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TIGER, tiger, burning bright...
- Thread starter Lorien
- Start date
Matthew Gregory
Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
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What immortal hand or eye shall frame thy fearful symmetry?
Them's some big blades, bro. Very nice, my friend...
Them's some big blades, bro. Very nice, my friend...
Gotta love Blake, but what are you trying to do? Class up this joint? 
Don't forget the...
What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
I do love those British poets! Thanks for the great title (and the sweet knives!)
Don't forget the...
What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
I do love those British poets! Thanks for the great title (and the sweet knives!)
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 28,391
Eric Ochs sent me this quartet of knives in order to provide him with some feedback on the designs, but mostly to get another man's impression of his Recon Tiger Makhaira, (hence the title of this thread) in particular.
Let me start with a basic run down on the specs;
12 1/2" blade flat ground from 1/4" thick CPM 3V, R/C 58.5- 59, triple tempered
5 1/2" handle, linen micarta and red spacers held with stainless pins
I'll follow up tomorrow with my impressions on using this knife for the purposes I normally use a big knife like this for, namely, creating trails through the forest.
Let me start with a basic run down on the specs;
12 1/2" blade flat ground from 1/4" thick CPM 3V, R/C 58.5- 59, triple tempered
5 1/2" handle, linen micarta and red spacers held with stainless pins
I'll follow up tomorrow with my impressions on using this knife for the purposes I normally use a big knife like this for, namely, creating trails through the forest.
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- May 5, 2010
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That is exactly what I was thinking a few months ago after talking with Lorien on the phone and why I thought he might be up for checking these out.
Gotta love Blake, but what are you trying to do? Class up this joint?
Don't forget the...
What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
I do love those British poets! Thanks for the great title (and the sweet knives!)
Lorien the Poet Chopper.
Looking forward to your impressions.Best to all,
Eric
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- May 26, 2005
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- 2,515
I really like the looks of Eric's blades. Looking forward to getting your impression Lorien and what you think while putting them to use. :thumbup:
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My first experience using the Recon Tiger was at night, as the first pic in this thread shows. It was not intensive, as we were just cruising the new trail which is called Bladerunner
D) and planning out where we needed to spend time and in what order of priority.
I wore gloves that night because it was cold and slippery and when you slip you put your hand down and I didn't want to damage my hands by impaling them on something, besides I wasn't going to be using a knife that much. I usually don't wear gloves when I'm working on trails. Wearing them created problems in that the handle for this knife is not very big and has no room to move your hand around. I found it very difficult to control the knife and keep it from twisting on impact. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. At first.
Eric and I talked about my concerns regarding the handle design, and he mentioned that it's a prototype and that changes to future design would occur. I told Eric that with a knife, the first impression is not always the one to trust, and that I'd get out for a more intensive trial when I got a chance.
The chance for this came on Sunday, where I had a 5 hour window to get some work done on the trail. The line is 85% complete, I just need to find a corridor through the bush to link the top of the trail to the lower section. I know where it will hook up, but there's a few hundred meters that still need to be nailed down.
The following pictures show where the upper portion of trail comes out to meet another new line;
Before;
After;
The pictures about unfortunately weren't taken from exactly the same vantage point, but you get the idea of what was going on. About 30-45 minutes of non stop chop. You can't wildly swing your blade around machete style here. All those lovely green leafy plants are called salal, and their leaves are like leather and their stems are like hemp rope. Extremely difficult to see the stems to aim your knife at as well. Very tough to cut and if you don't watch yourself, they'll pull your knife out of your hand and fling it back at you, (loppers are actually the best tool to deal with this plant, but you can't chop wood out of the way with loppers...). Most of the plants around here are extremely tough, and chopping through wood is actually easier work, even if it's Douglas Fir;
So that completes the picture of the type of use this knife saw while it was with me. I'll complete this thread with my final assessment of this knife and my impressions having used it. Then, sadly, I will have to return it to Eric. *(spoiler- I like it!)
D) and planning out where we needed to spend time and in what order of priority.I wore gloves that night because it was cold and slippery and when you slip you put your hand down and I didn't want to damage my hands by impaling them on something, besides I wasn't going to be using a knife that much. I usually don't wear gloves when I'm working on trails. Wearing them created problems in that the handle for this knife is not very big and has no room to move your hand around. I found it very difficult to control the knife and keep it from twisting on impact. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. At first.
Eric and I talked about my concerns regarding the handle design, and he mentioned that it's a prototype and that changes to future design would occur. I told Eric that with a knife, the first impression is not always the one to trust, and that I'd get out for a more intensive trial when I got a chance.
The chance for this came on Sunday, where I had a 5 hour window to get some work done on the trail. The line is 85% complete, I just need to find a corridor through the bush to link the top of the trail to the lower section. I know where it will hook up, but there's a few hundred meters that still need to be nailed down.
The following pictures show where the upper portion of trail comes out to meet another new line;
Before;
After;
The pictures about unfortunately weren't taken from exactly the same vantage point, but you get the idea of what was going on. About 30-45 minutes of non stop chop. You can't wildly swing your blade around machete style here. All those lovely green leafy plants are called salal, and their leaves are like leather and their stems are like hemp rope. Extremely difficult to see the stems to aim your knife at as well. Very tough to cut and if you don't watch yourself, they'll pull your knife out of your hand and fling it back at you, (loppers are actually the best tool to deal with this plant, but you can't chop wood out of the way with loppers...). Most of the plants around here are extremely tough, and chopping through wood is actually easier work, even if it's Douglas Fir;
So that completes the picture of the type of use this knife saw while it was with me. I'll complete this thread with my final assessment of this knife and my impressions having used it. Then, sadly, I will have to return it to Eric. *(spoiler- I like it!)
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I'm not sure when it was that I first saw Eric Ochs' knives, maybe about a year and a half ago.
One thing always struck a chord in me with his designs, and that was partly due to a Lum influence I saw in them. To me, Bob Lum has some of the most intriguing and clean designs of any knife maker I've ever seen. Any student of knife making can gain a lot from studying the austere but perfectly mated curves of Bob Lum's work, and a maker who takes inspiration from Lum's approach to design will get my attention right off the kick.
To do it well, however- and keep true to one's own aesthetic if well developed...well that's the hard part.
When talking to Eric, he made it clear to me that straight lines are something that he tries to avoid. They don't really exist much in the natural world, so why fight it? Go with the flow, I say, and Eric's designs have good basic flow. Couple that with inspiration from one of my favourite knife designers and it becomes clear that I'm stoked on Eric's knife making from a design perspective.
Well, that's all nice and cuddly, but how did the knife work? Roger's description of this knife as being a 'bush sword' is apt.
While the curvature of the blade's profile is reminiscent of the khukuri, the in-line handle keeps the point of the knife dancing. The benefit of the dropped belly becomes evident when chopping wood and stuff, but this knife feels quite light toward the tip, likely due to the high grind and upper swedge which removed a lot of mass. This agility allows one to make short, shearing cuts as it is fairly easy to arrest forward momentum.
The knives I usually use for this kind of work have +/- 10" blades, and this knife is quite a bit longer than that. On the one hand, I appreciated the additional reach, but on the other I found that maneuvering the longer blade while is was surrounded by plants was much more difficult than with the shorter knives I usually use. I had to change my approach somewhat and swung the knife through the vegetation like a machete, rather than have specific targets. Ultimately, I prefer my standard method as it feels more like pruning, but this big badass knife laid waste pretty well to all in its path.
I mentioned before that I had some issues with the handle design. After a good test in the forest, without gloves on, I found that I didn't think at all about the handle. It became one with my hand, and although I have in mind a number of modifications, the highest praise any working knife's handle can receive is that it is unnoticed while in use.
The edge holding of this knife was quite impressive. I hacked it messily into some nasty stuff and I'm pretty sure it hit the dirt once or twice. The toughness of the local flora puts a lot of lateral load on a knife from time to time, and this fella is none the worse for wear, edge-wise. The first thing I did when I received the Tiger, was swing it through an empty pop can. It flew through it like it wasn't there, so it was pretty sharp when it came. I've since repeated that 'test', and it appears that my foray into the wilds with this knife did no damage.
Once I finished hacking away at stuff on Sunday, I put the Tiger back into its nicely fitted kydex sheath. I didn't clean it. The pictures which follow show its condition after a few days of being stored wet and dirty in its sheath. I cleaned it just before I took these pictures;
Edge-on views;
A Pacific-Northwest beast of the rainforest!
I sadly must send this knife back, but I took this last picture for my hand, who will miss the Tiger when it's gone
One thing always struck a chord in me with his designs, and that was partly due to a Lum influence I saw in them. To me, Bob Lum has some of the most intriguing and clean designs of any knife maker I've ever seen. Any student of knife making can gain a lot from studying the austere but perfectly mated curves of Bob Lum's work, and a maker who takes inspiration from Lum's approach to design will get my attention right off the kick.
To do it well, however- and keep true to one's own aesthetic if well developed...well that's the hard part.
When talking to Eric, he made it clear to me that straight lines are something that he tries to avoid. They don't really exist much in the natural world, so why fight it? Go with the flow, I say, and Eric's designs have good basic flow. Couple that with inspiration from one of my favourite knife designers and it becomes clear that I'm stoked on Eric's knife making from a design perspective.
Well, that's all nice and cuddly, but how did the knife work? Roger's description of this knife as being a 'bush sword' is apt.
While the curvature of the blade's profile is reminiscent of the khukuri, the in-line handle keeps the point of the knife dancing. The benefit of the dropped belly becomes evident when chopping wood and stuff, but this knife feels quite light toward the tip, likely due to the high grind and upper swedge which removed a lot of mass. This agility allows one to make short, shearing cuts as it is fairly easy to arrest forward momentum.
The knives I usually use for this kind of work have +/- 10" blades, and this knife is quite a bit longer than that. On the one hand, I appreciated the additional reach, but on the other I found that maneuvering the longer blade while is was surrounded by plants was much more difficult than with the shorter knives I usually use. I had to change my approach somewhat and swung the knife through the vegetation like a machete, rather than have specific targets. Ultimately, I prefer my standard method as it feels more like pruning, but this big badass knife laid waste pretty well to all in its path.
I mentioned before that I had some issues with the handle design. After a good test in the forest, without gloves on, I found that I didn't think at all about the handle. It became one with my hand, and although I have in mind a number of modifications, the highest praise any working knife's handle can receive is that it is unnoticed while in use.
The edge holding of this knife was quite impressive. I hacked it messily into some nasty stuff and I'm pretty sure it hit the dirt once or twice. The toughness of the local flora puts a lot of lateral load on a knife from time to time, and this fella is none the worse for wear, edge-wise. The first thing I did when I received the Tiger, was swing it through an empty pop can. It flew through it like it wasn't there, so it was pretty sharp when it came. I've since repeated that 'test', and it appears that my foray into the wilds with this knife did no damage.
Once I finished hacking away at stuff on Sunday, I put the Tiger back into its nicely fitted kydex sheath. I didn't clean it. The pictures which follow show its condition after a few days of being stored wet and dirty in its sheath. I cleaned it just before I took these pictures;
Edge-on views;
A Pacific-Northwest beast of the rainforest!
I sadly must send this knife back, but I took this last picture for my hand, who will miss the Tiger when it's gone
black mamba
Gold Member
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Lovely big chopper there, Lorien. I see some Jerry Hossom influence in the Ochs as well, both blade and handle.
I spoke to Dan Koster (who uses 3V a lot) at the Blade Show last summer, and he said the sweet spot for 3V is 60-61, which makes the edge holding you experienced a couple points below this even more impressive.
Thanks loads for the write up.
I spoke to Dan Koster (who uses 3V a lot) at the Blade Show last summer, and he said the sweet spot for 3V is 60-61, which makes the edge holding you experienced a couple points below this even more impressive.
Thanks loads for the write up.
Matthew Gregory
Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
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RC 60-61 would have 20% less toughness as Eric's choice does, which is likely smarter for a long blade like this, as it will experience torsional forces with enough leverage to be a concern. 3V was truly meant for big stuff like this!
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I love Jerry Hossom's work so thank you for that comment. I actually have made smaller working blade and have the heat treat done at RC 60+/- but there are trade offs...
Thanks Matthew for the explaination you knew exactly why I went a little lower on this big blade. Actually, as I understand it from discussions with Paul Bos the edge holding increases are there but are fairly minor within RC 58.5-61 range in comparison to the rather dramatic increase in toughness.
Lorien,
Glad to hear the pop can test worked well at the end like when you received it. The 3V is quite amazing stuff with the right tempering and I have been very impressed with its edge holding, cutting and the sheer power toughness it has. I appreciate your kind words and am glad to hear you found a good groove with the Recon Tiger.
Best to All,
Eric
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I feel really bad about the last little batch of pictures. Really wanted to not drag this thread too long with posting the things I wanted to post, but I shat the bed with those night time indoor photos which always make me wanna puke.
Fortunately, there is excellent lighting outside today! We got some snow and there's a nice layer of cloud up there making for nature's perfect lightbox. That's no guarantee these pictures will be good because of that, but favorable conditions can make any hack's feeble attempts look their best at least.
I tried to capture the look of the edge bevel where it received the most abuse and apart from a wee shine looking straight on at the edge for a few millimeters there are no dents, rolls or chips. I have no doubt this knife could survive any test that Lynn Thomson might dream up.
Fortunately, there is excellent lighting outside today! We got some snow and there's a nice layer of cloud up there making for nature's perfect lightbox. That's no guarantee these pictures will be good because of that, but favorable conditions can make any hack's feeble attempts look their best at least.
I tried to capture the look of the edge bevel where it received the most abuse and apart from a wee shine looking straight on at the edge for a few millimeters there are no dents, rolls or chips. I have no doubt this knife could survive any test that Lynn Thomson might dream up.
Matthew Gregory
Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
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- 6,529
I'd like to take a moment here and explain to folks just how nasty this particular steel is to finish... it will hold an errant scratch like mad, is pretty much untouched by anything other than the most expensive of grinding supplies, and I think actually has a personal vendetta against me.
It's one of my favorite as well as my most reviled knife steels. This blade looks great - I tip my hat to you, Mr. Ochs.
It's one of my favorite as well as my most reviled knife steels. This blade looks great - I tip my hat to you, Mr. Ochs.