Tip up vs. Tip down

I carry both types ( not necessary in the same pocket though :D ) but prefer tip down.

If it's a tip up knife. . .I place the knife to the very back side of the pocket (blade facing the aft pocket seam). . .

Hopefully. . .that makes sense.
 
Originally posted by Medic1210
To clarify one thing about the "standard use" video. I will agree that it is much slower if you draw and then have to reposition to use the thumb stud. However, I have yet to use the stud like that, as if I don't use the wave feature, I just flick the knife open by "snapping" my wrist. I'm surprised they don't have a clip of that, since that is a very popular way to open knives. I can get the mini commander out and into action using the "flick" method almost as quick as using the wave feature. Again, your method is quick if you carry the tip down knife on the side you do. Everyone I know that carrys a pocket-clip knife doesn't carry that way.
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It's not legal to carry a knife that can be flicked open in my state. I'm not sure that I would want to anyway since it seems like a blade that loose would be much more likely to open accidentally. I'm pretty certain that, barring the centrifugal flick, my method is quicker regardless of the side of the pocket that I carry on. The main advantage with carrying on the crotch side, though, is that I don't have to contort my arm quite as much to get ahold of the knife. I think that this is especially important for me as I have a relatively high waist which serves to exaggerate how high I have to reach when the knife is along the outside seam of my pocket.
 
Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
It's not legal to carry a knife that can be flicked open in my state. I'm not sure that I would want to anyway since it seems like a blade that loose would be much more likely to open accidentally.
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I hate to be the one to break this to you, but just about any quality folder like Spyderco, Benchmade, Emerson, Sebenzas, etc, can be flicked open unless you tighten the pivot so much that it is hard to open even with the stud (except the Sebenza which pivot tightness doesn't squeeze the blade if I've read right). These knives have a ball detent that keeps pressure on the blade for the first few millimeters of travel. This pressure is enough to keep the blade closed, but is still able to be overcome by the weight of the blade if flicked with the wrist. Are any of the knives I mentioned sold in your state?

Mike
 
Why would you hate to break it to me? I don't write the laws. Sure, those brands are sold here, but you can't legally carry them if they can be flicked. None of the knives I've ever owned can be flicked without pushing the blade a little bit first. Oh, actually that's not true. I had a little Tekna Micro (?) or something when I was a teenager that could be flicked after you pressed a little release button.
 
Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
None of the knives I've ever owned can be flicked without pushing the blade a little bit first.
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Just curious, what knives do you own? I have handled several BM, and Spydercos, and even the Chris Reeve's FAQ suggests that you don't flick the blade open because of wear (which means they too can be flicked open). My point is, every BM and Spyderco I've held could be flicked open, unless, like I mentioned, the BM pivot was so tight you could hardly open it with the thumb stud. My point is, you might not flick your knives open, but I would almost bet they could be flicked if you tried. The ball detent can be overcome by centrifugal force created by flicking the knive.

Anyone care to back me up? Or am I just special in my ability to flick unflickable knives?

I would imagine if your laws are that strick, then the Commander or any Waved Emerson would also be illegal. They can be waved or flicked open.

Mike
 
Originally posted by Medic1210
I would imagine if your laws are that strick, then the Commander or any Waved Emerson would also be illegal. They can be waved or flicked open.
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The wave and rapid deployment systems like it appear to be fine here. I'll just have to make sure it's good and tight. I tend to like my knives on the tighter side anyway since it tends to help with blade wiggle (which I can't stand :mad: ).
 
I carry my right side tip down(millie and calypso jr lt), and my left side tip up(merlin and native)... my IWB is tip up, fixedblades go horizontal to left...
 
Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
I'll just have to make sure it's good and tight. I tend to like my knives on the tighter side anyway since it tends to help with blade wiggle (which I can't stand :mad: ).
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I can tell you from personal experience since I have one in my pocket right now. If you tighten it so much you can't flick it open, then you will be very disappointed with the wave since it won't open all the way most of the time. I have found a good medium. I tighten it until I can't flick it open, then back off a bit until I can. It waves fine at that point and there is very very little in the way of blade wiggle. You have to understand that the wave doesn't hold on to the pocket until the blade is locked, it merely gets it started and the rest is done with kinetic energy that was built up. If it is too tight to flick, then that will sap up all that kinetic energy and the blade will stop before all the way open. Just remember, just because the knife can be flicked, doesn't mean you have to flick it open when an LEO asks to see your knife. Same goes with the wave feature. No sense in testing some rookie's interpretation of the law.

Mike
 
I've seen this debated at least a few times
before on these forums, and despite the pros
and cons of tip up or tip down (all the folders
I own are tip up), I always come to the same
conclusion:

If I *ever* (perish the day, but perhaps) feel
threatened, I suspect my hand will already discretely
be in my pocket, and the folder will be ready to
draw. If I sense even more danger, I suspect I'll
already have the folder drawn and locked, held
behind my back.

So, considering that this would be probably also
be the approach of anyone else feeling threatened,
why would fractions of a second or two matter,
in a real "situation"?

Really, this is an honest question..? Any input?

Sure, I can see how situations could arise where you
don't get the luxury of time - but it really
seems to me that unless you're not paying attention
to the surrounding circumstances, you always get
a little more time to sense that something isn't
right...,more than 2 seconds, anyway...
 
Tip Up.....and as a side note...I have NEVER had a tip up knife open in my pocket, which seems to be the reason that many people perfer tip down.
 
tribalbeeyatch: often laws about flickable knives are not really enforced because anyone who carries a knife (spare the SAKs because it's fairly hard to get a good grip on most of their blades) would be committing a crime. A variation of the Spydie-drop (Spydie-drop is pinching the thumb hole when the closed handle is pointing up so that when you flick it comes down and opens the knife - variation.... grip the part of the blade that's not covered by the handle) would open most of the knife given your grip is firm enough.
 
Yes it is posible to flick almost any lockback, liner lock or axis lock knife open. All you have to do is hole on to the handle so that lthe blade is exposed, start to move the knife in the direction of the open blade (to your left if you are right handed) and then violently change direction. I have flicked open, buck 110's, spyderco's, clod steel, benchmade, Microtech (not that is a knife that really moves) Al Mar and more. I know that it is hard on a knife but ...... No excuse except that I think it is neat.

gary
 
I prefer tip down. As far as being faster, personally (my opinion) doesnt seem to make much difference.

I had a tip up knife that came open on me as I pulled it out of my pocket.......oooouch!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Originally posted by edb
If I *ever* (perish the day, but perhaps) feel
threatened, I suspect my hand will already discretely
be in my pocket, and the folder will be ready to
draw. If I sense even more danger, I suspect I'll
already have the folder drawn and locked, held
behind my back.
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Agreed, absolutely. The only time that I've ever had to draw a knife in defense, I had been holding it in my hand for some time before it became necessary to flash the blade (thankfully that was all that it took). In this thread, I'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons of the two methods of carry. I couldn't understand why people would prefer tip up, and, with the exception of something like the wave, I still don't understand it.
 
Originally posted by Medic1210
I can tell you from personal experience since I have one in my pocket right now. If you tighten it so much you can't flick it open, then you will be very disappointed with the wave since it won't open all the way most of the time. I have found a good medium. I tighten it until I can't flick it open, then back off a bit until I can. It waves fine at that point and there is very very little in the way of blade wiggle. You have to understand that the wave doesn't hold on to the pocket until the blade is locked, it merely gets it started and the rest is done with kinetic energy that was built up.
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Well, I hope that you are wrong about the wave because I have one on its way to me right now (CQC7). As I read my state laws, I don't think that I will have any problems. It's okay for an opening to be *assisted* by centrifugal motion, it just can't be accomplished entirely that way. For example, a Carson flipper is okay because it requires a push on the knob in addition to a flick of the wrist.

The Spydie drop and methods like it are a little trickier under my state laws. Obviously these openings are achieved entirely through a centrifugal motion/gravity. In this case, though, it isn't the blade that is ejected into position, but rather the handle. Since Spyderco knives are freely available here, I can only assume that this is a distinction that makes the difference.

*Note* I am not a lawyer.
 
Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
I still don't understand it.
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Boils down to personal preference. I have carried both tip down Benchmades, and my tip up Mini Commander. Like I said, most people carry their knives in their pocket on the side closest to their side, not crotch like you. The way you carry might be easier for you, but the way most people carry, the tip up can be faster. My mini commander is faster whether or not I use the wave because I don't have to change my grip once the knife is out of the pocket. I had to kind of flip the Benchmade Stryker in my hand because I was grabbing the pivot end. As far as safety, the tip up method is safe, at least for right handers because the blade is up against the side of the pocket. I have yet to have it open in my pocket. I am really considering making a video clip of me opening my Mini Commander with and without the wave, to show you the speed both ways. It is much faster than my tip down knives. I'll let you know if I make that clip, and will give you the link to check it out.

Mike
 
Mike,

That would be great if you get around to making that video.

To reiterate, I think that tip down is faster *regardless* of the side of my pocket I wear the knife on. Maybe your video will convince me otherwise, though. I'm always looking for something faster...
 
Tribalbeeyatch,

I have made a video showing me opening the Mini Commander without using the wave feature. Unfortunately my free web hosting will not host video for free. If you would like to email me at MCCurtis@(no spam)Carolina.rr.com I will send it to you. Just don't type (no spam). It's my name@Carolina.rr.com. The file is 3mb large because I took it with a digital camera that has video capture no sound. I don't know how to make it any smaller, plus the lighting is pretty dim, but you can easily see the knife open. I can view it using Quicktime, and I'm sure it can be viewed with others. If anyone can help me with making the video smaller or brighter then let me know. Also, anyone else interested in seeing the clip, just e-mail me.

Mike
 
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