Time, tempering, and standing on one leg

bikermikearchery

bikermikearchery

Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
1,976
I have been trying to figure out ways to do things so I don't have to wait any more. For 2 years now I have been recovering from a cycle accident that near took off my leg.:mad: The good news is that I will recover the bad news is 2 years has gone by and I'm still recovering.:grumpy:(and yes the Harley is fixed:D) I have been able to use this time to gain a better understanding of what is going on with my steel,:cool: but you know the saying that,
" A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring. There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.":foot::yawn:
So heres the situation I'm still on crutches, my shop is very crowded, hard to get around in, and I'm just plain slow. The shop is not connected to the house and at the current time I still must use the kitchen oven to temper. Until I get a leg up :rolleyes: I wont be able to get a oven added to the shop.
As I understand with my choice of steels (O1, 5160, 8670M) I need to get the steel from the quench in to a tempering oven before the steel has dropped below 125f.
The question, Can I hold the steel at above 125f for a time without Introducing more stress? 212f ?
The plan, I have a cart and a boiler that I can move well while on crutches. When the blades are removed from the quench I want to put them in boiling water and keep them there in till I can make the trip to the oven for there first tempering cycle. This keeps the blades warm and also cleans off the oil.
Thanks for any Ideas. Mike
 
It might be easier to get a toaster oven for the shop. Put a brick in it to get consistant temperature .
 
I just posted in another thread about waiting to temper O1. I always have to wait about 2 hours to temper (I quench at work, and temper at home). My knives (all 6 that I've made from O1) get down to room temperature, and I've never had a crack (I've even checked for microscopic cracking and have had none). I am currently tempering a blade I heat treated last night. I am no expert, and I'd recommend tempering as fast as possible, but I think if it's the only way, it's fine to wait a little while.
 
Thanks mete I know that is the proper fix, I just really have a problem with mobility right now. First thing I'm doing when I can put weight on this leg is cleaning and reorganizing the work spaces. Looking for the fix I can use now.

michaelmcgo I have done that before and gotten away with is but on the last batch of blades I had 3 O1 blades crack. they were very thin blades. That was out of a batch of 8. I think that it was due to a few problems but I don't care to repeat mistakes. I used thick 5160 for years and never had one crack.
Thanks for the reply. Mike
 
I do think that thickness has a lot to do with cracking in general, I think it may also be because the blade heats up faster and has a better chance to heat up unevenly.

I am not recommending not tempering ASAP by any means. I am recommending waiting on the temper if it means that's the only way you are able to make knives. The toaster oven is a great way, we used to have one at work until my boss took it for his toast... knives are way better than toast.
 
I think that in general you will be fine. If you water quench, you'll be in a world of hurt but i've yet to have a blade crack by not getting it in the oven fast enough, and i've let some go overnight by force....I would also go the toaster oven route.

How thick are you leaving the blade edge pre-HT? Perhaps you can leave a bit more meat on them to reduce the risk?
 
Are you using an oven, or other means to soak your steel at a given temp? 01, and 5160, need a controled soak.
 
Got to go with the toaster-oven. got mine at Salvation-Army for $5.00. the oven thermometer from Wally world was $8.00. throw in a brick bring to temp and have ready to temper. Hasn't failed me yet. Its a low cost solution that takes up very little room and would save you alot of walking. I also lined my oven with ceramic wool to help hold the heat. Will hold steady at 425f for 2 hour cycles.
 
Well It looks like the toaster oven will win this round. I'll have to put it on the tool cart so I cam move it around. I really am pinched for space till I can get on 2 feet and fix the mess that has happened since I got hurt.
I'm still curios about holding the steel at 214 degrees for half an hour. The boiling detergent idea seamed like a good fix to 2 problems. steel gets cleaned and the temperate doesn't drop to ambient.
 
Mike, to answer part of your question,
It is not a real problem to bring the steel to room temperature and wait a reasonable time to do the temper. Some steels, when water quenched, can be a worry for spontaneous cracking, but O-1 will wait until you are ready. Moving a pot of boiling water , while on crutches, is a sure fire way of ending up with a matching pair of bad legs.

I second the toaster over for a quick first temper in the shop. Just do it about 25 degrees below your target temper and do the second temper in the house at the temper desired.
Stacy

BTW, I know what it is like to be off your feet and champing at the bit to be doing stuff.In January 1971 I smashed my leg from the knee to the hip. It took 11 months to get upright again, and two years to really be moving right. Now that I'm 58, the damage is starting to come back and haunt me. Knee job this Friday.
 
Thanks Stacy
I actually had a little better plan, cart w/ wheels, a long rope, and a clamp down lid on the boiler.
Wasn't quenching in water. Quenched in oil. The idea was from oil quench to a boiling detergent bath. Clean oil free blades. Just an idea.

Have said prayer for your knee. God bless.
Mike
 
Thanks Mike,
The thought of you pulling the cart with the pot of boiling water ( sort of a one legged dog sled team), with the rope around you, just brings a grin to me.
Just boil/wash the blades to get them clean, and take them to the house when you are ready to. They will not crack on their own.
Stacy

I have a bit of a warped sense of humor sometimes.
I have a temporary handicapped pass to hang in my car. I also have a 4 foot long white cane in the car (A memento from a blind friend who has no need for it anymore,RIP). I occasionally pull into a HC parking spot, hang the sign on the rear view mirror, get out with dark glasses and the white cane, and tap my way to the store. People will do some hysterical double takes. Having had several blind friends, i can fake the "straight ahead gaze" pretty good.
Take care -Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
I have a bit of a warped sense of humor sometimes.
I have a temporary handicapped pass to hang in my car. I also have a 4 foot long white cane in the car (A memento from a blind friend who has no need for it anymore,RIP). I occasionally pull into a HC parking spot, hang the sign on the rear view mirror, get out with dark glasses and the white cane, and tap my way to the store. People will do some hysterical double takes. Having had several blind friends, i can fake the "straight ahead gaze" pretty good.
Take care -Stacy
Click to expand...

:D LMFAO Stacy you are funny! Good luck with your knee surgery!
 
I've heat treated O-1 with a marquench at around 400 degrees and cool to room temperature, as well as quench all the way down to oil temperature before cooling down to room temperature, and I've had no issues with cracking even with waiting several hours to temper. My toaster oven has temp holding issues, so I use the household oven for a 400 degree temper. I'll have to try the brick in the oven tip. Thanks guys!


Off topic a bit, but....Stacy, are you in for a total knee this week? Or are they just going to go in and clean you out? If it's just a clean up, I call dibs on any blades, blade fragments, or knife knowledge they dredge out of there :D.

Regardless, the best advice I can give is to get your flexion back as quickly as you can tolerate, and don't loose your extension by propping a pillow under your knee all the time (even though it feels good). If it's a total knee, you'll probably find little trouble in getting back on your feet quickly (mostly I see patients on their feet without the walker in around a week or less), but the harder part is getting moving again. Stretch, stretch, stretch. Remember, today's total knees almost exclusively use cement for the job, and it's pretty much as hard as it is going to get by the time you get home. And they don't really cut any major musculature in the surgery, more they just roughly stretch it out of the way. You'll be sore, but you don't have to worry about tearing anything up.

Of course, this advice is given blindly without knowing what you're in for, so take it with a grain of salt. And always follow your doc's advice over mine. I've read your posts long enough on this board to feel that I know a piece of you, and that piece tells me that you've got enough toughness with a touch of orneriness that you'll be fine. Hope that doesn't overstep on my part. Good luck on the knee, and God bless.


--nathan
 
Thanks Nathan,
It is a scope job. The Doc just wanted to throw in a new knee ( easier for him), but agreed that arthroscopic would do fine for probably 4-5 years (easier for me).
I deliberately do not prop up the knee, or avoid use now. After the surgery, I'll take four days to let the incisions heal up, but flex the knee and give it light use as much as it will allow. I plan on giving it full use starting Tuesday,to prevent any loss of extension and ability. Sure it will hurt (he!!, it hurts now), but it will be a healing hurt. I have an enormously high pain tolerance, and will do fine,I believe. I'll email you any questions about exercises if I need some. I also have enough medical knowledge and background to know if the pain is a complication or normal rehabilitation ( But I'm also willing to let the doctor earn his salary with a phone call if I have questions!)

I will ask the surgeon to put a disc/tape in the monitor and make me a copy of the scope work.

Nathan, you might be interested in the fact that when he finally does a full knee replacement, he said he can take some exact measurements and have the knee special made to lengthen the leg and take out a slight inward twist to the knee (by-products of the original comminuted femur and IMP.

Mike - Sorry to hijack your thread, but .....lets see........ Oh,Yeah......I had a knife in my pocket when I broke the leg. (That makes this a knife related post)

Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
Thanks Mike,
The thought of you pulling the cart with the pot of boiling water ( sort of a one legged dog sled team), with the rope around you, just brings a grin to me.
Just boil/wash the blades to get them clean, and take them to the house when you are ready to. They will not crack on their own.
Stacy

I have a bit of a warped sense of humor sometimes.
I have a temporary handicapped pass to hang in my car. I also have a 4 foot long white cane in the car (A memento from a blind friend who has no need for it anymore,RIP). I occasionally pull into a HC parking spot, hang the sign on the rear view mirror, get out with dark glasses and the white cane, and tap my way to the store. People will do some hysterical double takes. Having had several blind friends, i can fake the "straight ahead gaze" pretty good.
Take care -Stacy
Click to expand...

LOL I needed that laugh to.
Stacy you cant hijack my thread I'll listen to anything you have to say, its all relevant one way or another. I have come close to loosing the leg twice, once from the original accident and once from infection. 9 surgery's later I'm starting to walk again.:)
A high pain tolerance is good but it can also be over done. I flinched for the first time and my Doctor got all excited. He thought I didn't have any feeling in the wound sight because a I wont take pain pills and I never complain. When I told him I felt every thing he has done to me for the last year he gave me a Novocain shot. I was stunned that I could have had a Novocain shot if I had ask.

I had 3 blades crack on me, but thats 3 out of 24 I've made this year. I was trying lots of new stuff. PBC powder, longer soak time, Propain in stead of coal, and standing on one leg to do it.
Thanks for the ideas.
Mike
 
I have to say, you guys, I know about having a high pain threshold (courtesy of being 6'4" and clumsy- broken bones, lacerations, etc.) but I also have to tell you that I am a nurse and tough old bastards who won't say when they're hurtin' are such a pain in my @$$ to take care of. I mean, I know you CAN take the pain but you don't HAVE to. The odds of getting hooked on doctor-prescribed painkillers post-op are infinitesimal (Rush Limbaugh notwithstanding) and hurting doesn't make you better faster. It usually has the opposite effect, in that you instinctively guard your wound and can't push for full function as fast or as hard. Plus, you breathe more shallowly, increasing your risk of hospital-acquired pneumonia which you need like a hole in your head. So, admit that you hurt and ask for some damn painkillers. Thanks for listening. I'm finished scolding. For now.
 
Oh, I'm planning on taking my meds. I won't be in the hospital, as this is outpatient surgery. I will start the exercises on day two or three, and that is what I am referring to about the pain tolerance. It will hurt, but that is part of having knee surgery. Too many folks just sit around with their leg all propped up for a couple of weeks and it never gets right. Using it judiciously will get it back to normal quicker, but it will hurt at first.

When I was in the hospital post-accident in 1971, I put this sign on my IV one day:
"If when you come ,I am asleep,
kiss me softly on the cheek,
and roll me gently, least I fall,
then fill my butt with Demerol."

I also had a buddy smuggle in an empty Vodka bottle with an IV hose hoked up to it. We hung it on the hook with the other bags. You should have seen the nurses face when she came in the check the IVs.
Stacy
 
Fair enough. I bet the vodka bottle thing had 'em pretty wound up. Nurses tend to get a little too serious for their own good and I should know.:rolleyes:
 
One more story as this thread seems to have answered the original question....

Had a patient, an old sheet metal worker. He was riding an industrial fork lift at they factory where he worked. He jumped off, and with the combo of his poor timing and the driver's not paying attention, the fork lift ran over his foot with a front wheel. Ok, that's gotta hurt, right? Well, take into consideration the lift was carrying a 10,000 pound roll of sheet. Yowzers. Anyway, he doesn't make a sound. He just calmy walks to the restroom, removes his boot, quickly returns the boot to his foot and walks out to his truck without a word. He drives himself to the ER and walks up to the front desk. He says, "I got my foot run over by a fork lift and think I need to see a doc." The kind lady asks him to fill out this and that form. So, being the nice fella he is, he starts filling out the forms. As he's going through the form, he looks up and says, "I don't want to be a bother, but I think my foot is hurt pretty bad and think maybe I need to see a doctor pretty soon."

The short of the story is, his boot was filled to the brim with blood and his foot was split all the way around the seam. Just pancaked it flat. Not a word about it to anyone. He's one of the tougher one's I've seen. I was seeing him after he lost his other leg to diabetes. Teaching him how to walk with a new leg. In my experience, the tough ones not only can be a threat to themselves because of their pain tolerance, but many times, they are the quickest to recover from major setbacks.

--nathan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top