Tight lipped guarded secret no pun intended

J

jtwodogs

Joined
Feb 1, 2009
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I have been asking around for about a year now. Different Bowie makers that I have enjoyed seeing their work about how they do their guards.
The guards that I am seeing on some of the quality Bowies are not what is found in the knife making supply companies from what I can see.
And it seems that when I ask, so many just go mute.

With the very minimal tools I have to work with ie, no end mill. I may not be able to manufacture one of the finer stainless steel ones I see. I have done a brass one only because brass is so soft and easier to work with hand tools.

Is there someone out there that specializes in making them. I understand it is most likely very labor intensive and for that reason alone would and could be a costly endeavor, but if you are making an heirloom piece for someone then the cost maybe justified.
I would just like to have that option, if it is available.
Thanks for everyone's input to my question a head of time.
 
You have been met with silence because there is nothing to say.

The guards used by the high end bowie makers are made by themselves. There is no supplier or fittings maker here in the USA like in Japan, where the fittings( Koshirae) are made by a separate craftsman than the blade maker. We are a country of do-it-yourselfers.

Stainless may be a bit harder to saw and file, but nickel silver ( white brass) is easy to work.

Start with a perfect fit to the tang, and add the other details after the fit-up. Careful filing, and taking your time are the way to go. Also, start with a good sketch or cardboard template.
 
Thanks Stacy.
I have in the past looked for Nickel/Silver bar stock and unable to find anything thicker then 3/8th's of an inch.
 
I don't think a pre-made guard blank would really be appropriate for an heirloom-quality custom Bowie to begin with. Making a guard from bar stock is one of the basic skills a maker should have, if he intends to work at that level.
 
Thanks Justin for your advice. But at some point I have to do with the tools that I can afford at the moment.
 
jtwodogs said:
Thanks Stacy.
I have in the past looked for Nickel/Silver bar stock and unable to find anything thicker then 3/8th's of an inch.
Click to expand...

3/8" is more than thick enough. Most of the guards I make start out as 1/4" or less damascus bar stock.
 
One of the best hand tools is a File Guide to ensure that your corners are square and lines are straight and press fit tight to the tang.
 
If you want a guard with a thicker bolster area, use two or more pieces. They are often spaced with a thin black spacer ( G-10) or a copper spacer. If a metal spacer is used, it is often file worked or reeded. Look at a lot of photos of the bowies and larger knives with full finger guards and you will now see how they get those big thick collars/bolsters. Nick Wheeler's tutorials and videos show the assembly very well.
 
I agree with the advice already given. I can't speak to the experiences you mentioned about makers not sharing how they do their guards. Was it in reference to a particular guard style (d-guard, double or single, forged, etc.)? Or was it how they go about fitting the guard to the blade? If you had a particular guard type in mind, it would likely be helpful for more specific answers if you posted some photos.

As for tooling-don't sell yourself short. There are many makers that don't have all sorts of power tools and grinders that make very nice knives. Matter of fact, there are makers that only use files and such and are at or near the top of the knife making world. I saved for quite a while before I ended up piecing together a 2x72 grinder. It was draw filing before that.

I also didn't have a mill to do guards. If the fit up is one of the things you're asking about, try this:
-Measure your tang dimensions right up against the shoulders of the blade.
-Transfer those measurements to the face of your guard blank/bar stock.
-Use a punch to make small dimples inside the outer measurements along the center line of the future guard (you may end up with 3 or 4 punch marks depending on the height of the tang. These will help keep the small drill bits from wandering as you start the holes.)
-Drill a hole that is less than the thickness of your tang (there's a theme starting here) on the center line at each punched mark.
-Get yourself a jewelers saw and put the blade through one of the holes and re-attach it to the saw frame. Now you can saw through the webbing and your slot is now taking shape.
-Since you drilled holes inside the height of the tang and thinner than the width, you can begin the task of filing the slot to be a seamless press fit up to the shoulders.
-As was mentioned, go slow, keep checking for the nice fit you're looking for, so you don't file away too much material and overshoot and you'll end up with a great looking joint without gaps. Then you can get to shaping the stock to whatever design you want and that is very easily obtained with some files and rasps of various size and dimensions.

I hope that helps in some way.


Jeremy
 
I would chime in and perhaps disagree with some of he comments abut which guard material is easier to work, I have not used brass but I have found that "harder" materiels like 416ss, mild steel and damascus are easier to machine and file clean and tight compared to "gummier" stuff like 300 series stainless and NS. Your mileage may vary.;)
 
jdm61 - Agreed, most normal guard materials work fine with basic tools.

The only tools needed to do a guard are:
1) Something to drill a precise hole. A small used $30 drill press is fine. A few each of reasonably good drill bits in 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 will do 99% of all guard and handle drilling.
2) something to mark straight lines and measure accurately. A Harbor Freight or equivalent micrometer for $10 will do just fine.
3) Something to make the cuts between the holes. A $20 jewelers saw frame and a gross of #2 saw blades for it will last a long time ( about another $20). You will break more blades on your first two guards than on the next 20.
4) Something to slowly fit the guard and make the slot smooth. A few good needle files are all you need. A 4" barrette file and a 4" equaling ( flat) file are the most useful. Purchasing a cheap set is a waste. get two or three good ones and forget the Chinese crap sets. You will spent nearly the same money, but will get much more use from good files. Grobet, Valtitan, and other jewelry brands are the best.
5) Time and patience. Drill holes precisely on punched starter spots. Make every saw cut or file stroke slow and smooth. Slightly lift the saw/file from the metal on the return stroke. Use a sawing board ( a sturdy fixed slat with a "V" in the end).
Tip #1- saw metal on then pull stroke (down), never on a push stroke. Work SLOWLY, lifting the saw/file off the surface each stroke so it doesn't try to file backwards ( Sawing or filing "back and forth" will kill a saw blade or file fast). File a little, test fit, file a little more. Sneak up until it is just a little too tight, and quit. A perfect fit should just require a slight tap to seat it snug.
Tip #2 - Most tangs are slightly thinner at the ricasso because you have been sanding and polishing there and there is a bit of an overlap. This is why many newer ( an some older) makers have a gap at the guard. When done with the blade surface basic sanding, but before the final grits, put the filing jig on the ricasso to touch up the tang shoulders. After you do the shoulders, taper the tang from the butt to the ricasso with a taper of .020". The perfect taper ends at the ricasso with a tiny lip ( about .005" smaller than the ricasso). This makes fitting a seamless guard a pleasure.
Tip #3 - If a guard isn't fitting right, set it aside and make another. the old one can be used for a future knife.
Don't ruin a good knife with a sloppy guard. It is the first place a maker/buyer/collector who knows a thing or two will look at if you show the knife.

All the tools run about $100 and will last for years as well as have other knife making and hobby uses. What is needed most is patience and practice.
 
Great run-through, thanks Stacy!
I'm not sure it's good in every situation, but when I'm sawing 410/416 stainless, I use a bit of beeswax as a lube now and then.
 
I learned alot from Stacy's description and the video about fitting a guard. I tried to do a search for Nick Wheeler where he was actually making the guard. That is what I am trying to learn at this time. I could not come up with anything, maybe I am doing the search wrong.
 
Shaping a guard can be done using the same basic tools and methods used for making blades. Some guys forge them, some shape them by stock removal. They can also be cast, which is usually the case with pre-made guards and pommels that you get from a knifemakers supply.
I make them mostly by stock removal, although forging or heating and bending is useful at times.
A band saw, hacksaw, 2x72 grinder (with small wheels) and a good selection of files are the main tools I use, in addition to my drill press for drilling out the tang slot, as described in other replies. The band saw and small wheel grinder are conveniences, and essentially just speed up the same processes that would otherwise be accomplished with the hacksaw and files, so there is no real requirement for special-purpose tools or expensive equipment if you are willing to invest some patience and elbow grease.
 
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i refuse to use needle files, little bastards kill my fingers.

I do much the same, I drill holes in a line, then using ChainSaw files (STIHL brand, get em, they're awesome, and NOT terribly expensive) to connect the lines.

then I take a 6" bastard file ground down a bit to fit in the slot I open it out to match the tang, I want a press fit onto the tapered tang so i stop filing once it's about 1/8 from the shoulders

then I drive it on with a hammer using a piece of poplar that I've sawn a slot out of to go on both sides of the tang.

After all fit up I clean the guard face, and use templates to scribe the shape of the finished guard.
 
As you may have noticed from the responses, making the slot first and then shaping the guard around the slot is far simpler than trying to cut a slot EXACTLY in the center of the guard (which isn't likely to happen).
 
Yes sir, I see your point on that Stacy, that is what I did on my last one.
Will the 2.0 Jeweler blades you mentioned work on stainless steel? Did you have a particular brand in mind? Thanks Stacy.
 
As others have said you can do anything with hand tools, but here is some more food for thought. You can master this craft without a single power tool, but you will never be a master of this craft if you don't master your hand tools.
 
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