Thoughts regarding Kershaw's new Knockout...(or other lefty compatible folders)

[kestrel57]

Finally selling! I don't have a KERSHAW (they had precious few lefty folders until this year) but do have a new ZT 350TS which is over-built but a bit heavy.

I'm more familiar with Benchmade and Spyderco and that was primarily years ago. Price/quality-wise (subjective question) how do Spyderco and Kershaw compare. It seems Spyderco might use better steel. And how does the customer seervice compare? Tx.

P.S. Does Kershaw make a good, short fixed knife? (I'm trying to learn and see some of the benefits of fixed blades over folders --- including price).

 

[phrenik]

I would say the CS for both are comparable. Both top notch, I will say without hesitation best in the business. At least they have been for me. And I have used them [more so for Spyderco actually] And have had no issues, if anything just gushes of praise on this front. And even if I did get a warranty problem knife, obviously there is some disappointment/sadness like everyone would be right? But I would not be in despair like you may be with some other companies because I know they back their knives up and have such amazing customer service. It really is more like having to take a car in to get a free oil change vs getting rear ended. The one thing to note is [not sure if it matters to you], is from what I have seen + my friends experience, KAI's turn around on knives sent in is around the 2 week mark. All my exchanges with Spyderco warranty have been around the 4 week mark [actually the quickest they got a knife back to me was 3 weeks, and I have sen a knife in about 5 times, 2 was to get my knives sharpened before I had a sharpmaker]

Quality wise, I have only started to get into kershaws more budget line ups [RJ1, brawler, hoping for a knockout, and few others], and ZT's since last year. I have played around + borrowed the 350, the 301, and 0400 from a friend. And own the 560 and tilt [thank you Thomas!], and hopefully the last of KAI's triple threat, the 777... for this year at least =]. Their fit and finish is comparable to Spyderco's in most cases in regards to the knives I have had in hand + played around with so far [again I have a limited bubble of experience with them, being in the 2 yr mark + a total of 10 I think KAI products, VS Spyderco about 5 years + over 30 knives]. One thing to add, is some of the ZT's do seem to have a longer "break in" period to find that sweet spot, although it may have just been my encounters

I could keep going, but just in general they are comparable, 2 sides to a coin in some sense. For me, I have gotten a lot of manuals via the spydie side, and a lot of assisted love from the KAI side, not that KAI doesn't have great manual folders or that they aren't if you take the torsion bar out. They are great [and my friends do carry some as de-assisted manuals]. Its just kind of the main difference in my opinion, and had been more tanks from the ZT side, and less tank like folders on the spydie side. Although the two have been intertwining these areas.

----

Bottom line, both have great price + quality, both offer a HUGE range of budget to high end knives, both give the consumers the pleasure of purchasing limited run/sprint run knives that test their prowess and let us consumers feel the luxury that technology allows, both have the best customer service [its like the costco and amazon of the knife world, generally put], both spend time on the forums to help out their customers. Basically, you will not be disappointed.

edit: regarding the fixed blade, not sure about a short fixed blade. But I do know they have quite a few fixed blades on both zt/kershaw
http://www.kershawknives.com/searchresults.php?search_by=knifefeatures&search_value=20&brand=kershaw
http://www.kershawknives.com/searchresults.php?search_by=knifefeatures&search_value=20&brand=zt

Check those out for reference.

edit 2 [+ some re-wording of the same paragraph for better flow- its late ]: Hopefully this helps a little. I noticed your points for a lefty, and your title re: the knockout. But some of your sentences seemed to be aimed in general, so that is how I answered it. A

 

[aquaman67]

Finally selling! I don't have a KERSHAW (they had precious few lefty folders until this year) but do have a new ZT 350TS which is over-built but a bit heavy.

I'm more familiar with Benchmade and Spyderco and that was primarily years ago. Price/quality-wise (subjective question) how do Spyderco and Kershaw compare. It seems Spyderco might use better steel. And how does the customer seervice compare? Tx.

P.S. Does Kershaw make a good, short fixed knife? (I'm trying to learn and see some of the benefits of fixed blades over folders --- including price).

I'm with you on many fronts. I too have been a BM fan mostly because of the Left hand carry option. And I'm also looking more at Spyderco and Kershaw.

Kershaw has a new knife coming out soon called the Cryo. It can be carried Lefty and is a collaboration with Rick Hinderer. It's looks similar to the ZT line up.The smaller one is being released soon but a larger one should be released by the end of the year.

I recently did a thread on Kershaw lefty carry and got some other recommendations. Maybe you'll find something you like as well.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/966097-Is-there-a-Lefty-List

We lefties need to make our wishes known. After all, are a couple extra holes on the other side a big deal?

 

[SpyKers]

Finally selling! I don't have a KERSHAW (they had precious few lefty folders until this year) but do have a new ZT 350TS which is over-built but a bit heavy.

I'm more familiar with Benchmade and Spyderco and that was primarily years ago. Price/quality-wise (subjective question) how do Spyderco and Kershaw compare. It seems Spyderco might use better steel. And how does the customer seervice compare? Tx.

P.S. Does Kershaw make a good, short fixed knife? (I'm trying to learn and see some of the benefits of fixed blades over folders --- including price).

That is a very interesting question you posed about price vs quality. I own Spydies and quite a few Kershaws (hence the name "SpyKers") across multiple price points (low to high). In my experience starting with the imports (specifically China), their quality is very comparable. Both companies use 8cr13mov on their Chinese line and similar handle materials. The only difference to me is that Kershaw gives you the added value of SpeedSafe where as most (if not all) Spydies in this price range are manual. +1 for Kershaw

With folders that are of higher value, this is where it becomes a little tricky. I'll start with the 30 to 70 dollar range.

For Spyderco, their most popular knives at that price point are the Ladybug, Dragonfly, Native, Delica, and Endura ((A few others as well). These knives vary in country of origin (Delica/Endura:Japan and Native:USA). They also vary in blade steels. The Native is probably the single best way to test out s30v while the Delica and Endura use the Japanese wonder steel VG-10. These steels are simply awesome, at least that is my data point (+1 for Spyderco). The downside is that to achieve these price points with steels, Spyderco uses FRN handle scales (fancy plastic). They are great and sturdy feeling.... But still plastic. On the otherside of the fence, you have Kershaw. Kershaw has a whole bucket of knives from the 30 to 70 dollar range that vary wildly. All of my Kershaw knives at this price point are USA made (+1 for Kershaw). Kershaw doesn't really have a bunch of plastic handled options outside of the Zing (discontinued) in this price range that I'm aware of. Most of them are either g-10, aluminum, 410 stainless, or a combination of these materials (add tractec inserts for some). Kershaw has the better handle materials at this price point IMHO. Where Kershaw gives up a little is their use of 14c28n. Now, don't get me wrong. I LOVE this steel. It is a great value and takes a wicked edge, but it is not as good as s30v or vg-10. However some dudes here have probably bought a Blur s30v for less than 70 (I haven't, so it's my data point ) Once again, kershaw offers SpeedSafe in this bracket.

From 70 on up, the lines become increasingly blurred... At this price point, you are getting a very nice folder which ever direction you choose. Both companies have plenty of options and their build qualities are both top notch. They use similar steels, handle materials, etc...

I always felt Kershaw gave you more options up to $70 dollars. After that price point, I think it's a toss up. But your question is about price vs value. If you interpret options as value, you'll love Kershaw. If you love vg-10 and don't mind the handle materials, you'll love Spyderco (speaking in generalities). Quality wise, it's a toss up... They're both very, very good.

In regards to customer service, I've used both minimally. Kershaw sent me a pocket clip no questions asked for my Skyline and they still have my Knockout (I'll post my report on it when it returns). Spyderco sent me a clip for my Delica but charged me for the cot plus shipping and handling. It was minor cost, but still not free. Keep in mind, this is my LIMITED experience with these companies customer service/warranty.

In regards to your itching for a short fixed blade.... I'd need more info. Shun, ZT, and Kershaw all make "fixed blades". Your purpose for the blade is far more important. Kitchen, outdoors/camping, hunting/skinning, etc. without a purpose, people would simply be throwing knives at you whether they fit your needs or not.

 

[dogboye]

IMO, Kershaw give the most for the least money of the three. Quality of workmanship seems to me to be easily as good as Spyderco or Benchmade. In most respects, materials are as good as or better than Spyderco or Benchmade, for the money. I generally find most of the Spyderco offerings less aesthetically pleasing than either Benchmade or Kershaw. I believe Benchmade has a superior lock available over most of the dollar range (axis lock), for most applications. Certain applications the predominantly frame-locked Kershaw/ZT are far superior than the axis, however (cleaning hunting/blood and guts, while still providing a rock-solid lock, the frame-lock cannot be beat, in a folder).

I personally don't place a huge premium on what steels a knife has. I've only found two steels out of the probably 20+ I have tried that I really dislike, and I don't think any of these three companies still use either of those steels. I shop based on lock, cost, and aesthetics, for the most part (and for the most part, in that order of priority). For most of my uses, a sharp piece of steel is a sharp piece of steel. Some take more frequent sharpening, some take less. None of my folders get really beat on.

I have not ever had a knife that was better than the 560, when you roll in materials, workmanship, lock, capability, and aesthetics (although I've never had a Sebenza... but after the 560, the Sebenza is no longer a grail). As far as workmanship, lock, and aesthetics, though, the Kershaw Shallot is dang-near the 560's equal, IMO. And it really doesn't give up a whole lot in materials. While priced only about 1/5 the cost of the 560. That is quite a spread in cost in an American-made knife of extremely good quality and materials. I do not see that in either Benchmade or Spyderco, but I'm much less familiar with Spyderco than I am with Benchmade.

I guess I've rambled enough. I'm extremely impressed with all three companies, and I think the choice is largely based on personal preferences.

 

[kestrel57]

Great answers. I learned alot. I agree that Kershaw makes some high value knives. A Kershaw had (has) Elmax steel that is found in the 560 (maybe they were testing it). I agree with almost all that is written. If the best qualities of Spyderco and Benchmade could only be merged! (not to dis Kershaw or Zero Tolerance.)

In my mind, though, the Sebenza is a bit better than the 560. The 560 has many innovations but, to some, two faults. One is that the lock forces one to be very careful about where one puts one's fingers so as not to further engage the detent (which is already too strong IMHO.) The second issue is aggressive gimping hear the flipper. It's sharp and should be curved so as not to take away from the opening experience of hard cutting when pushing down in the blade (one's thumb). No such issues with the Sebenza. Still, the 560 is awesome, increidlby light and well balanced. Elmax seems real good, too.

 

[SpyKers]

Great answers. I learned alot. I agree that Kershaw makes some high value knives. A Kershaw had (has) Elmax steel that is found in the 560 (maybe they were testing it). I agree with almost all that is written. If the best qualities of Spyderco and Benchmade could only be merged! (not to dis Kershaw or Zero Tolerance.)

In my mind, though, the Sebenza is a bit better than the 560. The 560 has many innovations but, to some, two faults. One is that the lock forces one to be very careful about where one puts one's fingers so as not to further engage the detent (which is already too strong IMHO.) The second issue is aggressive gimping hear the flipper. It's sharp and should be curved so as not to take away from the opening experience of hard cutting when pushing down in the blade (one's thumb). No such issues with the Sebenza. Still, the 560 is awesome, increidlby light and well balanced. Elmax seems real good, too.

I would probably not compare a $260 -$300 dollar knife to a $450 dollar knife IMHO

I don't truly think these knives are competing with each other for the same task. I would consider the ZT far more tactical than the Sebenza. A better question might be what knives compare to the 0560 below $300?

 

[sticktodrum]

One is that the lock forces one to be very careful about where one puts one's fingers so as not to further engage the detent (which is already too strong IMHO.)

A non-existent issue if you're a lefty (which I am). Woot!

 

[kestrel57]

I'll tkae your word for it fellow southpay (If you get a Sebenza the lock is moved ot the other side.) But we're trained to make due, aren't we? Say, using a telephone or writing long hand.

 

[sticktodrum]

I was looking at the DPx HEST, and noticed that they offer a "lefty" version, with the scales reversed and all that. I'm fine either way, and my ZT 0550 works just fine with the lock side facing up in my left hand. My fingers rest on the G10 scale, and it opens easily since there's no pressure on the lock bar. Of course the nice orange scale isn't as easily seen then, but it's mostly for me.

 

[kestrel57]

Hey sticktodrum:

Someone at a big dealer took the pocket Hest on a trip to South America. With a group but some time in rural areas. He was very impressed. It cut everything he tried to cut. I have seen it for $175 on several sites in the lefty version. I've heard it's very well made and uses the best made D2 (well, not Dozier quality I'm sure!).

I returned my ZT560 recently --- well it isn't mine as I returned it. It was, indeed, loosening up and an extremely impressive knife. But I couldn't take a chance and even cut myself trying new opening techniques. I'm sure it's my fault, not the knife's. (I will probably still get it, but in brown; perhaps the new one will have a less strong detent.) I could see this knife lasting 10 years with no issue.

So, received $260 back and bought a Contego for virtually half the money. It arrived today and opening it is a dream. It's early, but so far no rough gimping (I hear Benchmade toned it down after complaints) or rough G-10 that hurt my hand and I have strong but soft hands. The blade is gorgeous (the knife looks OK, not terrific) and I tested it on my arm hairs. For a thick blade (or any blade) it really cuts! Maybe because it's M4 (64 Rockwell but unlikely to break or chip). Now I have the other $130 left from the price of the 560 to buy another nice knife. This will take some thought. Maybe a Spyderco --- but which? Possibly a leftie Military. Or a Gayle Bradley. Or a Sage 1 as a gentleman's folder so to speak. I have nice Enduras but it's not the same as a 560 by any means (or even a Contego). Have a tenacious which is great for the price but cheap steel and will probably become a beater. I also want a Para II but was told it's not leftie friendly --- still I know lefties that adapt to it and use it. The Manix is a bit thick but a nice price --- I'd love it with S90V as I believe some have it. Carbon fiber would be nice, too!

I really loved the 560 despite sending it back. There is something about it. I truly loved the strength yet relatively light weight. The balance and comfort was to be admired. ZT deserves some credit for such a nice knife and taking some chances. Not quite as sharp as the Contego but better in several ways.

Emerson offers three lefty knives. (They'll put a carrying clip for a lefty in any knife you want for $25 --- somehow the CQC 13 (small and wicked bowie) has caught my eye in the pictures. I've heard they're very sharp but they seem high priced for what you get --- I do have a custom Emerson neck knife which is nice as far as those things go --- it's over 10 years old and in perfect condition.

I'm also in the midst of buying a camera for a vacation so choices are hard. I want the D5100 with kit lens and 55 - 300 lens. All I would need (most likely) but maybe $950 or so. Hard choices.

My other vice is (was) watches. I bought smart but was out of control --- I had a $50,000 watch on (bought new for $35,000; wore it carefully one summer and sold it for $35,000 ) --- that convinced me I was a bit out of control. Right now I'm primarily wearing an automatic Hamilton Khaki (large size). Upgraded ETA - 2892 movement, see-thru back, sapphire crystal. A steal on amazon for the $350 I paid. Still completely made in Switzerland. Great looker and historic (WWI).

Best fellow southpaw. :thumbup: