Tired of the B.S.

[Diggerdog]

I might get flamed for this and I 'm not criticising anyone in particular, but it kinda bothers me when someone posts a picture and description of a knife that is a beautiful work and absolutely flawless and then complains that it is their first, or not their best, or their first in a long time, or somehow not worthy. I am new at this and only aspire to be able to make such a nice knife. When they complain about a knife that is still better than what I can make they are basically saying that my efforts are not worth shit. That maybe true but I don't like it rubbed in my face. If you make a knife that is good then take credit for it. Don't denigrate your own product when at the same time you put down everyone's effort that may not be quite as good. Just my .02 worth.

 

[Bruce Bump]

I agree. BTW this is my first ever knife. Sorry it looks so crude.

 

[Will52100]

It may be iritating, but remember that most if not all makers no matter how good have devoloped a critical eye towards there knives and knifemakers are for the most there own worst critics. Where someone else see's a beutiful work of art all we see is "the blade needs to be a couple thousands thinner here, got a 2000 grit scratch here, handle is off to one side a millionth, ect and it bugs us. Even if nobody else can see it. I remember a cut and shoot in blade where the maker thought it was a failure because all the flat head screw slots didn't line up perfectly. It's what drives us to inprove, that never being satisfied. And yes it can be iritating so see an outstanding knife that is beyond my current abilities and hear the maker focus on the falts. Also remember that a photo can hide a lot of small mistakes.

Just remember that most makers early knives are nowhere near what a lot of new makers are now producing. I know I've seen a lot of "first" knives that are a world of differance from my first.

Also there's no such thing as a "flawless knife". The flaws may be vertualy invisable, but there there. I promise you the maker knows where they are too!

Bruce if that's your first I'm gonna go ahead and shoot myself now!

 

[yuzuha]

Hm, well there are crass a-holes all over the world and you just have to let them slide, but constructive comments can help you and you shouldn't take it personally. I know what you mean though... I don't even make knives or even own a sword but the first thing I thought when someone posted pics of a katana they'd made is that the blade did not have that graceful sweep of a classic nihonto, caused by the blade being slightly wider near the tang (it is a gradual thing sort of like the way a tree trunk is wider near the ground and makes the sword look like it is naturally growing out of the hilt). I thought about mentioning it, but didn't because the guy was so thrilled about getting a good blade and nice hamon that I didn't want to rain on his parade, and I was thinking about a subliminal aesthetic detail when the rest of his work was really impressive. (see the bit about "fumbari" here http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/kissaki.html for the detail I thought about mentioning). But, maybe I should have mentioned it since it would have made his next blade even better (felt guilty for not mentioning it, but not as guilty as I would have felt if I'd discouraged his enthusiasm).

 

[miden]

A well liked, respected member recently posted a thread about how his quest for perfection nearly drove him to insanity and suicide. I do not know how serious Ilovetoolsteel was about using the Glock on himself but it is an interesting thread and a lot of good respected guys opened up and revealed similar torment.
I am no shrink but it seems the quest for perfection is a mixed bag.
You have to seriously persue it if you want to put your name on a knife that you made with your own hands and want to sell it, with your name there for all the world to see.
On the other hand, if it is hand made then maybe it cannot be perfect, unless you wear a robe,beard and sandals. Some people look for the tiny flaws and relish them because that shows it was made by a man, not a machine. Damned near perfect, clearly heart and soul went into it but the human touch is still evident because it is not perfect.
The other thing is that we are not all dealt the same measure of ability and skill and those who do it well do not have the right to be arrogant about it because it is a Gift, that is for sure.
Do the best you can with what you have Diggerdog and enjoy it.:thumbup:

Mike

 

[Bruce Bump]

I have seen makers come and go here. It seems that if they have a real love for knives they continue the craft and gradually improve their skills which also increases their personal gratification. Ive have also seen some "first knives" that were so good that there was no place to go from there.
This is all a personal endeavor for us. Only we can understand it. I for one am so engrossed and obsessed that I am almost no good for anything else now. I eat, sleep and think knives almost every minute of the day. You have heard it said here many times that it is an addiction for which there is no cure.

The best advice I have is: "be satisfied with each finished knife because it is the best you can do in this stage of your skill and personal development"

BTW My first knife really was a piece of warped bandsaw blade with antler slabs. I was so proud of it I just sat and stared at it for hours at a time. I sold it for $25.

 

[Stag & Steel]

"I for one am so engrossed and obsessed that I am almost no good for anything else now. I eat, sleep and think knives almost every minute of the day. You have heard it said here many times that it is an addiction for which there is no cure." Bruce Bump

You got it Bruce, me too!!!!!! Hi my name is Jim....I am a knifeaholic!

 

[Gossman Knives]

I've found that the "perfection" affliction can be downright depressing. I don't think I'll ever be completely satisfied with what I'm doing. I was the same way when I was a taxidermist. It was so bad, that I gave it up. The bottom line for me is the only person that needs to be happy with a perticular knife is the recipient of that knife. The customer has the final say. If they are happy, then I'm happy. This is how I deal with the perfection syndrome.
Scott

 

[miden]

I think you nailed the perfection syndrome perfectly Scott.

Mike

 

[David Schott]

I recently posted a thread about a knife and had some responses similar to your first post.....I think that its an individual thing. To a mastersmith, a flaw may be something wholly different than a newbie. That does not mean that the newbie's best work is not an achievement or any less remarkable. Think of it like painting. A 5 year old paints a picture and it is wonderful, regardless of artistic talent. Sometimes a 5 year old can really do something nice, too! But someone who is classically trained in painting might find flaws in style or perspecive or lighting while a the same time appreciating the young painter's work. I dont think anyone will deny that surely any maker's first knives have more soul and spirit in them than the 14 out of 50 in a batch that another maker banged out that week. I think its important to see what other people are doing, what they are concerned with....but as far as the ultimate judge, its you! I am somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to what I sell, not make...ive yet to teach myself that most of my flaws wouldnt even be noticed by anyone besides myself.

 

[steierknives]

Knifemaking is an evolution. You get better as time goes on. There will always be people who are better than you no matter how good you get. There will be people who try to emulate what you do. Sometimes they will get better than you. We are always our worst critic, if we truly are serious about making the perfect knife. The good thing about making knives is that they normally don't take years to complete. If we don't make a great knife this time, it won't be too long before this one is done and we get to start all over again with our next effort. If we had a really hard time with a certain aspect of the bad knife, we have the opportunity to seek out help or just work around it by making a different style of knife. If your not satisfied with the results, put it to the side and start another. You can always come back at a later date when your mind is fresh. Just my thoughts.

Dave

 

[Darrel Ralph]

How a person feels about a project at the end of it will depend on how anal they are about life in general.
I think that is in our make up as human beings to feel we can do better.
Some strive to be the best. We are also modest about our work.

I think we all see flaws in our knives.
Be proud and move on to the next one. It may get you closer to "the perfect knife".

 

[Airborne Steel]

Diggerdog, I am also a newbie to knifemaking. Though it is sometimes disheartening to see such beautiful work referred to as 'troubled' in some way, you must understand that these are true craftsmen. Most true craftsmen are their own worst critic, and they hold themselves to a much higher standard then others will. When I see someone posting a great knife that they aren't happy with, it is actually re-assuring to me that they doubt themselves, just as I doubt myself. I don't think there is a point in knifemaking where you just 'know it all', and no longer make mistakes. I believe there is a point where you can see the mistakes early on, and correct it and make a beautiful knife out of it, just not the knife you WANTED to make.

I found this forum because of the 'Knives for Special Ops Troops' thread, and I have been inspired countless times by not only the knives shown here, but the knowledge shared here. I have never felt like my efforts are worthless or such, as I know I am seeing the efforts of people who have much more experience than myslef.

-Marty

 

[bullet101]

What David (TikTock) said :thumbup:.

I was formulating it in my mind while writing another post, but David allready made a very good comparison. It depends on your point of view. If you just started making knives and you think there are flaws in your knife than it's obvious to point out that you just started with knifemaking.

And as you continue to make knives the flaws are still there, maybe not as obvious as on your first crude knife but you see them. And so you are trying to present an explanation for these flaws. I'm the best example for it . But after three years of knifemaking it's getting kind of hard to find excuses .

And most really good makers that I know personally or over the net, have only gotten up there because they search for every flaw in their work and continue to improve with time. And I know that I can be quite depressing if you're trying to improve but somehow you seem to fail all the time.

But in no way those makers are trying to put down your efforts. Most of them encourage you and try to help you to avoid the mistakes that they already made.

Keep your head up and continue making knives, you too will improve .

Regards Marcus

 

[John Andrews]

How a person feels about a project at the end of it will depend on how anal they are about life in general.
I think that is in our make up as human beings to feel we can do better.
Some strive to be the best. We are also modest about our work. How a person feels about a project at the end of it will depend on how anal they are about life in general.

I think we all see flaws in our knives.
Be proud and move on to the next one. It may get you closer to "the perfect knife".

I think this says it better than I can.

 

[Danbo]

I agree. BTW this is my first ever knife. Sorry it looks so crude.

Yeah, tell me about it, Bruce. I made this beater of a fillet knife a LONG time ago, and I really hate to show it to anybody. Ended up giving it to my Grandson, so that he could sell it at the local flea market for candy money.

 

[jhiggins]

I might get flamed for this and I 'm not criticising anyone in particular, but it kinda bothers me when someone posts a picture and description of a knife that is a beautiful work and absolutely flawless and then complains that it is their first, or not their best, or their first in a long time, or somehow not worthy. I am new at this and only aspire to be able to make such a nice knife. When they complain about a knife that is still better than what I can make they are basically saying that my efforts are not worth shit. That maybe true but I don't like it rubbed in my face. If you make a knife that is good then take credit for it. Don't denigrate your own product when at the same time you put down everyone's effort that may not be quite as good. Just my .02 worth.

This is no flame, but you should not take things here so personal. Some people are very self-critical. There is a paradigm in the knifemaking world, that if your knife isnt perfect - or deemed to be by others - then your work needs improvement. Do you think Ron Lake or Kenneth King made kickass folders right from the beginning? NO! Did Julie Warenski engrave the lovely work she does now right out of the gate? NO!

Knifemaking is a path we choose in life. It has nothing to do with social status or elevation to god-hood. Instead it is an artistic endeavor with a lifelong learning curve. You do it for yourself and how you feel inside when you are done. I left a $75K per year job to do this. You think I make that much now? BWAHAHAHAAA! Well come to think of it, I got fired, but the fact remains that in my former line of work I made decent money and was well-liked by my superiors and peers. I began making knives fulltime because thats what made ME feel good inside. I know I will never be as revered in this business as Loveless or Lake, but I know that every knife I make comes from my heart and soul, and thats what spurs me onward to make another.

So be kind to yourself, and forget that anyone in here is denigrating their work just to piss you off. They aren't in fact, I read it as a small measure of humility, which I think is a good trait to have as a knifemaker. I like to think of all my friends in here as Friends first, Gentlemen second, and third... knifemakers.

 

[Leatherface]

Hi guy's...I wanna chime in on this one, even though I couldnt make a knife worth selling if I had to...If it will peel potatoes and cause someone to need staples instead of stitches then I am happy...My obsession is leather!

I think most of the problems with "perfection" comes from actually charging someone for what we do...

My case in point..

I started in leather just like most of you guys did with steel...As a hobby and maybe out of need...I was happy that I could make a simple gun holster that carried my weapon and that I didnt have to pay someone to do it for me...And it was FUNNN!!!!!!...THEN someone offered me MONEY for one...that is when the trouble started

I would make a holster and then LOOK at it for ANY flaw..If I found one I would slash it and chunk it in the garbage bin..I would sit for hours on the net looking at other's designs and comparing my work to theres

THEN I bought or borrowed several holster's made by men that I consider the master's of our trade

Belt holster from Andy Arrantoonian

Revolver Belt holster from Mernickel

IWB from HBE Leatherworks etc...

Then I would set them on the kitchen table and stare at them for hours...Everytime I would make something I would compare what I did with what the other guys did...IT came to a point that I dreaded getting an order for a holster, and when I did ship one I would sit and DREAD there reply cause I just KNEW that they were gonna be pissed because I didnt get that stitch just right or that the molding wasnt dead on because it wasnt as good as the other's...My fun had became a job that I hated...And I wasnt getting stuff to my customers anywhere NEAR when I was supposed to

Then 6 months ago my house and shop burned up...

Losing everything pretty much puts everything else into perspective ya know?? I sought the help of a consouler (on the advice from Red Cross) and in talking about the fire I brought up my problems with my "job"...Her advice was to stop taking orders for 3 months and just veg...And that is what I did...I didnt touch a piece of leather for almost 4 months and even then it was a gift for my eldest...While crafting it I realized that I was having FUN again!!! Then I made a few belts for Christmas presents and they LOVED them...And it was around there that I decided that I could only do what I could do and that I should make the customer happy not myself...In other words Razorback hit it dead on the head...If the customer is happy then so am I

Making knives is pretty similar I suspect to leatherwork...It is a constant evolution of our craft...Perfection, I guess should be strived for but not to the point of self destruction

Sorry for the rambling nature of my post...I am drinking way to much coffee for my own good

 

[Don Hanson III]

Yeah, tell me about it, Bruce. I made this beater of a fillet knife a LONG time ago, and I really hate to show it to anybody. Ended up giving it to my Grandson, so that he could sell it at the local flea market for candy money.

That is an ugly knife Danbo :thumbdn:

 

[Gossman Knives]

Yeah, tell me about it, Bruce. I made this beater of a fillet knife a LONG time ago, and I really hate to show it to anybody. Ended up giving it to my Grandson, so that he could sell it at the local flea market for candy money.

Good grief Danbo, that thing is hideous.
Scott