Tin Chirra - ?

beoram

beoram

Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
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from the FAQ:

"Tin Chirra" means three groove in Nepali. It is not a triple spine but a double one. Imagine an Ang Khola with another curved spine running just below the first one an inch or so below and you've got it. It is a bit heavier and beefier than the Ang Khola is you can imagine that. It looks just like an Ang Khola with an additional spine below the regular one. BM 11/98

TinChirrakhuk.jpg


In the photograph above the green, red and gray areas are depressed. the ridges are yellow. HW

tinchirraduichirra.jpg
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My question is: what exactly is the point of the chirras? Do they add strength to the blade or something to do with aerodynamics. Are they pure aesthetic? I notice that they do tend to appear on 'finer' khukuris, e.g. this one from John Powell's collection:


knife-23 (2).jpeg


An interesting little khukuri from around 1850-1870. This may have been a young prince's knife or someone's child in the Royal Court.
It is an incredibly well made tin chirra and the grip mounts are silver as is the furniture.
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Maybe someone knows the purpose of these grooves?

cheers, B.
 
Ben - The chirra or fullers allow a blade to have more strength than a flat bar blade of the same diminsions, with much less weight. They can be positioned along the blade to effect changes in balance, as well. Yvsa likes the comparison of an I-beam, and the illustration is apt. The blade in the pic above has three grooves, but also has the spine and two ridges. The tin chirra blades are on the fancier knives because they can only be forged by master kamis, and whatever the furniture, the blade itself is a work of art.
 
Tin chirras are wonderful blades. The better ones look like the blade has been given a modern hollow grind three times!

Most of our modern custom knife makers are happy if they can get the grind lines to line up well. Imagine trying to do this three times on a single blade. Then complicate things a little and bend the blade like bannana. Many of the 19th century examples that have turned up are excellently ground. Doing this kind of work with the technology available in Nepal during the 19th century was something that only a master knife maker can accomplish.

We don't know their names, but we can only hope that they were treated well in their lifetime. These kamis truely deserved the best.

N2S
 
Walosi, N2S, Yvsa - many thanks for the responses.

I thought that the 'tin chirra' looked like a very difficult blade to make, & it seemed especially telling that it shows up on 'special' blades, like those made for royalty.

But I wasn't quite sure of the function (thanks Walosi :)). I think I understand why this makes it stronger than a flat-blade of the same dimension, via Yvsa's I-beam comparison.

what do you think of this one?:

19-kh-bl.jpg


cheers, B.
 
We understand your curiosity (we share it, in fact), and we sympathlize with your increasing interest (it never stops) in the blade.....but......could you ration the number of pics of salicious blades you post????? The cost of cotton balls and Q-Tips, for cleaning the drool off my keyboard, is becoming serious. Some protocol must be established...after all, John Powell's excessive posting of his "steel wall" has driven Tsimi to one-month vacations, and who knows what deviltry he may be up to, disguised as a San Fran sanitation worker, and lurking John's curbside. Oh, the last one is dui chirra, and you left off the handle :( :D
 
Originally posted by Walosi
We understand your curiosity (we share it, in fact), and we sympathsize with your increasing interest (it never stops) in the blade.....but......could you ration the number of pics of salicious blades you post????? The cost of cotton balls and Q-Tips, for cleaning the drool off my keyboard, is becoming serious. Some protocol must be established...
Click to expand...

Walosi - my apologies. Let my enthusiasm carry me off :o - but yes, I've mainly been trying to learn more about khukuris in general--and posting some of these pics lets me vicariously own some of these fab pieces in a sense, at least for a bit. But I'll attempt to be more circumspect in future with pic-posting, so as to cut down on keyboard-cleaning time :).

However, the last one I posted is actually mine:D, or soon will be mine (with all of Yvsa's caveats about ownership of works of art applying:)), thus my special interest in it.

Originally posted by Walosi
Oh, the last one is dui chirra, and you left off the handle :( :D
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'll have to wait until I see it in the flesh, but I thought it was a 'non-classic' tin chirra (two grooves, with a 'scallop' towards the edge) rather than a dvi chirra. Oh, about the handle:

19-kh-hn.jpg
19-kh-be.jpg


sorry, couldn't resist ;).

cheers, B.
 
NICE HANDLE!.....(Slurp)....AAAARRRRRGGGGGH!!:eek:

The blade could easily be tin chirra - pics don't always show the detail. When Uncle Bill posted the big UBE, I thought "I already have a UBE, why another one?" When it arrived, I found out why - The first is eng chirra, a very ang khola-like fuller, below the spine, on the forwrd part of the blade. The "big one" is, I believe, a legitimate tin chirra. It has the AK fuller, a second one below it, the length of the blade, and the edge bevel is uniformly concave, also for the full length. I would love to ask Sanu what he had in mind, what he was reaching for, when he stretched and widened his design.
 
Oh my Gawg, Oh my Gawd, Oh Muh Gawd!!!!!!
Dayum, Dayum, Dayum, now that's a purdy khukuri!!!!!!!
Ben if you're like me and with about the same sized hands you're gonna love that curved handle!!!!!!!!!!
The curve on the old khukuris locks my hand right into position with only the very shortest of the short handles actually being too short to be comfortable!!!!!
There's just something about the curved handles that cannot be duplicated by the modern khukuris.
Even on the YCS I made the handle a lot more curvy than the average modern khuk, the kamis curved it some, but didn't get the amount I had in it.
And I know why after putting my curved handle on an as forged plain blade I got from H.I.
The curved handles are a pita!!!!!! Everyone here knows I absolutly HATE the Chirruwa Handles!!!!!!!
BUT what no one has known up until now is that if I ever get around to making the Tin Chiarra I would like to have made I have very, very strongly considered and am considering a Chiruwa Handle for it Just In Order To Get The Full Curve!!!!!!!

On another note I can't really tell who made my UBE. The kami mark has been polished off except for a coulpe of well polished punch marks on that side. The top fuller is very well defined, but where the 2nd fuller should be fullered all the way out it becomes convex towards the front of the top fuller and then becomes concave right at the front again.
No matter though. And I'm finally getting sorta used to that big arsed handle on it. And maybe, just maybe beginning to see my younger Bro's viewpoint on the large handles. I do have to say it feels a lot more comfortable now than it did when I 1st got it.:)
 
Ben on the knife above that you're supposed to be getting? ........
I would like to know if the dark places in the Sword of Shiva are actually small grooves maybe a 32" deep? I get that impression from the pic and now I'm wondering if there wasn't some metal, such as brass, inlayed in them at one time?

Is there any evidence that that is the case or am I just seeing things?;)
Perhaps you won't know for sure until you get the khukuri?

I can imagine gold being used to inlay some of the nobles khukuri's. I think silver wouldn't show up well enough.

And I'm enough of a modernist to think a khukuri inlayed with Black Hills Gold would be very lovely, very lovely indeed!!!!!!!:D

Black Hills Gold if you're not familiar with it is actually 3 colors of gold. Gold itself, a pink or reddish gold and a white gold. It is absolultey stunning in some applications!!!!!!:D
 
Bro, don't leave out the green when you get your blade inlaid with Black Hills gold :) There is a very light green (high copper content?) that the BH goldsmiths use for leaves. Some patterns have almost become traditional with the goldsmiths in that area. A bit rich, but many of them do custom work :D
 
thanks for the comments - it does look like a nice one, doesn't it? can't wait to get my hands on it :D . still curious whether it's a dvi chirra or a 'sloped' tin chirra (Walosi-what's an eng chirra, by the way?).

Yvsa, yes, there's something I quite like about the curved handle too, at least aesthetically--I haven't had a chance to hold it yet, but I can imagine :)...I just like the curves of the older khukuries in general--that's why I'd love to find a hanshee. Though I quite like the shape of the blade on this one too and the cho looks interesting, but can't see it as well as I'd like in the photo.

yes, I also see what you mean that there could have been an inlay in the Sword of Siva--if it's bronze/brass/copper, perhaps it's even still there and just very oxidised. The photo's not very good, so it's hard to tell. Do we (or, rather, does John Powell) have any examples of khukuris with gold inlayed into the SoS? Never heard of Black Hills Gold before, no, but it sounds lovely. Have you any examples/photos of it being used in an inlay? Is it really a modern 'invention', Black Hills Gold? I was under the impression that white gold has been round for a while.

Oh, and my 'forthcoming' khukuri actually has a 'royal arsenal' mark on it:

19-kh-ra.jpg


--a crescent and an 'arrow' or a dot or something, hard to see....[see N2S's & J. Powell's discussion of this marking in the thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180543&pagenumber=2]

cheers all, Ben.
 
One chirra, two chirra, three chirra, (quick, Uncle, what's "four") Never mind. I'd need a third mortgage for a "four chirra" blade, if one ever came along.
 
Watched this on eBay and am glad you got this kukri. It's a nice silver mounted dui chirra with what appear to be armoury marks. The whole thing looks very well made with nice touches around the scabbard, grip and silver topped k&c.

All the older grips are curved and I prefer them both asthetically and from a comfort/feel standpoint. It is part of the design that 'makes' a kukri to me.

Congratulations.
 
Originally posted by John Powell
Watched this on eBay and am glad you got this kukri. It's a nice silver mounted dui chirra with what appear to be armoury marks. The whole thing looks very well made with nice touches around the scabbard, grip and silver topped k&c.

All the older grips are curved and I prefer them both asthetically and from a comfort/feel standpoint. It is part of the design that 'makes' a kukri to me.

Congratulations.
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thanks John. Watched this one like a hawk and then put in a high bid at the last moment....but no-one did anything and the previous high-bidder's bid was just at the reserve price, so I got it for slightly over the reserve. Odd, how some very nice-looking piece aren't 'attacked' and some are...and some pieces which don't seem very nice--at least to me--also sell at high prices.

in any case, cheers again, B.
 
Yvsa,

If you do decide to do a BHG inlay, let me know. I can hook you up with a couple of different custom jewlers... one of which I did some graphic design stuff for back in the 90's. Last I heard, he is doing really well down in Rapid now...

It actually isn't too expensive. I can remember getting custom stuff made very reasonably a few years ago... The hard part would be figuring out how to do the inlay work itself...

Alan
 
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