Tips on forging runs of the same knife? Any tricks tips or suggestions?

J

JZknives

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Last summer I was getting used to all the different aspects of knifemaking. and this summer I am finally going to do a run of knives that I might give away to family members. I will be forging them as I have lots of rods left over. Only a little bit of W1 rod that is bigger than the 2 full size o1 rods that are not as thick. Im thinking that with forging , the o1 knives come thinned out at around 3/4 to an inch wide and not very thick , not much thicker than a chefs knife. so its not alot of material to work with. But the w1 is plenty for a more thick smaller knife. this is all of course without upsetting the rod.

What are some tips on how to make the knives as simple as possible? last year I had real issues trying grind a forged knife flat enough to seat scales properly for a full tang. It was frankly a nightmare with my flipped over belt sander. So should I go halftang? or "through" tang?

Another problem i had was pitting. Which I cannot seem to avoid with forging. But then I found that its likely because of my forge which is an Ebay forge that probly uses too much gas. So i used a charcoal forge i built out of bricks and it seemed like it helped with oxidation.

So should I get a nice wittlox forge with blower? I hate using coal so wood/charcoal would be my best bet economically.

Also what are some favorite normal woods to use that are not as expensive as the figured ones we like so much?
 
You did not tell us what diameter the rods are and how much you have. You can forge a pretty big blade from a 3/4" piece of steel. If you don't have that you can still make a decent size hunter skinner. What I would do, forge your material to the width you want. All of it. This way you have an idea what you are going to be dealing with. That is unless you are doing integral design. Make a template out of some sheet metal. Using the width you came up with as a max. This way you can forge the profile to the template and all the knives will be close. This is a forging, expect small differences. After forging the profile if you desire forge in the bevels if not grind them in. I would recommend a through tang design, but that's how I do most of mine anyway.

Pitting is to be expected even in perfect forge practice. You will need to allow for this making things a little oversize. If you don't care about the pitting/forged surface then do a brute de forge finish. Why not modify your forge to get better performance out of it? You should be able to adjust it to control the atmosphere.

Figured woods are not always really expensive. You can get cocobolo or bocote for reasonable rates, $10-$15 per handle already cut. If you buy the board and cut it yourself you could get that down to $2-$3 or even less. Just watch the rosewoods like cocobolo, they are sensitizers and can cause some pretty serious reactions if your are allergic. And they can make you allergic over time. Oh and they don't need to be stabilized.
 
A C Richards said:
You did not tell us what diameter the rods are and how much you have. You can forge a pretty big blade from a 3/4" piece of steel. If you don't have that you can still make a decent size hunter skinner. What I would do, forge your material to the width you want. All of it. This way you have an idea what you are going to be dealing with. That is unless you are doing integral design. Make a template out of some sheet metal. Using the width you came up with as a max. This way you can forge the profile to the template and all the knives will be close. This is a forging, expect small differences. After forging the profile if you desire forge in the bevels if not grind them in. I would recommend a through tang design, but that's how I do most of mine anyway.

Pitting is to be expected even in perfect forge practice. You will need to allow for this making things a little oversize. If you don't care about the pitting/forged surface then do a brute de forge finish. Why not modify your forge to get better performance out of it? You should be able to adjust it to control the atmosphere.

Figured woods are not always really expensive. You can get cocobolo or bocote for reasonable rates, $10-$15 per handle already cut. If you buy the board and cut it yourself you could get that down to $2-$3 or even less. Just watch the rosewoods like cocobolo, they are sensitizers and can cause some pretty serious reactions if your are allergic. And they can make you allergic over time. Oh and they don't need to be stabilized.
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I think they are half inch but it might be less. I know the w1 is wider though and less than an inch.

How would I forge an integral knife? I can't find info on that.

As for modifying the forge I don't think it's possible. The burners are shoddily made and there is way too much space on the inside. And on top of that the hoses are rotting and I'm always worried there will be a leak or explosion.


As for woods what are some good less expensive non allergenic woods to use?

Also I like very glossy finishes, what should I use to attain this?
 
I don't like round bar under 3/4" personally if there is going to be any width to the end product. Hopefully someone with a lot more round bar time will give you their opinion of the width. Seems like anything smaller is fighting for width. I just don't see a bar less than that making for much of an integral either... For one of those nice thick bolster and hilt area knives like this:
orig.jpg

you are going to want to start with something quite a bit wider. I know Burt doesn't have anything laying around in his shop that is less than 1" in diameter, and he starts everything with round bar if at all possible... The up side is you get more out of shorter length than you do with narrow bar like that.

First I would build a good and reliable forge. Reliable and efficient heat is going to be necessary regardless what diameter bar you are starting with.

Good luck!

-Eric
 
I meant to add...Why not draw it flat and then fold and forge weld it back onto itself? That'll get you some thickness to draw down, and just work it like flat bar.

-Eric
 
I agree especially with an integral; 3/4 inch or more is needed. If your forging by hand it is even more crucial. With a press or power hammer you can push the steel; its much harder by hand.
Good luck with your venture. Fred
 
Would this be a suitable forge?

http://shop.whitloxhomestead.com/MI...BB541728A8A806A1CE1F468987C2D5.m1plqscsfapp06


And how do you forge in those bolsters? do you just start off with a thick rod and forge in the blade and pound in the handle area? It almost looks like you machined it

By the way i also have flat bar , but I found that when I tried to forge flat bar it would create these lips on the edges that would bend over when i make points. I tried round bars and it doesnt happen as much.
 
The integral part has been answered. So first the forge. You absolutely can modify it. Even if you just use the hoses and regulator. Do some more research and find a forge design then build your own. Propane is actually a lot safer than people think. Just don't leave it on and repair leaks. If you can run a wood charcoal forge you should be able to run a propane.

Handle material. Good old maple has been used for years. You can stain it to really bring out the figure. Super Glue finish can give you a very shiny surface. But if you are looking for less toxic then it might not be a good choice. True Oil is a gun finish that would work for you. It requires some patience to work with but it is well worth the effort.

I would recommend buying a bar of steel for $50 then make your run from that. 1/2 inch is the minimum I would consider using. Even that is pretty small. Good for bird and trout and such unless you do the forge welding. But then you are going to burn up more than $50 in fuel getting the bars welded together and drawn out. That is unless you have and endless supply of charcoal.

Good luck. Ask more questions and normally someone will answer. I just walked in from the shop so now I need to get a shower.
 
If you are having problems with mushrooming edges you need to practice a bit more. Your heat is probably a little on the low side or you are trying to work the material too long. Work all 4 sides evenly maintaining dimension. There are many smiths who can forge just about all of an integral with little clean up required. Some do mill them and others forge close then use files. You can also make a stick or through tang that eliminates the need to forge the scale area.

The forge you have pictured will certainly work. But something to think about. Last time I participated in using wood charcoal to fire a forge we went through 4 - 50lb sacks of the mesquite charcoal in a 4 hour forging session. We were welding and heat treating. It burns really fast at forging temps. If you are using wood you need to use the coals and not unburned wood. The wood absorbs too much heat. Kind of like using green coal. It would be much better if you make charcoal first then burn it.
 
A C Richards said:
If you are having problems with mushrooming edges you need to practice a bit more. Your heat is probably a little on the low side or you are trying to work the material too long. Work all 4 sides evenly maintaining dimension. There are many smiths who can forge just about all of an integral with little clean up required. Some do mill them and others forge close then use files. You can also make a stick or through tang that eliminates the need to forge the scale area.

The forge you have pictured will certainly work. But something to think about. Last time I participated in using wood charcoal to fire a forge we went through 4 - 50lb sacks of the mesquite charcoal in a 4 hour forging session. We were welding and heat treating. It burns really fast at forging temps. If you are using wood you need to use the coals and not unburned wood. The wood absorbs too much heat. Kind of like using green coal. It would be much better if you make charcoal first then burn it.
Click to expand...

I want to make charcoal anyway we seemingly lose a tree to ice/wind/storms every year now and we have so many chords of wood its not funny.

Problem is I dont know where to find a good metal drum. I dont want to buy one new and finding them used is like antique diving for an anvil
 
If you have a fuel bulk plant around your local, they have 55 gal drums they sell for like $5, may or may not have a lid.
 
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