Tired of supersteels

[LimpCroissant]

Firstly, I think the term “super steel” has changed as time passed by. For example at one point in time it was ATS-34 and now the new hotness is Magnacut. The goal post has moved as technology has progressed. I don’t consider anything S30V and below to be a super steel these days. My personal opinion of course.

I use my knives regularly and I’ve found that I much prefer ease of sharpening to ridiculous edge retention. It’s so much easier to fix damage and so quick to get sharp. I currently own only nine knives after many years of collecting and selling. Of those nine, four of them are 154CM, three are S30V, and the remaining two are S45VN and Chad Nichols Damascus. All are super easy to sharpen and all take a good enough edge for my needs.

ETA: I’m not the biggest fan of the S45VN knife, but it is still reasonably easy to sharpen and maintain. To be honest, I’d much prefer S30V in that knife but that’s not an option

Why don't you like the S45VN knife as compared to the S30v?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

So, what's my logical fallacy? Kinda curious.

Formally, it would be the appeal to extremes.

 

[Lesknife]

Oh come on that's a logical fallacy if I've ever seen one, maybe you should just use a ceramic or obsidian knife because you really value edge retention and hate sharpening. You see how absurd and non productive that comment is?

I understood what he was saying and you seem to be stating your opinion like it’s an established fact. Maybe you’re the absurd, non productive one in the discussion.

 

[JohnnyGalt]

I've never had an issue sharpening M390 or 20CV. I do a few dozen swipes with various grits on the Wicked Edge whenever needed.

I’ve had the same experience. My “Wicked Edge” setup was certainly pricey, but it makes up for that by being quick and accurate.

 

[Carboniferous]

I have a K390 Ladybug just to have the steel to try but I generally agree. I like basic steels that dull relatively quickly but can be touched up just as quickly. I never really cut enough in a day to badly dull even 440A or whatever, and I don't mind a few minutes on the Sharpmaker before I leave the house. The overall design and grinds matter more to me than the type of steel.

Especially true given how thick edges from most factories come. The edge geometry has a bigger impact on edge retention, or maybe an equal contribution if the steels are massively different.

 

[helobite]

The HVAC guys installing my new air conditioner, they carried box cutter knives. The primary reason, they lost knives frequently “I can’t keep a knife”. One of them said, “I will buy a $5.00 knife and see how long it lasts”. The Boss of the unit had a cheap small fixed blade knife, looked like a copy of a Puma, and it was dull. He was given it, and he used it as a pry bar. He also did not carry mulitools because his “multi tools would “disappear”.

I like D2. D2 can be found on lots of $50 and $75 folding knives. D2 takes a good edge and holds it well.

Before the Trump tariffs, this cost $35.00 delivered from China. And it is a great $35.00 knife.

You know, this knife cost me $50.00 delivered, and it is probably 440A. And it cuts just fine. I am surprised on how hard the steel is, for 440A, but it is not as hard as D2. (what sunk these Komoran's was theU2X. No one wanted to pay the original MSRP for a mystery steel) So what, you don’t need to spend ridiculous amounts to buy a very serviceable knife.

If you are an early adopter, you are going to pay for the privilege of owning the steel du jour. And you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. But give it time. I remember when AUS 8 was considered a super steel. This was an expensive knife.

My new 1987 one hand AG Russell knife, which cost almost $200 in today’s money, it was AUS 8, and I did not find that out till shortly before AG’s death, when he came out with a N690 version. Back in 1987 AUS 8 was cutting edge high tech and expensive. About a year ago I purchased a number of Schrade frame lock knives in AUS 8. They were $15.00 each. Nothing wrong with AUS 8 at that price.

This was expensive, and it is AUS 6. How much would you pay for an AUS 6 knife now?

There is a deliberate planned obsolescence with steels to create product churn. Lacking standardized testing, you really don't know how much better the steel du jour is compared with the last fashion cycle. In my opinion, it does not pay to be an early super steel adopter. A couple of fashion cycles down the road, you can buy today's latest and greatest for a lot less.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I understood what he was saying and you seem to be stating your opinion like it’s an established fact. Maybe you’re the absurd, non productive one in the discussion.

So how much are you willing to pay for my spiffy new knife with a glass blade? Far harder and more abrasion resistant than steel.

Also, where, precisely, is he stating his opinion like it's established fact? It seems like you've pulled that accusation completely from thin air.

 

[kafolarbear]

I understood what he was saying and you seem to be stating your opinion like it’s an established fact. Maybe you’re the absurd, non productive one in the discussion.

An appeal to the absurd is a logical fallacy, it’s not an issue of understanding what he’s saying, but more that it’s not a form of honest logical reasoning. My comment was purposely an appeal to the absurd, just in the other direction from the one I quoted to show how that form of reasoning does nothing to move the conversation forward, I never made an argument or took a side, just pointed out how the comment itself was silly and without substance.

 

[kafolarbear]

So, what's my logical fallacy? Kinda curious.

Appeal to the absurd, "reductio ad absurdum" if you want to be fancy about it. You see it often times when people are arguing for gun control for instance, when someone says "well if the second ammendment really gave us the right to own and use whatever weapons we want, do you think americans should be allowed to own nukes?" In the same way, you taking what someone is saying how they prefer a steel that's easier to sharpen to the extreme, "oh so does that mean you would prefer a knife made of lead", and I'm just attempting to show how that line of logic doesn't really hold up by presenting your exact argument to you just in the opposite direction, why not just take a knife made out of ceramic, glass or obsidian if you don't want to sharpen and edge retention is the end all be all of knife performance? I'm not taking a side in the argument, just pointing out how the logic you're trying to use doesn't work.

 

[HexY3co]

I'm still happy with my BOS heat treated buck knives no matter the steel. Super heat treat wins the day.

 

[gazz98]

My most carried steels are ...
1.VG10 (mostly Spydercos : Delica, Endela, and Endura)
2. CTS XHP (older Cold Steels and Spartan Blades)
3. 154cm (BM and other brands)

I have two 20CV blades, an Endela and Endura. I love my Endela and Enduras and admittedly wanted to try the steels. The steel is ok and I can sharpen it.

I have no M4, Magnacut, Maxamet, Cruwear, s90v, s110v, s125v.

I like to think I haven't bought into the "super steel" hype much.

If I could pick one steel for the rest of my life, I'd probably go CTS XHP. I like the balance of toughness vs edge retention vs corrosion resistance. YMMV.

 

[dirc]

speaking of cpm-m4 ... I really love it, at least on my example which is a spdy gb2

it strops back to hair popping quickly and holds it for a good long time

 

[K.O.D.]

I hemmed and hawed over whether or not to give my $.35 on this.

For my normal, daily stuff, super steel is fine. I prefer particle metallurgy steels.

Geometry has a lot to do with it for me, as well as the task. Most of my daily tasks will not cause appreciable difference in the edge.

I have specific knives I turn to for heavier use, where I will trade a little edge retention for some added toughness. I like CTS-XHP, CPM-M4, and CPM-3V for heavy stuff.

Fixed blades are a different story. I rarely use them, but toughness is going to be #1 because they will be used for camp type tasks, where a folder is impractical.

Corrosion is generally not an issue for me, so tool, carbon or stainless is fine.

I'd rather have sharpen more frequently than have to sharpen out chips, so a good balance is what I look for.

What I've come to realize is that what is considered a "super" steel varies greatly upon the person and the application. To me, CTS-XHP and CPM-M4 are super steels.

 

[tony281sc2]

So, using this logic, the softer the steel, the better because those steels are easiest to sharpen. Maybe someone will make a blade out of lead because you can strop it on a paper towel. I'll stick with 20CV, CPM 154, etc.

I just think the “point of diminishing returns” would be with a steel like S35VN or cpm-154…if that makes any sense lol…
I’ll give it another try eventually, for sure. It’s possible I didn’t give it enough time with the diamonds…?
And of course a professional sharpener/maker is going to read this post and laugh, but I’ll bet there’s quite a few people out there like me who have a heck of a time with certain steels.

 

[tony281sc2]

I like supersteels, and carry and use them regularly. And sharpen them as needed. Not so bad with the right abrasives and a little skill for using them.

I'm definitely not a fan of daily touch ups, would rather sharpen on a less frequent basis.

How are the Rex-45 and the K390, as far as sharpening goes?

 

[tony281sc2]

If you can't figure out how to put an edge on them: just stay away.
Lots of us like the newer steels, and have the sharpening stuff figured out.
Back in the day: Schrade knives were known for being very "soft", Easy to sharpen... and easier to dull!

Oh I can definitely put an edge on it. Shave sharp in about 5 minutes with the KO…. but I want to get away from the worksharp and do more “freehand”, if you wanna call it that. And I was really surprised how much more difficult the 20CV was over the Elmax and S30V.. those other steels are no slouch in the edge retention department.
I wonder how Magnacut is to sharpen? I hear it’s really tough, and it seems tougher steels are easier to sharpen usually.

 

[Wandering_About]

How are the Rex-45 and the K390, as far as sharpening goes?

REX 45 sharpens like a steel of very high hardness. It's not as much work as Maxamet, but also doesn't deburr as nicely for me. I probably would like it more if I'd tried it before Maxamet, but I've had the Maxamet PM2 for much longer and have been very impressed with it. Lots of people really love REX 45 though, so they can't all be wrong. It's not a bad steel by any stretch, I've just never really fallen in love with it myself. One nice thing about it is that for a tool steel it tends to resist corrosion fairly well, at least as Spyderco has done it.

I really love K390 though. Sharpens up quite easily (for me) for a steel with a whopping 9% vanadium. Will take a patina, but for me has not been problematic for rust with a little care. Have found it to take a very sharp and quite durable edge. It tends to be a bit lower hardness than steels like REX 45 and I do think it helps for edge durability. Also responds very well to a strop with diamond compound for touch ups. I carry this steel often, maybe more than any other unless I'm needing proper corrosion resistance.

Neither are steels I'd recommend to somebody who's not enjoying sharpening 20CV, but if you do end up confident with your sharpening skills in time, they are both steels well worth trying. I reprofile steels like Maxamet and S110V for fun, so my perspective is different than that of many folks.

 

[000Robert]

I hemmed and hawed over whether or not to give my $.35 on this.

For my normal, daily stuff, super steel is fine. I prefer particle metallurgy steels.

Geometry has a lot to do with it for me, as well as the task. Most of my daily tasks will not cause appreciable difference in the edge.

I have specific knives I turn to for heavier use, where I will trade a little edge retention for some added toughness. I like CTS-XHP, CPM-M4, and CPM-3V for heavy stuff.

Fixed blades are a different story. I rarely use them, but toughness is going to be #1 because they will be used for camp type tasks, where a folder is impractical.

Corrosion is generally not an issue for me, so tool, carbon or stainless is fine.

I'd rather have sharpen more frequently than have to sharpen out chips, so a good balance is what I look for.

What I've come to realize is that what is considered a "super" steel varies greatly upon the person and the application. To me, CTS-XHP and CPM-M4 are super steels.

$.35? Damn inflation!

 

[tony281sc2]

You saw my preferred steels...and I agree for the most part.

However, in my humble opinion (*and for my uses), 3V has been WELL WORTH the premium.


Again, your mileage may vary.

I might try some 3V, now that it’s pretty easily available thanks to those Demkos….
Id love to get my hands on one of those MEFP Hinderer Eklipse wharncliffes in 3V, that’s one of my grails ATM

 

[toker]

I wonder how Magnacut is to sharpen? I hear it’s really tough, and it seems tougher steels are easier to sharpen usually.

My only experience with Magnacut is with the two Spyderco Mules that I own. Seems to be very easy to sharpen. Seems to be about on par with S30V when it comes to sharpening.