Tick, Doc, Tick, Doc

D

DOC-CANADA

Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
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I have a problem I hope you, my keyboard kin, can help me resolve. The last time I went out hiking, I came home with 2 new friends.

forPhotobucket-1.jpg

Now this is probably a Dog Tick, but where there are Dog Ticks…………………….
I have spent most of my 61 years, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, fishing and a bit of hunting. This has never been a problem before. Lyme Disease seems to be on the rise and it is nothing to screw around with, not to mention other tick borne diseases like HGE. Now, the accepted prevention seems to be, when you get home, check yourself over for the little bas***ds. Now consider the size of the Deer Tick (Ixodes scapularis) in its larval stage (beside dime):
larvaldeertick.jpg
Ixodesscapularis-adultfemaleadultma.jpg


I can't even see my ass, let alone check for ticks this size, on it :mad: . So, how do you guys cope with this problem? This may not be a big problem for you that have lived with this for awhile, but I am having problems getting my head around it. Keep in mind that Permethrin is not allowed for sale in Canada.

To further complicate the issue, back in 1999, I received 3 injections (the prescribed regimen at the time) of Lymerix, the Lyme disease vaccine. It was discovered that this vaccine caused severe complications for some people (which resulted in a class action law suit against the manufacturer). Luckily, it did not seem to affect me (my aches and pains seem to be geezer-related :( ). The problems, though, are that any immunity the vaccine would have provided will be non existent by now (according to the CDC website), and secondly, the vaccine could trigger a positive test for Lyme disease, using conventional test methods, so testing may not even be an option.

So that's the deal. Any help will be appreciated.

Doc
 
I'd ask your cute neighbor lady to come over and inspect you all over for ticks. :p Beyond that and a mirror there isn't any way of finding the little lawyers until they latch onto you. Remember most tick repellants are applied to your clothes and allowed to dry before wearing. I have no idea what is available in Canada.
 
Hey DOC-Canada,
I feel for you, my job requires me to be infested by ticks on a daily basis and I just went through the whole testing/medication procedure. I'm sure as a doctor you're aware that the appropriate treatment is doxycycline and what the testing procedures are. Be aware that the standard test produces a 60% false negative rate and even the better one has a 30% false rate. My advice would be that if you think you've been exposed use the mirror as already suggested and see if you can start the anti-biotic treatment. Good luck.

Lagarto
 
As kids...I would be made to check for ticks all the time, we lived in the woods...ticks were in our yard right? My mom would make us check over, and I would do this by running my hands over my skin, not by "looking". You would be suprised at how the smallest little speck of anything can be felt by your finger tips. I would focus on my hair, and ears. Then my legs, from the feet up. Now as for checking your ass, I suggest washing your hands afterwards:D
Gene;)
 
lagarto said:
Hey DOC-Canada,
I feel for you, my job requires me to be infested by ticks on a daily basis and I just went through the whole testing/medication procedure. I'm sure as a doctor you're aware that the appropriate treatment is doxycycline and what the testing procedures are. Be aware that the standard test produces a 60% false negative rate and even the better one has a 30% false rate. My advice would be that if you think you've been exposed use the mirror as already suggested and see if you can start the anti-biotic treatment. Good luck.

Lagarto
Click to expand...

The "Doc" part is a nickname only.

Doc
 
Doc -Canada,you are not quite right in saying permethrin is not allowed in Canada,its just not allowed for human use. It is allowed for use on dogs and horses. Any insecticide containing perm. or pyrethrin(check spelling) will work the some way. Do lots of research on internet first, especially to find right percentage of concentration. This method was brought to my attention by an article in the backpacker magazine. Also I use to work in an outdoor store in canada and had some customers tell me they were able to get get perm overr the internet,most notably some site with Travelmeds in the name. Supposedly Cdn forces have access to perm and 3m ultrathon mosquito repellent. Notice the difference in words,repellent and insecticide,some people use them wrongly in their product description. I found both are needed to keep ticks at bay. I like to walk in shorts even in tick country and here in Sask we have to watch out for west nile right now. I have used this combo on a field trip where every body else but me and one other guy were covered in ticks(20+ ea).I had some on me but they were just on my socks and I believe they were trying to get off. The other guy said he had never been bothered EVER by mosquitos or ticks. One last thing, if you can find a plant growing around your area called bedstraw,crush that and rub it on your clothes. It is called bed straw because the Aboriginal people and early settlers used it to keep insect vermin away
 
Ps It takes ticks awhile to get settled,so often a shower at earliest convenience helps lots,good time to follow gunknifenut's advice
 
Run around singing that Brad Paisley song, with a twist? "I'd like YOU to check ME for ticks!!"

Sorry.

Permethrin works to keep buggies at bay. I treated some uniforms with it when I was in the service. This was the "soak it for 6 hours" treatment, not the industrial green spray can. The soaking treatment is supposed to last the life of the garment, the spray for up to a very few wash cycles (like six). The spray, we used on stuff we didn't wash much, like tents, cots, etc. It works.

Sometimes I still wear the pants from one of those uniforms when I hike or hunt, and I've noticed that I have fewer problems with gnats and mosquitoes when I wear them. I can't remember ever having a tick. Then again, I can't remember ever hiking in shorts, either.
 
My brother got a positive result a number of years ago. He ended up on antibiotics (amoxicilin) for a month or something like that- the positive result was for more than 6 mos. prior.
 
Hey guys, thanks for the input. I appreciate the effort.

finder: Doc -Canada,you are not quite right in saying permethrin is not allowed in Canada,its just not allowed for human use. It is allowed for use on dogs and horses. Any insecticide containing perm. or pyrethrin(check spelling) will work the some way. Do lots of research on internet first, especially to find right percentage of concentration. This method was brought to my attention by an article in the backpacker magazine. Also I use to work in an outdoor store in canada and had some customers tell me they were able to get get perm overr the internet,most notably some site with Travelmeds in the name. Supposedly Cdn forces have access to perm and 3m ultrathon mosquito repellent. Notice the difference in words,repellent and insecticide,some people use them wrongly in their product description. I found both are needed to keep ticks at bay. I like to walk in shorts even in tick country and here in Sask we have to watch out for west nile right now. I have used this combo on a field trip where every body else but me and one other guy were covered in ticks(20+ ea).I had some on me but they were just on my socks and I believe they were trying to get off. The other guy said he had never been bothered EVER by mosquitos or ticks. One last thing, if you can find a plant growing around your area called bedstraw,crush that and rub it on your clothes. It is called bed straw because the Aboriginal people and early settlers used it to keep insect vermin away
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, finder, I shall certainly check into it. I am aware that permethrin is nothing to treat lightly but I have no qualms about treating hiking pants. I am familiar with Bedstraw (Galium boreale). BTW, it's also a spring and summer wild edible. I thought that a shower after hiking would be a good idea, but the 2 bast**ds I found on me were unimpressed.

As far as gunknifenut's suggestion, while a good one, I don't know if an early stage deer tick would be discernible, by touch, with body hair, scars and other.

lagarto Hey DOC-Canada,
I feel for you, my job requires me to be infested by ticks on a daily basis and I just went through the whole testing/medication procedure
Click to expand...

What kind of work do you do?

And 2 dogs, while I like your suggestion the best, you haven't seen my neighbours!:(

Anyway guys, once again, thanks a lot for your input.

Doc
 
Doc,
I have been living with ticks all my life and literally get hundreds per year, both wood ticks and deer ticks, or seed ticks as we call them down south. I have about 10 tick bites on me right now from playing paintball last weekend. We have a very low rate of lyme or any other tick born diseases around here, luckily. I use permithrin, be sure to let it dry on your clothes if you can get some and deet products, I blouse my pants into lace up boots and tuck my shirt in, and take a shower as soon as I get out of the woods.

When I plan a trip and take precautions I do good and don't get so many but my problem is quick, unscheduled jaunts in shorts and birkenstocks and I get covered up, several time a year. :mad: In one sense I am lucky in that I seem to be very allergic to tick bites and they itch like the devil within a few hours of biting me so I find them quick, the down side is I am in agony from the itching for at least 2 weeks.

I have learned to live with ticks and it is like any other contagious disease, take the best precautions I can but it is not go to slow me down or change my lifestyle. Chris
 
Current medical thinking on Lyme disease is to treat if people have obvious symptoms. So, the most important thing is to discuss the situation with a physician who is up-to-date with Lyme disease evalutation and management. If someone calls me at the office to discuss a tick bite, I just discuss what to look for (characteristic rash, etc.). If nothing develops, then they are A-OK. Lab testing (of the person or tick) is not a routine part of what I do as a physician in managing a patient with a history of tick bites.

The following link is a bit technical, but it gives a good medical summary of the current thinking on Lyme Disease:

http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?doc_id=4836&nbr=3481&string=lyme
 
I grew up in the mountains . . . the only tick I have ever had in my life, I got while living in Harrisburg, PA.

I R O N Y ! ! !
 
DOC-CANADA,
To answer your question I'm a field technician with a contract archaeology firm. I guess Asfried2 pretty much covered it with that link he sent you. I was put on meds b/c I'm also suffering from severe exhaustion due to another condition and that could mask the symptoms of Lyme. If you do wind up thinking you need anti-biotics the CDC web page suggests 100 mgs of doxycycline for about 2 weeks. I took it twice a day, but I have heard of people taking it thrice daily. Best of luck.

Lagarto
 
DOC, I've had Lymes twice and keep an eye out for the vermin pretty close.
Permethrin works great, but check anyway.
A mirror is your best bet, I check EVERYWHERE (sorry for the image)with the mirror after I've been out. The Doxycycline killed it both times.Now I have old fart aches and like to blame it on the ticks.:D
 
asfried2 said:
The following link is a bit technical, but it gives a good medical summary of the current thinking on Lyme Disease:

http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?doc_id=4836&nbr=3481&string=lyme
Click to expand...

Thank you for link, asfried2. I've copied and pasted and will check it out at greater length.

Runningboar, I think your post helped as much as any to see that I may be giving this too much importance although in the northeast the incidence of Lyme is quit a bit greater than in NC.

Mewolf, good to see you in here again.

And thanks again to everyone, for the help.

Doc
 
Doc,I know you know this but it bears repeating. Permethrin is for use only on your clothes. the higher the percentage ,the longer lasting the effect lasts. US army fatigues were supposedly good for half a year(26 weeks). if you spray it on,spray only on the out side. If you get it on your skin don't worry too much,apparently the chemicals esterize away(I think that's the word). the stuff in canada is for use on dogs and horses and doesn't seem to bother them. Not so hot for fish and cats though
 
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