TIG welding mosaic tiles

NickWheeler

NickWheeler

Joined
Dec 3, 1999
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So normally when I cut mosaic tiles at a 45 degree angle and flip them, I just tack the edges with the wire feed, then wet weld.

Trying to broaden my skills, and having access to some really nice TIG units at school, I decided to try dry welding the latest billet.

I surface ground all edges and got everything to fit up darn near perfect.

Using a Thermal Arc 300 AMP machine, I did a fusion weld around all the joints with a very finely ground tungsten and around 120 AMPS. Ran a small puddle, fairly quickly.

This left a nice, clean, shallow bead. However, I tacked the edges first, then welded the seams on the face and some of the tacks pulled apart. I just went back over them, but I didn't like that too much.

I'm curious how you guys are doing it? Which unit, what kind of amperage, are you running the puddle very deep/wide? Fast travel speed?

How clean are you getting the pieces prior to TIG welding. I went so far as to clean the mating surfaces with acetone. Not sure if that's needed.

Any shared info would be greatly appreciated! :)
 
I'm not sure what you mean by wet weld and dry weld. Do you normally do this underwater? Or you mean without filler rod?

I may not be the right person to respond here, I ain't a hammer beater, though I do weld some.

I like to pulse if I'm useing tig. If you're using steady heat, the heat accumulates and the weld gets big, but shallow. If you pulse, you get more heat and better penetration, but then it lets up, so things cool a bit. I believe you'll get a stronger weld with less distortion and things wanting to pull apart. More importaint with thin stuff. I might set the pulse twice a second, 40% on, 20% background power. Keep the tip as close as you can where it is focused the tightest.

I'm using a 400 amp Lincoln squarewave. From what you describe I might have the amperage set around 150. I usually move pretty slow, probably 10 IPM. If I were a pro, and I wanted to "blow and go" I'd step up the heat and the pulse and do it all a lot faster. You'll frequently get better welds with less contamination and risk of cracking if you go quickly. If you weld hot and fast enough, you can even weld through rust and grease (but then, why are you TIGing?)

A good fit is nice, but not critical. Clean is nice, but not always critical. Removing scale and other significant surface contamination is important. Cleaning between the pieces with acetone is not a waste of time because heat makes gunk smoke which can then contaminate the weld. And somehow heat seams to draw gunk into a weld, I hate that...
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm not sure what you mean by wet weld and dry weld. Do you normally do this underwater? Or you mean without filler rod?
Click to expand...

I believe what Nick is referring to is using a TIG torch to weld shut the edges of joints on mosaic tiles in preparation for forge welding. The "dry" vs. "wet" welding is referring to the forge welding process. a "wet" weld uses flux and is the standard way to go about things. A "dry" weld has all the joints welded shut with some form of electric welding first to exclude oxygen from the surfaces to be forge welded. A lot of guys have taken to using TIG without filler rod to just fuse the joints closed prior to going into the forge.
A good example of what Nick is talking about can be seen here on Don Fogg's forum in a description of the "Ferry Flip".

-d
 
Hey Nick,

I am using a lincoln precision tig 175, with the max amps set at 105. I surface grind cut flip stack and then tack weld the sides. I then surface grind the faces and then fusion weld them together. You have probably learnd this at school but, One thing that helps when welding, is If you call your edges X and Y And the faces A and B then what I do is to start my puddle at X and go across face A to Y then immediately flip and weld from Y accross face B to X. After you have the puddle started then let up on the peddle until you have just enough heat to maintain the puddle as you push it accross the face. This seems to help equalize the welding stresses and keep warpage and weld cracking to a minimum. this works for me nearly as well as pre and post heating and takes less time. I am not taking any great care in cleaning the tiles before welding.
 
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Nick, I'm no expert so, take what I say w/ a grain of salt. What I have expierienced is just from wingin' it.:D

NickWheeler said:
So normally when I cut mosaic tiles at a 45 degree angle and flip them, I just tack the edges with the wire feed, then wet weld.

Trying to broaden my skills, and having access to some really nice TIG units at school, I decided to try dry welding the latest billet.

I surface ground all edges and got everything to fit up darn near perfect.
This is essential if not using a filler rod.

Using a Thermal Arc 300 AMP machine, I did a fusion weld around all the joints with a very finely ground tungsten and around 120 AMPS. Ran a small puddle, fairly quickly.
I use a Cheapo Thermal arc Dragster 85 Amp machine turned up to the max amps (85), I did find I have better results using a thicker tungsten rod, I thinks its .093 I'll have to check. I also tend to move on the slower side, Its a stuggle w/ penetration and not melting up your pattern too much:confused:

This left a nice, clean, shallow bead. However, I tacked the edges first, then welded the seams on the face and some of the tacks pulled apart. I just went back over them, but I didn't like that too much.
I treat it like II'm welding sheet metal, I do a couple of tacks all around the seam to hold it together, then jump around doing small beads. I find this helps w/ the piece moving too much. Somethimes I have to back over the welds a second time too. I figure its because my first attempts to TIG weld were doing this.:D I also do one piece at a time, I dont tack all the pieces together then complete. When I tried it like this, My gaps opened up too much making the fit, and subsequent welds a PITA. What usually happens is, even though your pre-weld fit up if perfect, as you weld I sure you saw how things wanted to move(hence the crackin). So I find doing one piece at a time will help combat this, The bar will curve and distort some as I go, but the next piece allways fits up to the "clean" piece prior just fine.

I'm curious how you guys are doing it? Which unit, what kind of amperage, are you running the puddle very deep/wide? Fast travel speed?

How clean are you getting the pieces prior to TIG welding. I went so far as to clean the mating surfaces with acetone. Not sure if that's needed.
I also clean w/ thinner/ Acetone befor TIG'ing, I figure it cant hurt.
Any shared info would be greatly appreciated! :)
Click to expand...

Hope this helps ya!

Shawn
 
Thanks guys!

Nathan, Deker hit the nail on the head as to what I'm doing.

Do you guys do any kind of stress relief or anything to the billet before putting it in the forge and welding? This billet is 1084/15N20.

I realize now that some of you guys are using a wire feed to tack the sides, and THEN using the TIG. I did it all with the TIG unit.

I'm sure it was smart for my first time using a TIG torch to be on a billet I have several hours into... LMAO. ;) :D

The instructor is a phenomenal welder... like sold his soul to the Devil kind of good.... but he didn't want to give me too much help with this since he readily admitted he wasn't familiar with what I was working with.

Thanks for the help guys!!! :thumbup: :cool: :D
 
The reason I asked about a stress relief is because with my normal practice of tacking with the wire feed, it's a short trip from the welding table into the forge. With the TIG method it was a quite a bit more time consuming and obviously induced a different amount of stress in the billet than just tacking the edges.

Thanks :)
 
Keeping your heat under control is paramount with Tig. If you over heat the pattern welded steel blends or flows together and the pattern goes away. I have made this mistake, twice.
With a Mig I use a fairly fast welding speed at the lowest heat functional and surface grind off the welds leaving a very shallow weld that usually scales off leaving no marks in the pattern.
With tool steels a preheat is helpful as well as a post heat cycle. Multiple passes with Mig is in itself a thermal cycling process...Take Care...Ed
 
Nothing wrong w/ using TIG, but it takes a little time, and you have to have things clean, and it will penetrate into the billet a little (according to amps used). MIG doesn't penetrate very much, is quick and dirty, and then grind off the top of the bead and throw it in the forge. I have both available and use MIG. But then the correct way to do things is to always do it whichever way works for you in your shop! No two people do things in the same exact way.
 
Well, now that I've done it, I'm not sure I'm sold that this is better than the way I was doing it. Maybe... I'll keep trying. :)

Still have to forge out the blade...but the billet is welded up and the I ground all the TIG fused area out, forged it flat, and ground the whole billet out to a fine trizact belt (for the sole purpose of checking for flaws). It all looks clean.

I gotta admit that only having done about a dozen of this type of billet, I always get nervous forging the blades to shape... I just can't seem to whallop on them like you can with something like a random pattern.

Okay... gonna go get it hot and whack on it with a hammer. ;) :)

Thanks for the help folks! :)

Bill, next time you do one maybe I can come watch and see how you do it. :)
 
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Nick, I used a 45 degree angle and lost some pattern. Tom says to use 30 degrees. I dry weld and use a mig and then grind most all the excess weld back off before forge welding. I would tig if I had one. Anxious to see what you come up with.
 
Nick,

I was trying to get the whole tig thing right, but all my welds were getting a fine little crack.. I was told it was because of the high carbon issues.. So, I have gone back to mig and haven't had any problems.... Sometimes simpler is better. I guess since I am simple.... Mig works better for me!! :)
 
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