Tigershark steel?

Since I don't always stick my nose here in the SOG Forum, someone has to email me if my infinite knowledge-base is needed. ;)

Talking about my knowledge, I don't think there were any powder coated carbon steel blades (on any knife). Maybe for one year on the Tigershark (the first year of powder coating)...but I doubt that. Well, I'm kinda on the fence.

I can say with 100% certainty that there were non-serrated, powder coated Tigersharks in stainless steel! And that steel is AUS6.

It's very possible I addressed this in a post back when I worked for SOG. Someone can research it if they want.
 
Hey Ron I was just reading about the Tigershark evolution "in an old post of yours". Wasn't there a Midnight Tiger in there at some point? A gun blued carbon steel Tigershark I think it was. But I was just wondering if you remember if it was made before the power coated carbon steel Tigershark or at the same time? Thanx.
 
BubbaGanew said:
Hey Ron I was just reading about the Tigershark evolution "in an old post of yours". Wasn't there a Midnight Tiger in there at some point? A gun blued carbon steel Tigershark I think it was. But I was just wondering if you remember if it was made before the power coated carbon steel Tigershark or at the same time? Thanx.
The midnite Tiger was way before the powder coat Tiger, about 1990.
Vince

MidTiger.jpg


SOGTech2Carbon.jpg
 
SIRGALANT said:
i was right that its carbon steel .


"In the evolution of the Tigershark, we added the gray powder coating about three years ago and sometime after that, switched the blade from carbon steel to AUS6 (to match the SEAL Knife) for better corrosion resistance. But that wasn't enough to "bring it into the SEAL family." About two years ago, in talking with US Cavalry, they ordered some Tigersharks (as just described in this paragraph) with 3" of serrations .........."

I don't know why you would assume that Gshock300's Tigershark is carbon steel. According to the paragraph above both the carbon steel Tigershark and the stainless steel Tigershark were made with the grey powder coating in non serrated models. Therefore according to the paragraph above Gshock300's Tigershark could be carbon steel but it could also be AUS6. If you were a betting man you should put your money on it being AUS6 because there were more of them made than the carbon steel model.
 
Vince is correct on the Midnight Tiger...along with the date. It maybe was a tad earlier, but not by much (1988-1990??) with maybe a couple year production run. It might have gone as many as 4-5 years.

It gets a little fuzzy for me remembering some of these dates because SOG might have had surplus knives in stock but had stopped making them (even stopped advertising them) and I remember seeing them in inventory for years after manufacturing had ceased. Also, when working at SOG, I'd research info like this and post "hard" facts. I just don't have access to that info these days. I also had sources that are just not available anymore. You'd be surprised at key SOG personnel who just don't know some of this. In answering this type of stuff for you guys back when I was Ron@SOG, I'd have to do some serious reseach to get the answers you guys expect. So, I think I remember seeing some Midnight Tigers remaining in stock shortly after joining SOG's management back in 1997. This scenario would make some of these knives technically remaining in inventory for years because customers just didn't know a few of them were still available (thus they "couldn't" buy what they didn't know about). Also at that time, SOG wasn't running an in-house retail department (we were selling accessories, but not knives), so clearing out some of these knives was quite difficult. Shortly after being hired, I started SOG's retail department while I was overhauling departments I managed (due to my skills and background, you can say I was hired as a "reformer" of sorts). A little later, in an expansion of SOG's retail department, I started and developed the factory seconds program around 2002. In that era, this was the best evolution that could have happened to SOG's retail program! There were many knives that remained in stock for years after production ended. The Yellowhorse Paratool is a prime example of a "knife" most customers had no idea was still available (I wouldn't be surprised if some are still there!...but in this case, no one really wanted this knife). All this brings up a good point. If you want a discontinued knife, it would certainly be worth checking with SOG's retail personnel to see if any remain for sale. Also, just don't take their word for it. Some of these staff members are good-hearted and wonderful customer service staff members, but from my experience, it is hard for one person to have "all" the answers and most of them are new enough that they haven't had the time to invest in learning all the history (they're still working on product names and prices...even some specifications). So ask them to ask a manager, go back to see for themselves, and/or ask the shipping supervisor to look ("eyes-on" is the ONLY WAY!). The warehouse is a large enough area with LOTS of stock. Often, some of these discontinued product can be stuffed back in a dark corner.

Sorry, I digressed...That can happen sometimes with me...Is it old age? My father-in-law (67 years old) will talk about old cars for HOURS! :rolleyes: ...I have zillions of stories like this...

SOG also ran a few other blued knives around that time. Knives that readily come to mind are the Nite Tech, Recon Government (a little later, I think), along with the Midnight Tiger. The Recon Government had a long production run through much of the 1990's. These blued knives ran concurrently with their standard counterparts.

Regarding SOG's use of carbon steel, I'm sure you guys know that the only carbon steel SOG has ever used is SK-5.

Bubbaganew has it very correct with this statement (based on my quote from the earlier post back in 2002):
According to the paragraph above both the carbon steel Tigershark and the stainless steel Tigershark were made with the grey powder coating in non serrated models. Therefore according to the paragraph above Gshock300's Tigershark could be carbon steel but it could also be AUS6. If you were a betting man you should put your money on it being AUS6 because there were more of them made than the carbon steel model.
I don't have the stats, but my "gut" says anywhere from 50% each (carbon versus AUS6) to 75% AUS6. It would basically come down to the number of years this generation of the Tigershark was produced (powder coated, non-serrated). Production numbers stayed relatively consistent. Example: if it ran for three years, 66.6% would be AUS6. I'd bet on it being either 3 or 4 years. After this period of time, the serrations came.

Someone's got to email me when my help is needed. I miss quite a lot in this forum.
 
Awesome Stuff here !!
Ron, what a great source you are, having been in the trenches.
And Vince too, with all those old catalogs to provide info and pictures by calendar year.

Cheers,

Carl

p.s. HEY CHRIS@SOG, I sincerely hope you are cutting&pasting this stuff into the SOG files and databases for historical and archival purposes.
This is the kind of info that can set SOG Customer Service lightyears ahead of the competition. Why ?? Because there is obviously a group of folks very interested in this sort of history.
 
Ron Andersen said:
Since I don't always stick my nose here in the SOG Forum, someone has to email me if my infinite knowledge-base is needed. ;)

Talking about my knowledge, I don't think there were any powder coated carbon steel blades (on any knife). Maybe for one year on the Tigershark (the first year of powder coating)...but I doubt that. Well, I'm kinda on the fence.

I can say with 100% certainty that there were non-serrated, powder coated Tigersharks in stainless steel! And that steel is AUS6.

It's very possible I addressed this in a post back when I worked for SOG. Someone can research it if they want.


Ron I understand you have a great background for the history of SOG but I have to disagree with you on a couple of things here. Unless the catalogs I have, which include original SOG literature are all wrong; then SOG used 440A on most of the fixed blades through part of the 1990's following the use of SK-5.

I have old catalogs in the 1990’s from SOG itself as well as the Cutlery Shoppe and other wholesalers that I deal with showing the TigerShark as well as most of the other fixed blades (excluding the Trident and S1 Bowie) being made of 440A. This was after the TigerShark was made from SK-5 Carbon Steel and when it was first introduced with the Powder coating without serrations and then later with serrations. No mention of the use of AUS-6a shows up until 2004 in anything I have.

This includes multiple sources of information from at least four different companies most notibly SOG.

Vince
 
New Pig Hunter said:
Awesome Stuff here !!
Ron, what a great source you are, having been in the trenches.
And Vince too, with all those old catalogs to provide info and pictures by calendar year.

Cheers,

Carl

p.s. HEY CHRIS@SOG, I sincerely hope you are cutting&pasting this stuff into the SOG files and databases for historical and archival purposes.
This is the kind of info that can set SOG Customer Service lightyears ahead of the competition. Why ?? Because there is obviously a group of folks very interested in this sort of history.

The problem is that most companies, and I am definately not trying to knock SOG on this are not interested in what is old and has already been sold. They are in business to sell new items not catagorize old ones, so if they did not keep up with it over the years it does not get done. Very few companies ever have kept up with their own history. I collected a lot of Gerber over the years and helped several other collectors develop history on the Mark II, the Paul knife and the Silver Knight series. I got a little bit of help from one Gerber old timer and other than that it was like pulling teeth and involved a lot of detective work. SO since the mid to late 1980's I have tryed to keep some documentation like old catalogs on companies that intertested me like Gerber, SOG, Al Mar, BenchMark, Benchmade, Spyderco Blackjack and a few others. But I have also discovered some puzzling discrepencies over the years which just can't be proved out one way or the other.

Vince
 
Hey Vince I think I know were your coming from. The way I understand it from reading past posts and threads is that Sog always used AUS6 and not 440A. The reason for the reference to 440A in broachers and catalogs is what you might call a "translation". Because Sogs were (and some models still are) made in Japan they were made with AUS6 a Japanese steel but the buying non Japanese public was not failure with AUS6. So Sog decided to "translate" AUS6 into the closes match and more familiar 440A. Now as you know with some translations it never works out exactly. In doing so they got in trouble with a few customers because 440A is slightly superior to AUS6 so some customers cried fowl. I don't think Sog did this with any malicious intent but as the old saying goes "Know good deed will go unpunished" so they now used the not so failure AUS6. Now I could have this all wrong ( It wouldn't be the first time.) but I think this is what happened.
 
vjb.knife said:
Ron I understand you have a great background for the history of SOG but I have to disagree with you on a couple of things here. Unless the catalogs I have, which include original SOG literature are all wrong; then SOG used 440A....Vince
Hey Vince...I'm sorry to disagree with you, but SOG never used 440A or 440C in any of their knives. The catalogs were "nearly" right. As BubbaGanew said, this is a topic I've address a number of times in the past here on the forums.

440 steels are US made. AUS steels are Japanese steels. It would make sense for issues related to cost that SOG used steels that were readily available in Japan, rather than importing steel from the US.

I know there is disagreement on this, but there is a "similarity" (not "exact") between 440A and AUS6 as well as between 440C and AUS8. Since the US market didn't know much about Japanese steels back then, SOG chose to use "nearly equivalent" steel designations that the US DID understand....such as 440A for AUS6. Whether or not that was a good decision, it is what SOG did. Once the Japanese steels became more popular and recognizable domestically, SOG made a change in their marketing material.

SOG was one of a handful of companies at that time who was doing this.

If you want, you can do a search on this and find more material.

Sorry to disagree with you (that wasn't my motivation)...just trying to keep the record straight. I am a "walking SOG encycolopedia." ;)
 
See if you can get it to rust, nick a small spot somewhere. Then you'll know if it is carbon or stainless.
 
OK now I understand what went on with the 440A vs AUS6. No big deal but I guess I never heard that story before. It makes sence that they would use a Japanese steel for knives made in Japan rather than the 440A. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Guys.

Concerning the rusting of stainless in the previous post, to assume that a particular steel will not rust if it is designated stainless is a really bad assumption as even most Stainless steels will rust under the right conditions. Especially the high carbon SS typically used in knives. Take virtually any martensitic SS knife and leave it in a tub of salt water for several weeks and I guarantee you will not be happy with the results. Of course you could better corrossion resistance from 300 series SS but you will never get an edge capable of cutting much more than banannas.

Vince
 
Yup...Vince is correct. SS can/will rust! It is, though, good at resisting rust. Personally, I think it should more accurately be called "rust resistant steel."

From my experience, most SS that I've seen rust has been seriously neglected. Here are several cases I've seen:
  • A hunter will go on his yearly ritual. It is rainy and gloomy and cold. After he freezes his butt off and doesn't get anything, he comes home with his tail between his legs and "throws" all his gear into the garage (hopefully he'll at least clean his gun). The following year, with great anticipation, he'll get out all his gear, wash his hunting clothes, and organize everything perfectly. During the process, he'll pull his knife out of its sheath and find it all rusted! Twelve months ago, he should have taken his knife out of its sheath, cleaned it off, and oiled it well. And idealistically, he should have then stored it safely outside the sheath until it's needed again (he at least should have let the sheath dry out before storing his knife in it for 12 months unattended).
  • A fisherman will be out on his boat for a couple week vacation in some hot, humid salt water location. By accident, he dropped his multitool over the edge while tied up at the dock. He dives over the edge, happily finds it, and stows it away. Maybe a few weeks later, he's back out on his boat and he gets his multitool out of its storage locker to find it difficult to open, with rust in the pivots. He should have washed it out with fresh water and lubed it up well.
The stories could go on and on. Yes, SS can/will rust.
 
Vince,
i just recently purchased a Midnite Tiger on ebay. It has what appears to be the cordura sheath (I am impatiently waiting for the knife's arrival so I cannot give a difinitive answer). I noticed in the photos in your post what appears to be a blued (more accurately blackened) Tigershark with Midnite Tiger printed on the box. However this one is shown with the leather sheath. Did the Midnite TS come with the leather sheath? Was the cordura sheath only supplied with the Cutlery Shoppe version? Is either version more exclusive or both equally available in their production run?

Thanks for your attention to this. Any information would be helpful and much appreciated.
Best regards,
Denny
300WSM
 
Ron,
I wanted to get your considerably knowledgable opinion on this question that I posed to Vince. I do not have this knife (a Midnite Tiger) yet as I just purchased it and it has yet to arrive.

I just spoke to the owner of the Cutlery Shoppe (Jeff Loffer) who remembers the Midnite Tiger. He said that it was made exclusively for his company and only came with a cordura sheath. He said that he sold them for a few years 15-16 years ago. He does not have any in old stock except from his personal collection which he said were definitely not for sale. He did not know how many were sold except he thought there were quite a few. I am trying to acquire as much complete info as possible as I had a thought about powdercoating the SK-5 blade of this knife for my personal use. However, if it is a collectable with considerable value, I may change my mind.

I just received the knife and have it laying on the table before me. First, it has a deeply blackened blade (not blued, bluing requires a different process and actually looks blue and is commonly called rust or straw blue, it is rarely done today). It has a cordura sheath but it is marked Gerber, Portland, OR on the A.L.I.C.E. clip (it looks like an A.L.I.C.E. to me) which is on the back of the sheath. The sheath is very heavy duty and is in excellent condition. The knife fits in the sheath with a little play side to side otherwise it fits perfectly. Is this the Midnite Tiger as it came from SOG? Blade inscription is SOG Specialty Knives in a box with EDM, WA directly underneath the box. SEKI-JAPAN is inscripted on the opposite side. If needed I can supply digital photos if my membership allows it.

Thanks for your attention to this. Any information is very helpful to me.
Best regards,
Denny
300WSM
 
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