Titanium liner wear

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Bucketz21

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Mar 3, 2013
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How significant will the wear on a titanium liner lock bar be on a knife that gets opened a hundred times a day or more? I'm thinking of making an investment in a knife that will be my highest dollar knife, but almost my most played with. it's going to get opened and then peeled off of that m390 a lot a lot. Without any kind of insert, would this immediately scare you away? worry you in certain situations, but not others? the wear wouldn't be enough of an issue to bother you? i'm sure there's similar discussion threads here, but search is giving me trouble. thanks
 
It depends heavily on the maker and the lock geometry. To be honest, there are too many variables involved to give you a particularly useful answer. If you're concerned, I would send the knife off to have the lock face carbidized.

Personally, I don't like the idea of Ti lock interfaces. It makes sense to make a frame out of it, but a lock interface would be better-made with a harder material.
 
As long as it’s carbidized it should be fine if it’s well made. In my experience I have two Hinderers and a ZT 561 that have no lock stick and the lockup hasn’t moved even then tho a insert does put the mind at ease. I think it would probably take years to wear one out but a insert would take longer and then you could replace it for another.
 
I have Ti frame lock knives without inserts, production, midtech, and custom.
I have played with them a lot and have not seen any changes at the lock face on any of them.
 
Much to do over nothing. Even my most loved knives eventually lose their luster. You won't open it hundred times a day for very long. That said, even if you did, I don't see, or have read about anyone wearing out their knife.
 
I own a bunch of Spyderco Southards, and after seeing the regular fear mongering about titanium to steel lock bar wear I decided years ago to actively try to see the problem in action. I flipped the same already broken-in Southard every day for an extended period, over a year, at least 25 times day--some days much more. If I traveled and didn't have the knife with me, I flipped it the extra couple of hundred times I owed when I returned. I also frequently carried and used the same knife.

After flipping it thousands of times the lockup appeared to be totally unchanged. The surface of the lock bar that contact the blade appeared the same, the position at which it rested when the knife opened was unchanged and it operated the same way it had when I started.

The same knife is one of my favorites, and I've carried it a considerable amount in the years since my little totally unscientific experiment. It still locks up at the same spot on the blade today as it did when I flipped it obsessively for a year.
 
Bucketz21 said:
How significant will the wear on a titanium liner lock bar be on a knife that gets opened a hundred times a day or more?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this will be a quality Walker Liner Lock made by reputable company? If so I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't endlessly flick my knives but the knife on the left has been opened and used dozens of times a day,everyday, for three years.Still locks up tight with plenty of room for even more wear.

It was replaced by the one one the right only because I wanted to try a differant steel. That one has been used several times daily for the past seven months.

14vrb82.jpg
 
JMHO: It depends at what price point the knife is at, but leaving out a steel insert is a cost cutting move inappropriate on a high dollar knife. It might have been okay when frame locks first became available because the design was still evolving, but frame lock design has matured to include an insert, despite some dinosaurs still walking around.

There are $150 Chinese knives which come with a steel insert; no excuse for a $300+ knife not to have one. The WE Rectifier for $145 is just one of many examples.

Again, JHMO
 
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The place I work at operates 24 hours a day, 365 days every year. Things wear out at work faster than they do at home. That's because, even though the life span of an appliance or chair is the same as at home, it's life span seems to be shortened at work. But, the reality is that when something is used more often than it's intended normal use, it will wear out faster than if it is used under normal circumstances.
Food for thought.
 
Thanks for the input. you hear in reviews all the time about the mushy feeling. My example would be a walker liner, which I would assume is more prone to deformation than a full lock bar (thinner), and I assume most wear comes from open/close, which I would utilize a lot on a toy-around knife. So I was a little worried about it, but didn't know if it was something to look for in a week or a decade. I think I've mostly decided not to lose sleep over it, but little things make you hesitate on uncomfortable purchases, so more thoughts or anecdotes welcome!
 
What's the knife in question?
I've got a few without issues and a few with. So it varies depending on lock geometry, tolerances etc.
 
I have had some line locks for years now, and they wear very little if at all. That said, I EDC them, I don't flip them non stop.
 
just another semi interesting semi side note to this. with another shop, ya we can build a left hander, but it's going to cost you the stainless insert (I assume its an ordered part). wellllll is it still an $xxx knife then? I don't know, probably. sacrifices of being a lefty (I thought the $xxx was sacrifice enough) and all. but ya, kinda related. go back to what you were doing.
 
I was discussing this on another forum not to long ago, when people refer to "titanium" frame-locks most are not aware that manufactures use different grades of titanium for there knives.
Its like referring to blade steel as "stainless" or "damascus"...there are so many kinds of each and some far more suitable for a specific task.
Some makers are using what equals to "pot metal" as there stock for milling frame locks....Im surprised this hasn't been a topic in the past..
 
brandoak said:
I was discussing this on another forum not to long ago, when people refer to "titanium" frame-locks most are not aware that manufactures use different grades of titanium for there knives.
Its like referring to blade steel as "stainless" or "damascus"...there are so many kinds of each and some far more suitable for a specific task.
Some makers are using what equals to "pot metal" as there stock for milling frame locks....Im surprised this hasn't been a topic in the past..
Click to expand...

True but it seems like the vast vast majority of ti used is that grade 5 6al4v stuff.
 
...and Bark river stamped how many knives with 3V? :D would be an interesting topic...and how can I test my titanium to know if its made of a titanium alloy instead of a Commercially Pure titanium?
I know they grind different, one puts off sparks and the other does not.
 
evilgreg said:
I own a bunch of Spyderco Southards, and after seeing the regular fear mongering about titanium to steel lock bar wear I decided years ago to actively try to see the problem in action. I flipped the same already broken-in Southard every day for an extended period, over a year, at least 25 times day--some days much more. If I traveled and didn't have the knife with me, I flipped it the extra couple of hundred times I owed when I returned. I also frequently carried and used the same knife.

After flipping it thousands of times the lockup appeared to be totally unchanged. The surface of the lock bar that contact the blade appeared the same, the position at which it rested when the knife opened was unchanged and it operated the same way it had when I started.

The same knife is one of my favorites, and I've carried it a considerable amount in the years since my little totally unscientific experiment. It still locks up at the same spot on the blade today as it did when I flipped it obsessively for a year.
Click to expand...

You know, I am always glad to see an opinion formed by personal use. Too often these days the internet is populated by parrots that simply repeat what they read or hear. Real use and personal experience don't seem to hold much weight these days. So thanks for the post. I don't own any frame lock Ti knives as for me they aren't comfortable for me to use on the construction site when my hands are wet with sweat, grease and dirt. But I have seen so many negative posts about wear that I wondered about the validity of the whole argument. As far as my liner lock knives go, no Ti on them either so I don't have any first hand experience with Ti.

As a sidebar, I remember all the oceans full of crap and misinformation when liner locks took off. Buck, Schrade, etc. all had back locks, and by George that was all that was safe. Sadly, there have been a lot of really poor offerings and some of the knives sold with liner locks are actually unsafe. But I have liner lockers (Spyderco, RAT, Kershaw, ZT and Benchmade) that have stood up to years of real work out on the job site. As a "hands on" guy, my knives get used to cut all manner of things. Yet, despite all the warnings of failure and predictions of liner locks being to dangerous to depend on along with the fact they wear out easily, I have never had a liner lock on a quality knife fail. To top that off, none of the liner lockers from the previous mentioned makers show any kind of lockup problems. I would have to imagine that might be the case with a Ti knife lockup device. Crappy design, poor materials, bad build execution, etc., would make any knife fail.

The biggest mover in my liner lock working knives would be the RAT 1, which was carried religiously for about 3-4 years every day after I got it as I really liked it that much. Since it never failed, I never gave it a thought when using it and it suffered a lot of hard, nasty use. Still, about ten years later, the lock bar has moved from the first third of the blade to a little closer (although not there) to the middle.

Robert
 
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