Ti Framelocks: How much better do they get?

Framelocks are definately my favorite type of lock out there. My favorite thing about them is how simple yet strong they are. There are zero extra parts to make it work meaning zero extra parts to fail when you need it. The titanium is also super corrosion resistant which is nice as well. The JYD is an excellent design I have a couple myself. I still have yet to find a handle that feels better in my hand. My Kershaw SG2 JYD has custom IKBS and a STR lowrider clip and it made it way smoother but it really didn't need it in the first place.

If you made the JYD your only framelock you would miss out on pretty much all my favorite knives. For example, the Sebenza has a heat treated lock face so that it is much harder and doesn't wear near as much as other framelocks. It also has a pivot bushing so you just tighten the pivot till it stops and its perfect every time, no more carefully adjusting and locktighting to get the sweet spot. Also for the rest of your life you can send it in and for a small fee CRK will refurbish the knife into brand new condition and tune it up. You can also have it engraved or a damascus blade installed if you ever wanted too. And most importantly Chris Reeve knives has the ability to make extremely tight tolerances on their knives. Their surface grinding is capable of producing results that vary by only .0005".

Thats the obvious one that every knife nut will tell you about but you can also get framelocks with IKBS bearing pivots for the smoothes pivot possible, different blade shapes/geometries, different blade steels, framelocks with titanium on the lock side and another material on the other (G-10/carbon fiber/lined micarta/wood/bone...) the list really goes on and on.

So use that JYD for a while and find out the benefits of the framelock for yourself and then, when you feel the need, starting researching other framelocks that match the qualities that you want.
 
Josh K said:
You would be missing the refined feel of a Sebenza, the brute strength of a Hinderer / Strider / ZT. You'd miss out on the FFG Sage II, not to mention the large amount of custom makers that make framelock knives.
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2nd that argument for sure. :thumbup:
 
I once swore by the lockback as my favorite. Then, the AXIS lock, followed by a few liner-locks, which didn't generally impress me, strength-wise. As I started my folder life with slippies, I was - and remain - careful.

I have 'tried' larger pivot screw Ti frame-locks, like my recent ZT-301. Even with properly lubed bushings, more effort is still required to open the blade, witness the ZT-301's AO - which masks the effort with energy you stored in a torsion spring when you last closed the blade. The same goes for my most recent purchase - the 790 Subrosa - by using the new 'Nitrous' assisted opening. Going in the other direction, pivot screw/bushing size, the Buck 172 Mayo TNT is buttery smooth - as near the Sebenza experience as I am likely to get.

The different sided Ti frame-locks, like my BM 755 MPR and Boker Haddock with their opposite side being of G10, offer a wide range of results. The 755 has great alignment - and the solid backspacer for strength and maintaining said alignment. Combined with a healthy, but stubby, blade and fairly stout pivot, it is not a light deployment part-Ti framelock. The Haddock depends on close tolerances to maintain the G10/Ti alignment - there is no solid backspacer there. Having a thick-spined blade with an 'aggressive' hollow grind, it should be a fairly decent light slicer (So far...).

There is a knife with both sides of Ti - and a solid back spacer for strength and alignment. The pivot and bushings are appropriately sized - it's large blade can be deployed easily and smoothly with a flipper. Of course, I am referring to the Kershaw 1725SG2 blemish. The only knife I have ever purchased that was sharper upon arrival was my original production 1725SG2 - and it cost a bit more. So, to the OP - you are there - the blemished 1725SG2 Ti framelock is a deal. Use it and enjoy it.

Stainz
 
OrangeJoe said:
Edited: Crossposted with road less traveled, That,s a great example. I thought I would hate the clip, but it actually looks great with the knife. If only we could get str to do a low rider inspired by the original.
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I agree, the original clip looks great with the style of the knife. Unfortunately, it doesn't look so great when it is sticking out of my pocket all by itself. I deal with the public all day long - my new STR clips are much more appropriate.

STR said:
I based the low rider I make for it off the original and thought I kept it in line with the Kershaw designs seen on most of their knives...

STR
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I bought a bead blasted titanium clip and a blue jean blue titanium clip from you. The design is outstanding and the fit/finish is flawless. Your clips are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, again!
 
I don't know how I missed the 'spoon' shaped JYDII clips. I kept seeing the thinner paddle shaped ones.

...I guess STR will have a new customer in a few hours. I'll have to re-read that order stickie post. :)

To all framelock fans, I know that the framelock is not going to come apart if I look at it funny.

I must say the OP was not one of my better worded posts.

I meant to say that I know the limits of the framelock (every lock has them, they are just different from the lockbacks I'm used to) AND I plan on keeping the Ti and SG2 looking as purdy as I can so my (at least equally tough and already battle scarred) Endura 4 will continue to tackle the 'tuff stuff.

For know the SG2 is MY poor man's Sebenza.
 
I hate framelocks, even the left-handed ones.

My fingers or palm always seem to get in the way of the lock release. I don't really like metal handles as the feel isn't as nice as other materials. The lock isn't significantly stronger or more secure than, say, a back lock or one of the ambidextrous spring locks like AXIS or ball lock; it certainly isn't as comfortable or as intuitive to open for me.

Just my point of view. Certainly lots of people disagree :)
 
Here is my TI framelock JYDII:

And to the OP, no, they don't get any better than this.

100_2921.jpg

20080509_34.jpg
 
Scott Neelan said:
It depends on how well the lockback is designed and how well the frame lock is designed when it comes to which is better. I'd put pretty much any frame lock with a Hinderer lock stop up against anything short of a Tri-Ad lockback. The Tri-Ad, if all I've seen is true, just so happens to be so far above everything else as to not be comparable.

Anyway, to the OP, that's where I'd point you next. Try out something like a Kershaw Volt (if you can find one) or an A.G. Russell Acies. Very well-built knives, buttery smooth openings, and the Hinderer lock stop prevents the lock from being opened too far, which adds to the lock's strength.

From there, depending on which direction you want to move, there's the "pinnacles" of frame lock designs: the Sebenzas, the Striders, and the XM-18/XM-24's. A Sebenza would be the perfect light/medium-use folder, outstanding fit and finish, beyond smooth opening, and outstanding "gentlemen's folder" looks. A Strider would be the ultimate hard-use folder, a thick, beefy blade ready for just about anything. An XM-18 would be somewhere in the middle, solidly-built enough to handle pretty much anything without looking like a sharpened prybar on steroids.
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Not trying to start an argument but the Sebenza is much more than a "light-medium use" folder.:rolleyes: I don't know what you use a knife for but a Sebenza is made for hard use. These are "knives" we are talking about.:cool:
 
mmarkh said:
Not trying to start an argument but the Sebenza is much more than a "light-medium use" folder.:rolleyes: I don't know what you use a knife for but a Sebenza is made for hard use. These are "knives" we are talking about.:cool:
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They are Medium to hard use really, more medium use depending on ones definitions. ;)

The real hard use ones are Strider and Hinderer.
 
Ti framelocks are one of my favorite locking mechanisms. I'm a sucker for a clean and simple design in just about anything I buy. This option offers me that. While I know that it is not the 'strongest locking mechanism', it is strong enough for me and predictable. I appreciate how many have an open/semi-open design.

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of most locking mechanisms when executed correctly. Lock-backs/Triad Lock, liner lock, and axis/cage ball locks are great (not a fan of button locks).

There is something about that Ti which is so luxurious to me. It's probably all in my head though.
 
Ankerson said:
They are Medium to hard use really, more medium use depending on ones definitions. ;)

The real hard use ones are Strider and Hinderer.
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Not everybody's definition of "hard use" involves sheet metal, batonning locked folders, or mallets.
 
Ankerson said:
Like I said.. ;)
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I felt the Sebenza was pretty up there in strength.

for me:
easy use (EDC, boxes, tape)
medium use (outdoor, hiking, fishing, food prep)
Hard use (primary camp knife)
Hatchet (splitting wood, fire-prep)
Axe (chopping wood, falling small trees, chopping saplings)
Chainsaw (everything else).

Unless i'm stranded in the wilderness (which would be quite stupid, as i live in the suburbs in the South Bay area CA and our "wilderness" is less 10 miles away) I'd never use my knife for battoning, And i can't say i've ever faced a 1/8 steel plate i couldn't walk around or climb over. I've never felt the need to see which chunk of metal would be the victor.

In short, On a daily basis i expect easy-medium use from my knives. 499/500 times i use my knife, it'll be easy/medium use.
But when i held the sebenza i could easily expect easy-hard out of it. similar to the ZT knife i handled, and the Bradley alias.

I don't think CRK knives and Strider knives would have the reputation they have with no reason.
 
My primary EDCs are CRKs. My Sebenza does see back yard duty while I trim plants/shrubs, cut sprinkler hoses, and sometimes even digging out a tough weed. I would call that medium use and it works flawlessly with no blade chipping or any other issues.
 
To improve on the JYD SG2 I would do several things. First, I would give it the flat high saber grind from the non-limited edition version. I would then radius the edges of the titanium slabs, mine are a bit overly pointy. The only other 'improvement' I can see with this knife is to make it in a smaller version. (I am guessing I am simply asking to have custom finished knives without the custom price.) The handle shape, balance and smoothness are really very nice, especially for an ~$80 knife.

With the original blade in the handle I do not think a hinderer device or other addition to the safety device would help me. With the non-locking side removed it took me ~10min to remove the pivot, and blade, from the locking slab. It was that well fitted. My impression is I could have easily stood on it without it folding even without the other slab. If there is a job where this kind of strength in a folder might not be enough then I would not want to have my hands in that situation. Having the replaceable lock face and lockable hinderer device from the Lion Steel knife would be really cool but does not seem needed by any stretch.
 
iamtoast said:
To improve on the JYD SG2 I would do several things. First, I would give it the flat high saber grind from the non-limited edition version. I would then radius the edges of the titanium slabs, mine are a bit overly pointy. The only other 'improvement' I can see with this knife is to make it in a smaller version. (I am guessing I am simply asking to have custom finished knives without the custom price.) The handle shape, balance and smoothness are really very nice, especially for an ~$80 knife.

With the original blade in the handle I do not think a hinderer device or other addition to the safety device would help me. With the non-locking side removed it took me ~10min to remove the pivot, and blade, from the locking slab. It was that well fitted. My impression is I could have easily stood on it without it folding even without the other slab. If there is a job where this kind of strength in a folder might not be enough then I would not want to have my hands in that situation. Having the replaceable lock face and lockable hinderer device from the Lion Steel knife would be really cool but does not seem needed by any stretch.
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Thanks for the post; that's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
 
OrangeJoe said:
I just bought a Ti framelock Kershaw Junkyard Dog II in SG2. A "blem" from BFs Dealer section. <$80 shipped :)

It's my only Ti framelock knife.

I know the limitations of the framelock design so this will probably be my food prep/letter opener/steak knife (I'll leave the heavy stuff to my Spyderco Endura 4 Wave).

Everything seems well built and finished, tight lockup, no bladeplay open nor closed, silly-easy flipper action, a very simple, clean design.

The question that jumps at me from examining this knife is...

How much better can a Ti framelock get?

What could be improved? Even thou it's a 700 piece limited run, the knife is one of the most recommended sub $200 Ti framelocks in the forums.

In other words, if you could improve the JYDII what would you change?

What am I missing if I make this my only Ti framelock?
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"limitations" of a framelock design? ti framelock is way stronger then a back lock like in an endura 4.
 
Want to see the Arnold Schwarzenegger of ti frame locks? Look at the Crusader Forge
FIFP model.

Whoa momma.........
 
A sleeper in the Ti framelock arena, now, sadly, taking the 'big sleep', is the Buck 172 Mayo 'TNT', seen below with the similar-bladed (S30V) #347 Vantage Pro:

IMG_4128.jpg


Smaller than the large Sebenza, that 172 TNT is a very well made knife - just intruding into the same time zone - or outter edge of the ballpark - of quality of the Sebbies - perhaps why Buck couldn't sell them at their $300+ MSRP. Great 'gent's knife' - or the smaller 171 variant. Much more moola than that Ti/SG2 blem JYDII - much less of a knife. Still, mine has a home!

Stainz
 
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