was filed by hand and took an eternity to sand as did my first ground blades. My most recent knives were a piece of cake in comparison to sand and they also had vastly improved grinds. I would bet if sanding is taking days, flatness in the bevels is playing at least a small part.