Time to buy a carry gun looking at a few right now...thoughts?

[Glock26]

I think for pocket carry you cannot beat the convenience,concealment,cost efficient for holsters etc, and it's easy way to carry. With a 5-shot J frame or a compact auto.

 

[Smash05]

If personal defense is the main issue, nothing stops a large mass of angry like a .45 ACP. The high velocity 9mm is a military round specifically designed to wound, not kill, whereas the .45 was designed specifically to stop and kill - NOW! It's genesis was the casualties caused by suicidal attacks on U.S. troopers by machete-wielding Filipinos during the suppression of their resistance to the U.S. occupation. The soldiers frequently filled these attackers full of lead from their sidearms but failed to halt the attack. When the purpose-made .45 arrived, bang bang = dead dead.

Several posts already have hit the key points: try as many pieces as you can; select the one (or two!) that you feel comfortable using, and do not let 'image' or hype influence your judgment as this could cost you your life; and practice practice practice, particularly in 'real' situation-simulations (abandoned house, etc., if possible) as well as at the firing range. Shooting well in a range environment does not prepare you for actual defense situations. If you can team up with a group, try to find a chunk of land where you can do fast-reaction exercises and snap shooting from different positions. No matter what skill you are trying to master, from shooting to butt-scratching, practice is the only way to get the muscle-memory that makes you proficient.

God created Man; Colonel Colt made them equal; and John Browning made his clients superior.

The factual and historical inaccuracies in this post are pretty bad. The 9mm was never designed to wound, it is a killing round, just like the .45. And the .45acp never showed up in the Phillipines, and there is virtually no commonality between the .38 Long Colt of that war and the 9mm Para developed in 1908.

 

[Bill86]

and smash05 and fishface5 are right too, cost is a big factor. .40 is expensive and it's imperative for you to get good training if you're going to carry for realsies. i shoot 9mm and shoot 9mm well, b/c i shoot it a lot.


my range buddy shoots .40 cal and hates life b/c he can afford to bring x100 rounds to the range when we go. so he burns 100 rounds and then just has to sit there while i shoot 2-300 rounds of 9mm, or even better my .38 reloads (which i reload myself).

Yeah I hear ya, If I go to the range.... I bring about 10 guns and at least 1000 Rounds. NOT including the .22 for the Walther of course. If you want to stay more than 30 minutes you bring HUNDREDS, maybe THOUSANDS of rounds. I consider the Walther .22 to be like beers at the bar. It takes up time, you're still drinking and it's cheap. Gotta throw a few in just to last longer when you're pounding long islands and grateful deads.

If you are thinking of carrying a gun with .45 you have to realize you get half the rounds as a 9mm. 15X 9mm > 7-8X 45 you gotta realize that if you're pulling a gun it probably won't be on one person unless they have a weapon. If you got multiple attackers, say 3, is 8 shots of .45 going to do it? Maybe.....but is 15 shots of 9mm going to do it...Yes.

Either way I think I'll just buy the nicest rounds for the 9mm and keep it for a while. I can always pick up a snub nose .357.



EDIT the deal fell through some idiot on AR-15 backed out. So I'll still being hunting for one or maybe a different gun we'll see.

 

[Les Snyder]

to illustrate a point about "Glocks shooting to the left"....if you hold your strong hand with fingers aligned as in a salute but vertical....bring your trigger finger to a shooting position it is pretty hard to not move the other fingers. If you have a 2 1/2 pound single action trigger on a 1911 compared to a 4 1/2# Glock and don't really watch the front sight thru the entire shot process it is easy for the pistol to move away from the strong hand... left for a right hander. You can alleviate this with the thumb forward shooting hold. Most of us can point with the strong index finger even in low light. Problem is this is the finger doing the fine motor skill thing with the trigger. If you place your weak hand in a "praying" position and slide it forward, it will slide in the palm depression of the strong hand. Align it so the weak thumb is parallel with the strong index finger. You can now point with the weak thumb. Place unloaded pistol between both hands, index finger down side of slide, hold with three fingers and thumb as you would hold a hammer. Trigger finger only provides fine motor contol, using pad of finger, not knuckle to depress trigger.. I wrap weak index finger around trigger guard which I am told is wrong, but I made it into Limited Master doing it wrong. Watch front sight throughout entire firing process... dry fire in a safe place.... try it next time you go to range...Its hard to beat a Glock 19 with good steel sights (Trijicon night sights) and an aftermarket 3 1/2 connector, and I like a stainless guiderod... regards Les

 

[t1mpani]

The factual and historical inaccuracies in this post are pretty bad. The 9mm was never designed to wound, it is a killing round, just like the .45. And the .45acp never showed up in the Phillipines, and there is virtually no commonality between the .38 Long Colt of that war and the 9mm Para developed in 1908.

Not only that, but the .45 caliber guns that DID make it to that conflict (soldiers were sent leftover SAAs in 45 Colt while the new pistol project got under way) didn't make a damned bit of difference in terms of successfully stopping the charges--a part of the story nobody ever remembers. And at that's with a bullet that was moving at the same velocity as the first ACP rounds and was 30 grains heavier.

Men who are under the influence of chemicals that reduce pain and increase aggression are not stopped by trauma, they're stopped by shutting down the nervous system, and that means brain and spine shots, though heart will usually do it too, or catastrophic damage to key points in the skeletal structure that mechanically impede movement--has nothing to do with pain, it's just that the joint (knee, hip) actually no longer works. When that happens, it doesn't matter if it's a 38 in the brain or a 45, motor control shuts down and the person stops. If it doesn't happen, the person can survive long enough to finish his charge, even if he'll die afterwards.

My point is not that a 45 hits no harder than a 38---it does. However, "harder" is a relative term. The movie images of people being shot with any pistol--yes even the beloved Dirty Harry movies--and flying backwards are fantasy. Take a ten pound steel plate, hang it at a deflecting angle to you (and to anyone else) so that it doesn't ricochet in your face and shoot it with the handgun of your choice, short of the .475 Limbaugh or 500 magnum. You'll notice that the plate bounces a little bit, and then settles down again. There is no way that this translates into a 200 pound man becoming airborne after being hit with the same bullet. Hell, a 30-06 hits with nearly six times the energy of the best 45 ACP available (and creates a MUCH larger wound channel) and I've never seen a deer go flying. Actually, I've seen a couple absorb the shot and take off running for three miles, the bastards!

Point being, handguns of any caliber, shot poorly, have very little stopping power in terms of disabling a truly determined, fearless opponent. Fortunately, in spite of what gun magazines would have you believe, fearless opponents are few and far between--especially in urban environments--and most who are shot AT (let alone hit) will lose bowel control and retreat. Even those "hopped up" are not necessarily hopped up on anything that's going to improve their fearlessness or focus--in fact, most popular drugs on the streets have effects that run the other way.

As to the idea of a small or "one hole" group being useless, never fear---your fine motor control is going to take a serious hit under the stress of a defensive situation, and also unlike the paper your target will be moving. Even if he freezes, after the first shot, he'll move. Being able to acquire your target quickly and hit consistently in the kill zone while you're moving and in less-than-ideal light conditions is very, very much worth practicing, but don't give up on the fundamentals of trigger control, sight picture, etc. I deal with a bunch of cops (usually the younger ones) who are rapped up in fast double taps and rapid fire strings who never learned the fundamentals, and it's pulling teeth to make them slow down and do it correctly. Those who listen get better. Those who don't continue to suck. Shot placement is stopping power.

The best piece of advice here, and it's been oft-repeated, is to be comfortable with your weapon. If it fits you, if you like shooting it, then you'll make the time to practice and will improve. If it doesn't and you don't, then you won't. Worry not, either, about claims regarding "dinosaur hammers" and other such nonsense. Most of those (not all, but most) come from people who've only ever achieved competence with one specific weapon and want to think the others inferior so that they feel better about it.

From what experience I've had with it (only 9mm) the HK P30 is an extremely fun and comfortable gun to shoot. You're likely going to have a bear of a time concealing it, though---HK likes big, blocky slides and this is no exception. Of course, the same is true of Glock. If you like it, and do want to conceal it and try carrying it, then don't skimp on your holster. Take a look at Milt Sparks, Nossar, Bullman and TT Gunleather. Yes, there'll likely be a bit of a wait--you can cheap out in the meantime with a basic one from somebody but don't forget to order the real one. A holster that properly conceals a gun protects you from it (sights, hammers and the edges of slides can wear holes in your clothes really quick), distributes its weight properly on your belt, and keeps its shape despite being next to a warm, wet human all day. I've carried a full size 1911 every day for years, and though I'll admit switching to a scandium frame a few years back, the deciding factor that keeps it on my hip is that I often forget I'm wearing it---the sign of a good holster.

 

[Bill86]

Take a look at Milt Sparks, Nossar, Bullman and TT Gunleather.

Will do, yea I WILL NOT be getting a cheap holster. This is going to definitely be something that can and will cost me money and I really don't mind it.

Yeah I'll end up with a P30, just gotta find someone who actually WANTS to sell their gun and doesn't want to play around.