Tick Protocol

k_estela

k_estela

Co-Moderator, Wilderness and Survival Skills Forum
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Well, I just pulled a deer tick off my left arm a few minutes ago. I should have followed my usual protocol of checking myself last night after a quick walk in the woods. I got lazy, period. Luckily, the walk was around 6 last night and it hasn't been a long time since it attached. I didn't crush the head as I pulled it off with tweezers and it is still crawling around in a small container I'm going to send off to the state for examination. No redness around the bite and no other ticks on me after a shower and self examination. Still, I got lazy.

I should have put bug dope on.

I should have checked myself at the end of the day.

I should have been more careful.

I will learn from the mistakes I made and be more careful. This type of event makes me wonder if you guys have a tick protocol. Something you do to prevent them and something you do once you find one.

Kev
 
Here in the south ticks are about everywhere. For my pups, I use that stuff you put behind their neck, and a tick collar. I have found there is little to do to prevent them. When I used to lead kids in the wilderness at camp many parents would send their kids will all kinds of repelents. None worked as far as I could tell.

When I can tolerate it in the summer months I try to wear full sleeves and pants. Its uncomfortable, but it helps. Also, I shave my head every week 52 weeks a year, so they dont like my head much (I always wear a cap, or hat, or bandanna in the field).

When I am living outside, I do a check every night. Otherwise I check in the shower when I am at home.

As for removal, I know this is bad, but I just pull em out. Id love to hear others ideas for safer removal.

k_estela said:
Well, I just pulled a deer tick off my left arm a few minutes ago. I should have followed my usual protocol of checking myself last night after a quick walk in the woods. I got lazy, period. Luckily, the walk was around 6 last night and it hasn't been a long time since it attached. I didn't crush the head as I pulled it off with tweezers and it is still crawling around in a small container I'm going to send off to the state for examination. No redness around the bite and no other ticks on me after a shower and self examination. Still, I got lazy.

I should have put bug dope on.

I should have checked myself at the end of the day.

I should have been more careful.

I will learn from the mistakes I made and be more careful. This type of event makes me wonder if you guys have a tick protocol. Something you do to prevent them and something you do once you find one.

Kev
Click to expand...
 
http://www.aldf.com/lyme.shtml#removal

If you DO find a tick attached to your skin, there is no need to panic. Not all ticks are infected, and studies of infected deer ticks have shown that they begin transmitting Lyme disease an average of 36 to 48 hours after attachment.Therefore, your chances of contracting LD are greatly reduced if you remove a tick within the first 48 hours. Remember, too, that nearly all of early diagnosed Lyme disease cases are easily treated and cured.

To remove a tick, follow these steps:

Using a pair of pointed precision* tweezers, grasp the tick by the head or mouthparts right where they enter the skin. DO NOT grasp the tick by the body.
Without jerking, pull firmly and steadily directly outward. DO NOT twist the tick out or apply petroleum jelly, a hot match, alcohol or any other irritant to the tick in an attempt to get it to back out.
Place the tick in a vial or jar of alcohol to kill it.
Clean the bite wound with disinfectant.

*Keep in mind that certain types of fine-pointed tweezers, especially those that are etched, or rasped, at the tips, may not be effective in removing nymphal deer ticks. Choose unrasped fine-pointed tweezers whose tips align tightly when pressed firmly together.
Then, monitor the site of the bite for the appearance of a rash beginning 3 to 30 days after the bite. At the same time, learn about the other early symptoms of Lyme disease and watch to see if they appear in about the same timeframe. If a rash or other early symptoms develop, see a physician immediately.
 
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Bug dope, and scans when out, and ahem, a detailed check at end of day....

With the wet weather and high heat/humidity, they have been horrid this year. I tend to not get any while mountain biking, but I have had several crawling on me while hiking. Pests. I hate ticks.

Removal, I use--

http://store.everestgear.com/eqtic101.html

best 4 bucks Ive ever spent. I now carry one all the time, and have convinced my boss to stock em on our ambulances.
 
tools.jpg
lg_hook_tick.jpg


A couple of years ago while working in Norway, I was given one of these french made O'Tom "Tick Twister" tick removal tools. It works like a charm, I probably removed a dozen ticks with it and didn't break off a single one, I would highly recommend this to anyone who frequents tick infested areas.

It looks like you can order them here for $4 each online in USA.
 
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k_estela said:
I should have put bug dope on.
Click to expand...

In your experience, what are the top three repellants? (I like top three lists, that way I am sure to find at least one. :) )

This type of event makes me wonder if you guys have a tick protocol. Something you do to prevent them and something you do once you find one.

Kev
Click to expand...

1. First line of defense for me is the lowly garlic pill available from GNC and other places like GNC. They are crushable, relatively heat-stable little gel caps. They must stink, they must make your breath stink, they must make you belch garlic, I am NOT recommending "Garlique" pills like Larry King peddled for years as those are specifically designed so that your breath won't stink from them, so they are "friendly" to the consumer. You want the extremely unfriendly garlic pills.

I would imagine that some people have some type of bizarre body chemistry and these don't work. I have never seen them fail and I have only encountered people who say they don't work because they don't want to smell like garlic because getting laid in the woods is more important than not having a tick latch onto you.

They don't work on mosquitoes or chiggers, for me.

Two to four of them per day and you can take a tick and place it on your forearm and it will walk off the edge of your arm.

2. Second line of defense is good bug juice.

3. I have to admit, I'm an apply some muck so it has to back out type of person. I'm really dubious about using tweezers of any type especially since ticks like some places that will be hard to get to and I'm not into yoga, i.e., sticking my head up my own ass (no jokes!) to then use a precision pair of tweezers to precisely grab a tick by his head area and pull him out. Seems like a recipe for leaving something in the wound just as easily as the tick leaving something in the wound from the application of Vaseline or something else to smother him. To clarify: I think for most people you are more likely to leave something in the wound by pulling them out than by using something to make the tick back out as they breathe through their ass...

Now, in the 70s, what we heard and what my parents did was the light a match, blow it out, instantly place it on the tick. They did that because most outdoor experts and doctors at the time were telling people not to use tweezers! :rolleyes:

Times change, ways of doing things change...I think excellent tweezers are a must for everyone's FAK and SKIT but I think most of the time for self-care, it would probably be better to try to smother them but NOT burn them. If you just missed one that you can easily get to with tweezers or you have someone along that can do the whole "I wanted to be a Proctologist but I flunked out of Med School" thing, great! :D
 
mckrob said:


[COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"][SIZE="3"]A couple of years ago while working in Norway, I was given one of these french made [URL="http://www.otom.com/siteus/tick-twister-brands.html"] O'Tom "Tick Twister" [/URL] tick removal tools. It works like a charm, I probably removed a dozen ticks with it and didn't break off a single one, I would highly recommend this to anyone who frequents tick infested areas.

It looks like you can order them [URL="http://www.ticktwister.com/index.html"]here[/URL] for $4 each online in USA.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

that is awesome! thanks for posting it :thumbup:

my protocol is simple - if I find one I take a single 200 mg dose of doxycycline. I believe that is now the recommended course of action - even without any redness or indication of infection. So long as the rate of lyme's in a given area is above 20% and you are bitten by a species of tick that carries lyme, it is considered appropriate to dose 200mg of doxy.

[url]http://www.aldf.com/raad.shtml[/url]

And that's exactly what I did a few weeks ago when I found one on the end of my... yep, annoying bugger attached right underneath the tip :(
Click to expand...
 
Kevin -

As a precautionary measure, you want to be looking for a rash and or flu like symptoms for the next 30 days. Many people never even get a rash.

The BEST thing to repel ticks is Deet, period. If you have reservations about wearing Deet for health reasons, the benefits far outweigh the risks associated with Lyme disease. Wearing light clothes to allow yourself and others to easily spot ticks is a good idea as is wearing long sleeves, long pants and a hat. If possible pull your socks over your pant leg to keep ticks from getting underneath.

Fact: Lyme disease is one of the easiest diseases to cure so long as it is caught in time. Usually within a few weeks is best, but past that, you can have some serious complications and a long recovery. Ticks just dont carry Lyme disease either, they can carry other infectious diseases such as Bartonella, Babesia, and Anaplasma. There are strains of Lyme and other tick borne infections not known therefore there is no way to test.

New England is a hot bed for tick activity. In NH, the reported cases of Lyme have been doubling every year. According to the state, over 50% of Deer Ticks checked did carry Lyme as well as the other diseases mentioned. Further south of NH is a tick called the Lone Star Tick which is said not to carry Lyme disease but carry Human Monocytic Ehrlichiosis, Tularemia and possibly Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. New information is available regarding a disease called STARI - Southern Tick Associated Rash Illness. These ticks are aggresive and will travel long distances to find a host. As with other ticks, they can detect heat and carbon dioxide as a host nears and go into a mode which allows them to latch onto you easily.

I'm currently recovering from Lyme disease which was caught too late. I've been out of work for almost a year and am now just getting back to normal. Lyme disease is one of the easiest diseases to cure so long as it is caught in time. If it's not, you could face some real problems with the worst part being not getting proper medical treatment as the mainstream medical community denies the existence of "chronic Lyme". Be vigilant when it comes to ticks as Lyme disease and other tick borne illness is reaching epidemic proportions and you do not want to go through it, trust me.
 
akennedy73 said:
that is awesome! thanks for posting it :thumbup:

my protocol is simple - if I find one I take a single 200 mg dose of doxycycline. I believe that is now the recommended course of action - even without any redness or indication of infection. So long as the rate of lyme's in a given area is above 20% and you are bitten by a species of tick that carries lyme, it is considered appropriate to dose 200mg of doxy.
Click to expand...

Exactly. At that point any infection is localized to the bite and a single 200mg dose od Doxy is all that is required to erradicate any infection.
 
I don't expect you guys to necessarily be doctors, but can someone explain how a single dose of doxy is a good idea? You're supposed to take a run of antibiotics and it seems as though this is a rather medically stupid way to treat this as the negative side of this treatment is the creation of more "superbugs" like MRSA, etc. What I am trying to say is, it might kill the Lyme Disease but perhaps you should take an entire run of the antibiotic so you don't create other antibiotic-resistant bacteria, etc.
 
When I found a deer tick attached to me, I did tell my doctor that it could not have been on my skin more than 12 hours. He said protocol was 3 days of antibiotics.

Sorry, but I don't recall the specific one as it was a few years ago. Also, there was no redness around the site or any other type of irritation.

Peter
 
Sorry to any of those in the medical profession, but for us who are not, educating ourselves on what to do is in our best interest as doctors opinions and actions vary on what to do. Most doctors in my area's time spent in the outdoors is on a golf course and may have only seen a tick in medical school.
Educate yourself, wear Deet and do what you feel is in your best interest after you find one on you.
 
Don Rearic said:
I don't expect you guys to necessarily be doctors, but can someone explain how a single dose of doxy is a good idea? You're supposed to take a run of antibiotics and it seems as though this is a rather medically stupid way to treat this as the negative side of this treatment is the creation of more "superbugs" like MRSA, etc. What I am trying to say is, it might kill the Lyme Disease but perhaps you should take an entire run of the antibiotic so you don't create other antibiotic-resistant bacteria, etc.
Click to expand...

The new England Journal of Medicine states that a single 200 mg dose can prevent Lyme disease if given withing 72 hrs of a tick bite. This is a precautionary measure to erradicate any infection (if present) at the earliest stage which makes the most sense. The reason for not prescribing any more than a single dose is that it is usually not needed. Keep in mind, at that stage, any infection is local to the bite and not spread yet. If someone is bitten and doesn't know it and goes on to develop a rash, that is an indicator that the infection is present and has been for a while and then a longer regiment of antibiotics is given.

I'm guessing the reason for doing this is due to the increasing number of Lyme disease cases. The tick that bites a person may not even carry Lyme so again, it's more a precautionary measure with the thought process being it's better / safer to prescribe one dose early to prevent getting the disease rather than waiting to see if someone does become ill and then have to prescribe a month or more worth of antibiotics later.

Im not sure how these antibiotic resitant bugs work, maybe it doesn't apply to Lyme since Lyme is not airborne or transmitted through human contact. Is there a Doctor in the house? :D

There's some real interesting and disturbing stuff going on in the political arena with regard to Lyme these days. Do a search on Conneticut Atty General Blumenthal's recent Antitrust suit against the CDC.
 
Brian,

I don't think you understand what I am saying. Only taking a single dose of an antibiotic could cause problems later on and be unrelated to the Lyme Disease infection which the single dose could have very well eradicated. The improper use of antibiotics, prescribing them to shut patients up because they "want something" for a cold or flu with no bacterial infection present and patients improperly using antibiotics by not finishing courses/runs of antibiotics are both apparently causing these "superbugs" like MRSA. Coupled with beancounting hospital administrators who seem hell bent on employing people to clean hospitals who have no firm grasp of cleanliness.
 
I usually try to wear light colored cltjimg..I use deet all exposed skin...other than my face.. and a few inched under the clothing.. where possibly entry points are...( around the ankles, the sleeves, the waistband) I try to avoid areas that look particularly "ticky" but that's not often possible...I do a quick precursory check when I finish my outing, than when I get home I shower and have my wife do a thorough check..its become a tradition..in fact sometimes I just got to he woods so I can get checked later.. LOL
 
First of all, I want to thank Kevin for bringing this up, once again. I am seriously concerned about ticks and Lyme disease.

In 1999 and 2000, I received the 3 shot regimen of Lymerix, the (at that time) approved vaccine to prevent Lyme disease. Since then, as most of you know, Lymerix was pulled because of troubling side effects - arthritis and possible Lyme disease :eek: , the very things it was supposed to prevent. Also, according to the CDC, any protection that Lymerix might have afforded has long since disappeared.

Luckily, I don't think I fell into the group that suffered these side effects - I think most of my aches and pains are geezer-related. :( However, what I am really concerned about, being a Lymerix recipient, is that I will always test positive for Lyme whether I have it or not, at least, I think so. I'm working on finding out the answer to this.

Also, the conventional precautions are:

After being outdoors, check yourself all over for ticks - problem - ticks are so small that they are difficult to spot for young eyes, not to mention us 'four-eyes' types, so no solution. Also, I can't even see my butt, let alone see something that small on it, and how to remove it, if you could???? :confused:

Get somebody to check you over for ticks - yeah right, first of all, a lot of us aren't friends of Brad Paisley, and some of us live alone. Also, my wife, who lives elsewhere, but is still my best friend, is my age and has the same problem with seeing something that small, providing she would go along with it in the first place :( , so no solution.

They say avoid long grass and undergrowth - that is fine for someone who goes out on established trails for a bit of a walk, but what about us - primitive skills/ wilderness survival buffs out there learning and experimenting? - no solution.

Use DEET - apparently there is some controversy about whether this is 100% effective or not, so although mitigating, may not be the solution.

Since June 1, I have been compiling all the Lyme-related information I can get my hands on, with the goal of finding answers to these problems - I still have a long way to go.

One thing, I think is imperative - we have to pressure our government officials (especially in Canada) to get their heads out of their butts, and to acknowledge that we have a problem. Maybe then, the mechanism and will needed to find an effective test will be forthcoming.

BTW, is there anybody else on this forum who was a Lymerix recipient? If you don't want to publish it on this forum, feel free to email me at: primitive at sympatico dot ca

Looking forward to all contributions to this thread.

Although, I'm not a big fan of 'stickies', perhaps this should be one?

Doc
 
I actively encourage everyone to get some of the stankass garlic pills and give it a try, it works.
 
Just went by Wal Mart... I couldnt find anything like any of the products for removal like pictured above. As much as ticks are an issue here, I figured someone would have something... Maybe at Walgreens?
 
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