Tip up/down SERIOUS question for Sal

I know that every week we have a debate over tip up/tip down relative merits.
My question is along this lines, but it is straight to the one who has to decide:

So, this is only for Sal to answer:
I know all the views of those preferring one or the other configuration, but I want to ask how does a knife designer/manufacturer decides to have a particular knife with a tip up clip, and the next knife on the other page of the catalog, a tip down? For example, why is the metal handled Rescue tip up and the metal handled Police a tip down, and then the metal handled Rookie again tip up and the Military tip down? Is all this random or does this scheme follow some consistency and some "rules"?

Thank you
Costas


P.S. another thing-why is the Military listed at Rc56-58 and the Starmate at Rc 59-61, since they both use CPM440V?
 
Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
11,666
Costas - regarding the Rc on the 440V. Both knives are Rc 55-56. We found this worked best for this steel. the postings of other Rc's are not correct. I will look into these listings. thanx for the info.

Regarding the tip down, tip up question. The answer is also complicatd. Most ELU prefer Tip up. I believe this is because we introduced the lightweights as tip up models back in 1990 and the habits developed.

I generally prefer tip down, again, habit.

Tip down affords very rapid deployment IF THE DEPLOYMENT METHOD IS HEAVILY PRACTICED. There is also a certain amount of weight required in the handle for effective "drop handle" opening technique. (more in lockbacks than in linerlocks).

The Police model has always been tip down. The Rookie was make tip up "because we figured that is the way most ELU would want it". There is consistancy in the decisions, but probably not "rules".

Bob Lum wanted his Tanto tip up. He then wanted the Chinese folder tip down. we'll generally yield to the custom collaborators preference.

The SS Rescue is tip up to be consistant with the lightweight version. The Military is tip down, partially because of the size and funtion and my persopnal preference for this type of model.

The Dragonfly is tip up, both the lightweight and the stainless. But the Carbon fiber is tip down because it worked better as a money clip and the model was designed to be a "classy flyer". It seems random, but really isn't, just different reasons for different models.

I don't think this is the clear answer you had hoped for, sorry. Maybe I'll go throughh the decision process with the forumites on the next model?
sal
 
Excellent question costas and equally excellent response sal.

Have you ever considered making the clips reversable (from tip up to down)? You have models where you can change from left to right. I realixe this would be a different animal, but seems to me it wouldn't be impossible. For example, on your steel handled knives, both ends could be drilled and tapped for screws and shorter screws could be inserted into the unused ones - or they could just be left open.
I find that tip up or down is my major preference point when it comes to knives. This would give your customers the option of many more knives ( ie I wouldn't have to consider tip up only knives) out of your catalog and might help reduce SKUs.

Anyway - just a thought.

------------------
Bill
"Walk softly and carry a big folder... and a small folder... and a SAK... and a multi-tool..."
 
phone_archer, what you suggest has already been done on some models. The old Terzuolas had two sets of holes for the screws (at least, I know they did in the aluminum handles) and the steel Rookie also bears two sets of holes. I'll bet that there are other models arranged this way, but I'm not certain. I'm curious what the customer response to this is, because I always found it a bit unattractive, myself - I mean, any given user is only going to want one carry style, so the other set is just a blemish to them.

Despite this, when I worked on customizing Benchmades, I gave many two sets of holes for both carry options if I didn't know who the knife was going to. When I did work to someone's specific requests, it seemed like flipping the clip was the single most desired modification.

Personally, I don't care for tip-up in anything but a fairly small knife (<3" blade) because my stubby thumbs can't reach the hole or stud on a "natural" draw, and changing my grip to open it is slow and annoying (and the "drop" is kinda fun). What's really needed, I think, is something like the ambidextrous clip, where in any carry mode the unused attachment point isn't unattractive or functionless. Possibly expanding the current system to use either the lanyard tube OR the pivot screw would work.

------------------

-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Thank you Sal!!!!!!!!!!!

On the contrary, I find your reply crystal-clear!
I also find unbelievable that I can ask a question and have such a long and detailed answer so quickly.

I'm a sucker for personal contact and feedback, and the staff at Spyderco have overwhelmed me (they didn't need to, since they have an excellent product!!!!!!!!). Along this line, thanks Danelle! I just received my little gift box, all the way from the other side of the globe!

 
FYI
The "Q" knife has four options on where you want the clip to be (tip up/down on both sides). I think this would be one of my favorite knive if it weren't for the close to 1" thick handel. I'd love to have that or a similar blade on a classy liner lock with G-10 or CF handels. It would be so light!!!!!

------------------
Brent

Playing with sharp toys for sharp boys... uh, and girls I guess?
 
Costas - It's mututal. Where else can a manufacturer have instant access to 2,000 ELU/consultants/historians that are willing, even interested in sharing their history, knowledge, experience and opinions? For this access, I don't mind sharing same.

Brent - We made a batch of "R"'s. ATS-34 - 3.5" blade skeletonized "Bridge pattern" - skeletonized aluminum handle with black almite coating. Lock back - Tip up. Again, we felt this was a collector knife, the collectors would prefer tip up (right hand only) on this knife because the handle is quite light for the drop opening. A beautiful piece.
sal
 
If you try and go with the custom designers desires then why is the Starmate tip-down? Or is there something more to it than that. I understand the handle weight and slinging it open and all, but I still prefer tip-up. Just curious. thanks, jeff
 
Corduroy: yes, they did the tip up- down for the G10 Terzuolas as well. Just got a Jr. as a trade.
smile.gif


L8r,
Nakano

------------------
"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."
 
> The old Terzuolas had two sets of
> holes for the screws (at least, I
> know they did in the aluminum handles)

My Jr in G10 also has two sets of
holes. Never used the other set, as
I prefer tip down (and most of the
time I carry it in a belt pouch
anyway -- but I sure appreciated it
the first time I saw them!

Strangely enough, I've found that tip
up or down doesn't really matter a whole
lot when it comes to opening knives if
you've got them clipped to the inside
of a pocket: Either way, they seem to
naturally be in the same position in
the hand after you've pulled them out.

------------------
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/diverse/knives/

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top