Tired of the B.S.

I'm not going to flame you but will explain why...at least from my perspective. The worst critic to ever look at your knife should be you. You should see every imperfection, flaw and wobble in it....even what's under the scales. You should also strive to make the next one better.

That said, you should be proud of the things that went right. The overall package is what your customer. If you were buying a knife, would you rather have a builder that buffs out the blue spot and brags on the great polish...or one that re heat treats and is modest about the job.

In my opinion, I've never made a really pretty knife. I'm just not artistic. I try and each one looks a Little better but I've made well over a thousand knives in my lifetime and I doubt I have enough years to get over the pretty hump.

I do make good field knives and some special purpose....some damn silly and some very good. All well made IMHO....just Ugly!
 
I believe I should be my own toughest critic. Also a picture can hide a lot of flaws that are quite visible in person. So when I say a knife I put a piicture of somewhere and say it could be better, I'm not trying to say anything bad about your work and probably would not see the flaws in your sord you do. When I say my knife could be better, what I'm really saying is I'm trying to improve my own work.

And so you can see the improvements -
a link to my first 3
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/ron.knife1-3.jpg
and some of my last ones
a slipjoint
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/Ron.knife10.jpg
fixed blades
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/Ron.knife11.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/Ron.knife12.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/Ron.knife13.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/Ron.knife14.jpg

don't get discouraged. Those numbers do indicate the number of finished knives at that point, but don't include the failures that never got finished.
If your knives hold together and cut, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
 
It's not BS. Anyone new to any skill is going to have a hard time distinguishing between a great work and a better work. This goes for ANY skill -- painting, bricklaying, cooking, whatever -- not just knifemaking.

No offense, but if you interpret someone's self criticism of a great knife as somehow insulting you or putting you down, this is YOUR problem. And I say this as someone who has only ever made one ridiculously bad knife in his life.
 
I also believe that we should be our own toughest critic and we must want to drive ourselves to improve because a-couldn't-give-a-damn attitude is also a nasty character trait, regardless of what we are doing.
However, this is an amazing hobby and the result of the work of our own hands can be very gratifying and as many have said, we should always try to make the next one better than the last one but when it reaches the point that you will just be tormenting yourself then there is something wrong.
Somebody also mentioned that we should compete with ourselves, not with others because some will never reach the same level as others because we are not all dealt the same hand.
I used to run marathons and was always among the last because I am just not a natural athlete and one of my friends just could understand why I bothered, knowing I could never win unless I was competing with legless men,
heck, when I crossed the line when a lot of guys were already sitting at home with a cold beer, I FELT like I had won if I had beaten my own previous time......and no, I am not a born loser.;) ..........and maybe I appreciated my beer more than they did.....

Mike
 
At first my synical side was going to say, "Sounds like a personal problem... GET OVER IT."

:p :D

But I can understand where you're coming from.

Here's my unneccessary anology.

When I worked as a personal trainer, I would sometimes mutter things about needing to be leaner. At 23, 5'11" 197 lb. and 8% bodyfat, I sure wasn't a fat lazy bastard... but in my mind I was not WHERE I WANTED TO BE OR COULD BE.

Clients that were in their 50's and out of shape, would sometimes hear me and get really pissed off, saying "Well I guess I'm just a big pile of dung then!"

But when I would mumble that stuff, it had NOTHING to do with those other people.... it was all about improving my own self.

I think it's the same way with knives. We always want to reduce as many imperfections as possible. But the imperfections that ARE there, jump out at a "seasoned maker" like nasty sore thumbs :( By announcing said flaws, it's like you're saying, "Look, I know I could have done this better," so as not to try to be "hiding" anything.

No knife is perfect. Many guys can get darn close though :)

So if you see comments like that, don't take them as a dig against what you're making....


Take it as inspiration that you can climb the ladders in knifemaking and ALWAYS WANT MORE.
 
I thought I was a little anal, maybe setting my sights too high, when it came to knife making, until I read an artical in Bowhunter magazine about this hunter, who took 4 years to bag two specific bucks. He had scouted these two record breaking bucks in one year and then set out to bag both of them. Nothing else would satisfy him. He spent four years following, scouting, moving his stands until he finally got them. He never took a single shot at another animal in that time. He made the front page of the magazine for his effort and I must say they were worthy animals.
So now when I get a little picky, maybe disassemble a knife that I do not consider to be up to my own standards, I don't feel like I am asking too much of myself when I think about this guys obsession. I know sitting in that stand he never said to himself," thats good enough" I never say that either. Fred
 
There's good work posted on this forum? Is that in a private area I haven't seen or something? :D



(Runs quickly for nearest door/hatchway)

-MJ
 
If a knife maker chooses to be humble about his knife or critical of his own work - even if it is good by 'general standards' - how does that make it a negative reflection on your work? How is it you are insulted?
No one here said your 'efforts are not worth shit.' No here rubbed it in your face.
What is the point of your post?
 
Hey Diggergog, this is a personal thing brought on within yourself. I looked back through all your posts and find that you have bought some equipment heard what a belt sounds like when it blows, are building/have built a heat treat oven, made some comments....but posted no knife for anyone to see. Post a knife and get some comments from the gang. They might be helpful critisism or polite comments all the way to "I fell out my chair when I looked at your knife". Whatever the comments are (sometimes a 1,000 looks and no comments), grow through them. I have learned that "beauty IS in the eye of the beholder" and "the mark of a true craftsman is to see, correct or incorporate the flaw as a part of what you are making so the viewer thinks you meant it to be there". Like has been said we all strive to do better, just try to enjoy the ride there. I say again...Hi my name is Jim....I'm a knifeaholic.
Jim
 
Tracy I think Nick's post summed it up pretty well - I'm one of those mid-50s out of shape guys, and I know damn well if some lean punk started complaining about his bodyfat while I was sweating myself silly to try to get back in shape...it'd piss me off too. (Don't worry Nick, I'm never going to try to get myself back in shape so you won't have to walk on eggs around me. :D)

That being said, I'd like to reiterate what others have mentioned - that pointing out the flaws in our work is a form of humility and a way to let those who will also see them know that we're not just thumping our chests in bogus pride.

Any craftsman strives to do the best work he can, and it's a very long learning curve to come to the point in anyone's career where they think they're routinely doing the best work they can. Personally I'm embarrased to some extent by everything I make - because I know what I intended it to be and it is never that good.

None of us can make anything that is flawless. I think most makers understand that very keenly and do not want to be mistaken for some arrogant 'wipe. Pointing out the errors we see up front is one way to do that in a mode of communication devoid of body language to give our words context.

Frankly, I'd make stuff regardless what anyone else thought of it. I've shown knives here to assure my friends that I really do make knives (though a picture is not proof, is it? :D) and because every knife I've made has a bit of my life and soul in it, and sharing it with those who also care feels good. Like I'm a part of something worthwhile.
 
Thank you all for your comments and opinions. You provide a different point of view and as long as the criticism is sincere I realize it's just a knifemaker recognizing their own flaws. I too am my own worst critic. I appreciate all the insight and I have to agree with just about everyone. I will look forward to posting some of my own pics in the coming weeks.
 
Diggerdog said:
Thank you all for your comments and opinions. You provide a different point of view and as long as the criticism is sincere I realize it's just a knifemaker recognizing their own flaws. I too am my own worst critic. I appreciate all the insight and I have to agree with just about everyone. I will look forward to posting some of my own pics in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...

You came back with a class response after taking some flak - good for you. Glad to have you here -- welcome to the party. Now let's see one of your knives...
 
I'd like to add my two cents worth again.:D This was the first forum I joined when I got a computer 2 years ago. I knew absolutely nothing about computers, the internet or the BIG knife community that existed in cyberspace. I have to give credit to all the veterans in shoptalk for where I am today with my knifemaking. You cannot get the knowledge you get here anywhere else on the planet. The help from the guys here is priceless. Diggerdog, you couldn't ask for a better place to be if you want help from sincere honest craftsman. I look forward to seeing some of your work.:thumbup:
Scott
 
I guess I was lucky and gained some perspective along the way. I didn't make my first P.O S. knife until I was over fifty and had worked in the semiconductor and industrial automation most of my life. Talk about attention to detail and precision.

I brought this crap to the first NECKA Hammer In and put it on display, fully expecting to be run out of town by 9:00 am.

I got quite a few nice complements (mostly for the stand I made for it) but than George Daily sat down with me, gave me a compliment and then asked me what I would do better the next time. He then added to my already long list and encouraged me to keep at it.

Later, Frank Potter (gone but not forgotten) gave me some pointers on how to improve my approach to some of the problems. Gee, nice guys, I thanked them both for their time. Then I saw some of their work, I darn near fainted.

I have to tell the truth, this knife was so simple, a cheap SS poorly made throwing blade I reshaped and made some scales for. It was asemetrical from every angle, the polished blade and glued down scales had gross variations and obvious scratches from poor sanding. I still have it, and sometimes I want to just throw it away, but you know, knife #7 with my own guard, pommel and mortised handle has even more problems, but looks better. ???

Yes, the better we get, the more we seem to expect from ourselves, I only make knives as a hobby. But my other hobbies and work are the same, I have reccieved some great comments and but I remain ever critical, I also learned to not take myself too seriously, I know there are always going to be people that are better than me and have come to grips with it.

I agree with you, some times I see a "first" knife and say "No way", but than I remember some first timers that just have a great bit of talent (or luck) so I just have to leave it at their own soul's future.
 
To sum up these posts, and to add some flavor of my own, I'll say this... f all the knife forums out there this is the one I call home. Why? Because this group of people represent the embodiment of what knifemaking fellowship must be in order to survive and flourish. A sense of grace and congeniality to the fellow maker. An aire of cooperation. No secrets. Free and open communication between makers, young and old, novice and veteran.

I have seen guys go out of their way to offer help and even materials to
other makers here to help them along their path. I've made some wonderful frends here. I hope they all feel the same way about me.

This IS a great place to be. Mark Williams and I have a dream of a Knifemaker's Utopia. Its a place where a knifemaker can go and, like a monk in a monastery, be totally-immersed in the craft. Well I say this forum is as close to that as we have right now. Maybe some day we'll have a 500-acre ranch out in the middle of nowwhere to forge damascus and make edged things all day. Until then, we have each other, and we have BLADEFORUMS SHOPTALK! CAN I GET A HOO-RAH? :D :thumbup:
 
HOO-RAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too am fairly new here, it has been the best shot in the arm that I have had in a long while and I am an 18 yr. veteran knifemaker. I like it here, there are people with the same desease I have here.
Jim
 
Roosko said:
Ha-rumph, Ha-rumph:thumbup: :thumbup:
Click to expand...


I didn't get a ha-rumph out of that guy!:grumpy:



---it's been too long since I've had the chance to reference Blazing Saddles... what a great movie. Thanks for the opportunity!
 
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