I don't see what difference there is between a narrow lock bar and a small contact area on a wide lock bar.
If there is an "enemy", then there must be a widespread problem. What's the problem?
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titanium frame locks
- Thread starter Jonsa
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If there is an "enemy", then there must be a widespread problem. What's the problem?
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I was saying that some makers feel that too much contact area is worse for some problems such as slippage. As for their being no difference between a wide lock bar with less surface contact some feel that a wider lockbar is more rigid and flexes less which i agree with. I had a crkt ripple and the lockbar was very narrow and thin and did not seem as sturdy as a wider and shorter lockbar. Lockbars flex in all four directions. So even if reducing the contact area of the lockface a wider lockbar can be more rigid to provide the support for that lockface. I also much prefer a lockbar that does not flex easily for flippers with strong detents.
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Agree with most of that. I just don't see how you're going to get slippage unless your engagement angle is great enough to actually have leverage on the lock bar end.
This is a ZT that slips:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...s-breaking-in-(with-video)?highlight=zt+angle
This is the engagement angle of a Sebenza:
Which one looks like it is going to be a problem? Which one is 25+ years working correctly? I just don't understand why a new knife would have a significantly different angle than one everyone knows works.
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See that is the thing i dont judge anything by how it looks. Often what i see with my eyes has nothing to do with what actually is. And i cant tell you why other makers decide to do things differently than a single mr Chris reeve. But I know a lot of them do. But just because chris reeves lock setup works i dont feel immediately means it is superior. I simply feel its different. And i have locks on numerous knives that "look" like the zt lock you say slips and they are rock solid. Hence the reason i dont trust my eyesight for judging such things. While i feel chris reeve is a great maker who has advanced the hobby more than most i dont feel his way is the only way. Especially when it comes to flippers as he refuses to make one. And you would think if anyone could do that better it would be him.
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Hopefully this works, using Tapatalk and not really used to it.
Quick read:
Did you know? STR's Tips and Tricks for knife care
Generally speaking, liner-style locks are supposed to "wedge" against the blade tang near the bottom (edge-side) and sideways as well for maximum strength and apparently minimal surface contact. This also allows for wear as lock begins engaging later and later.
However liner-style locks are notoriously not good at absorbing repeated heavy or sharp impacts that can lead to lockface deformation and resulting poor lockup. In some cases that might even include the assisted-open "snaps" or wrist flicks.
Quick read:
Did you know? STR's Tips and Tricks for knife care
Generally speaking, liner-style locks are supposed to "wedge" against the blade tang near the bottom (edge-side) and sideways as well for maximum strength and apparently minimal surface contact. This also allows for wear as lock begins engaging later and later.
However liner-style locks are notoriously not good at absorbing repeated heavy or sharp impacts that can lead to lockface deformation and resulting poor lockup. In some cases that might even include the assisted-open "snaps" or wrist flicks.
I have no idea if the engagement angle is directly to blame for the ZT unlocking, but the most secure locking angle is perpendicular to the movement of the blade. It doesn't matter what kind of lock you're talking about. My point is simply that having demonstrated that a liner or frame lock will function and last at this shallow an angle, what possible rationale would there be for making the angle steeper, when a steeper angle can only decrease the security of the lock?
There might be a variety of manufacturing or wear reasons for doing it, but it is still geometrically a compromise. And, of course, the old way seems to wear well as well.
All of these mechanisms are overbuilt, and will resist blade unlock even if they aren't real well designed. I think that's why this isn't more a more common problem - rather than proof that one design is as good as another. But that ZT looks terrible to my eye.
I have a 3 year old ti frame lock that cost would cost 685 new today. The blade and frame are in good shape it does not appear to have ever been abused. When I received it I found the lock sticky and altogether crappy. I contacted the maker and arranged to send the knife and 40 bucks to him for lock repair.
The maker told me that the knife was on its last legs and could not be repaired. The lock had a lot of wear that he could not replace. He says he has "rebuilt the knife" 4 times already.
The knife was made September of 12 and by the end of 14 it was shot.
The current model of this knife has a steel lock bar insert.
My guess is sometimes ti frame locks wear out but most of the problems are in the design.
My lesson was that money doesn't buy a solid ti frame lock.
The maker told me that the knife was on its last legs and could not be repaired. The lock had a lot of wear that he could not replace. He says he has "rebuilt the knife" 4 times already.
The knife was made September of 12 and by the end of 14 it was shot.
The current model of this knife has a steel lock bar insert.
My guess is sometimes ti frame locks wear out but most of the problems are in the design.
My lesson was that money doesn't buy a solid ti frame lock.
Any chance you'd actually name this product? It would be nice to hear something other than broad praise for everything.
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Again, I dont know why certain knife companies do it different. What I do know is that the majority of the companies doing it know more about how to build knives than both of us put together. And that no matter how much speculation I can create with my eyesight its probably not painting the whole picture.
I wont call the maker out yet and may never. Most likely this knife is a problem knife that has been passed around for 3 years and each person has sent it in for work and then just resold it when the maker cant make the lock right. I am waiting for the person who sold it to me a few months ago to respond to a PM and see what he knew. He said the knife had no issues but that he had sent it to the maker for sharpening. If I had bought the knife new from the maker or authorized distributor I would be a yard up there a$$ by now. Unfortunately I don't have and likely will never have the whole story and therefore will not slander a maker with a good reputation.
I am keeping it just to ensure that someone else doesn't get screwed. I will not let it go back in to circulation. I will just have a real expensive beater in my truck console.
Hmmm. I guess I'm just a little stunned that the maker said they've had it in for service so many times, and they haven't replaced it. It may well be a "problem knife", but it is their problem knife that they have examined a total of 5 times in 2 years.
Maybe some makers have good reputations because everybody would rather not say anything in public.
Its hard to call someone out if you don't know what post owners have done to cause the problem. I did expect the maker to make it right. He did not. I also will not ask him to replace it until I have done my due diligence and found out the whole story or enough to know it is all on him. I am doing that now. I will follow up with the seller again and more directly before I call him out here and give him a chance to do what is right before I slander him. I would hope someone would do the same for me although I know that is not likely.
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Well I by no means have the whole story but if the knife hasnt been modified and it has lock up issues and the maker isnt fixing it or at least offering to fix it for a charge since you arent the first owner then I dont really consider it slander. Slander to me is is lighting someone up who has actually done everything in their power yet you still flame em. This doesnt seem to be the case. I respect your decision not to call him out but I have had makers who wont touch their own work at any price and it makes no sense to me.
