Titanium sux

[JoeBusic]

Eats belts like crazy. Soft or hardened. Sharpening my drill bits a lot. Any advice to get better at it or this is just what it is?

 

[The Zieg]

Mecha ?

Zieg

 

[tinfoil hat timmy]

titanium work hardens.

use coolant and proper feeds and speeds

 

[JoeBusic]

titanium work hardens.

use coolant and proper feeds and speeds

I'm going slow. 4" wheel and cca 25Hz on a 4 pole motor. That's slow. High pressure gives me nice shaves, not dust. Still I need belts in pairs of each to finish one 6" blade. And it's the same with soft and hardened to >60HRC. I drill only soft, but need to sharpen the bits after almost 3 or 4 holes. Drilling for a second with a 2s cool with compressed air and a drop of oil.

 

[Pinoy Knife]

my favorite stuff to use!! very strong for the weight can be colored, no acid alone can eat/destroy it..
yea it can be difficult to work with...but that is just its "personality" like many things you adapt and get used to it..
carbide drills/reamers help alot...good belts become a requirement..

 

[JoeBusic]

my favorite stuff to use!! very strong for the weight can be colored, no acid alone can eat/destroy it..
yea it can be difficult to work with...but that is just its "personality" like many things you adapt and get used to it..
carbide drills/reamers help alot...good belts become a requirement..

I'm using HSS. So transition to carbide should help. Reamers is now on my shopping list. Essentially it's just what it is. Thanks.

 

[Lorien]

I'm going slow. 4" wheel and cca 25Hz on a 4 pole motor. That's slow. High pressure gives me nice shaves, not dust. Still I need belts in pairs of each to finish one 6" blade. And it's the same with soft and hardened to >60HRC. I drill only soft, but need to sharpen the bits after almost 3 or 4 holes. Drilling for a second with a 2s cool with compressed air and a drop of oil.

your ti is hardened to over 60? I didn't think that was possible!

ti is notoriously hard to work with for good reason, there are no easy workarounds as far as I know. Working with ti is one of the reasons I've become proficient at sharpening drill bits. It builds up heat super fast, so slow speeds and cutting fluid help a lot when it comes to drilling. As for grinding, gloves help a lot since it gets hot so fast

 

[JoeBusic]

your ti is hardened to over 60? I didn't think that was possible!

I've devised a method to make it compete with carbon steels. TiAlV is a bitch to grind, but hardened it's a bitch squared.

Working with ti is one of the reasons I've become proficient at sharpening drill bits.

I don't feel alone any more.

 

[Mobius1]

Ti is pretty hard to work with, but the main trick as someone already stated, is to go slow. Reduce your speeds to very slow.

I also like to use Kool Mist which all around helps.

 

[navman]

Carbide! I used HSS reamers on some 6AL4V/GR 5 Ti once...almost lit the bed of my mill on fire!

 

[Mobius1]

I've never had problems with my HSS bits. Go with Norseman Viking (if you haven't already) bits and you'll never go back!

 

[Mecha]

With normal-type drill bits the key is to use just the right pressure to guide the cutting edges of the bit below the surface (which instantly work-hardens), for a nice thick huge spiral of cut ti. Like peeling an apple that's instantly regenerating its skin. Fairly low bit speed of course, and ideally NO coolant and and very sharp high quality bit. Just don't even for a moment allow the bit to rub on the ti, rather than continuously cut. With a careful touch, it should zip right through.

 

[JoeBusic]

With normal-type drill bits the key is to use just the right pressure to guide the cutting edges of the bit below the surface (which instantly work-hardens), for a nice thick huge spiral of cut ti. Like peeling an apple that's instantly regenerating its skin. Fairly low bit speed of course, and ideally NO coolant and and very sharp high quality bit. Just don't even for a moment allow the bit to rub on the ti, rather than continuously cut. With a careful touch, it should zip right through.

So, to deduce thigs a little. It seems, as in the photo, that my spiral is too thin. That would mean, I was always in the hardened zone and that is the reason for premature dulling of the bit. Shallow means my sharpening was not suited for deeper cuts and more pressure would just mean more rubbing down, ergo, faster work hardening. I will try some different angles when sharpening to seek balance of cut and pressure.


Edit: tried with a new bit to go thru at once and made one and a half holes. 6mm is too thick, seems like. Next is carbide. So, we'll see.

Holes look good.

 

[Mecha]

So, to deduce thigs a little. It seems, as in the photo, that my spiral is too thin. That would mean, I was always in the hardened zone and that is the reason for premature dulling of the bit. Shallow means my sharpening was not suited for deeper cuts and more pressure would just mean more rubbing down, ergo, faster work hardening. I will try some different angles when sharpening to seek balance of cut and pressure.

View attachment 2225996
Edit: tried with a new bit to go thru at once and made one and a half holes. 6mm is too thick, seems like. Next is carbide. So, we'll see.
View attachment 2226321
Holes look good.

It's a strange-looking spiral. Mine would be like 18 inches long with no rippling, whipping around the drill press' bit. Is your spiral springy and boingy, or papery and crispy, able to be easily pulled apart?

6mm is indeed really thick. I would probably only get 2 clean, smooth, non-overheated holes out of a bit. I just consider that $5 the cost of the hole.

Even carbide bits are likely to get destroyed relatively quickly, but maybe they'll work better for you, since it depends on the user. When it comes to this sort of stuff, I can only explain how I do it. Ti is sensitive and reactive, and there are many ways to work it but unfortunately most are detrimental to the material and almost none are efficient.

 

[JoeBusic]

It's a strange-looking spiral. Mine would be like 18 inches long with no rippling, whipping around the drill press' bit. Is your spiral springy and boingy, or papery and crispy, able to be easily pulled apart?

Both. Up to a point it's springy and then it breaks. Very thin. Can cut.

6mm is indeed really thick. I would probably only get 2 clean, smooth, non-overheated holes out of a bit. I just consider that $5 the cost of the hole.

This is good info. So it's not me. It just is.

Even carbide bits are likely to get destroyed relatively quickly, but maybe they'll work better for you, since it depends on the user. When it comes to this sort of stuff, I can only explain how I do it. Ti is sensitive and reactive, and there are many ways to work it but unfortunately most are detrimental to the material and almost none are efficient.

This one is probably the most important message. I will try with a carbide bit made for high hardness and Ti, as they say. Just to add: when pushing thru the thickness with a new bit, I got no spiral but chips, thick and several mm long. Seems like it was to thick to bend and broke away. It was kinda nice to see. Clean holes and no wiping around. It looked like shredding on a mill. On the second hole a little beyond half way the internal lightning system in the bit lighted up so I stopped. Interesting to see the bulge on the other side. Sharpened and punched thru.
So in the end doing it hard in two or three goes with fast in and out with some cooling and a drop of oil should give me more work per sharpening.
Essentially, no cheapo way to work with Ti.
Feeling smarter now.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Joe, will you share your method for hardening Ti to Rc60 with us.

 

[JoeBusic]

Joe, will you share your method for hardening Ti to Rc60 with us.

I would really like to. Ti and steel. Unfortunately, I'm a slave in EU (yeah, it's a thing and it's annoying; 15 years and counting). To pull out I need an edge and create value as other means went bust. My freedom costs 200k€ before negotiations.
All I can say, it's a form of Alpha martensite aged differently thru several steps. I have managed to make it more forgiving (100% success) with additional steps as a lot of precision is required with lower step count (30% success). In the end it hammers thru nails as steel does and still has lots of toughness. I hope soon to check for bulletproofing. Next in line is carbidize it internally. For now it's a lengthy proces so figuring out a shorter proces is my goal. I'll continue with that when I stabilize.
For now my anxiety burns a lot of sugar. I have 2 months to eviction (postponed it several times) and here it means for ever. Once homeless, no chance getting back on one's feet. I'm really smart but the wicked have set up this crap for decades and they are winning. American freedom is a nuisance to the wicked. I sincerely hope that Americans hold up thru this crisis. That way, one day, I'll find a way to emigrate.

 

[FredyCro]

I would really like to. Ti and steel. Unfortunately, I'm a slave in EU (yeah, it's a thing and it's annoying; 15 years and counting). To pull out I need an edge and create value as other means went bust. My freedom costs 200k€ before negotiations.
All I can say, it's a form of Alpha martensite aged differently thru several steps. I have managed to make it more forgiving (100% success) with additional steps as a lot of precision is required with lower step count (30% success). In the end it hammers thru nails as steel does and still has lots of toughness. I hope soon to check for bulletproofing. Next in line is carbidize it internally. For now it's a lengthy proces so figuring out a shorter proces is my goal. I'll continue with that when I stabilize.
For now my anxiety burns a lot of sugar. I have 2 months to eviction (postponed it several times) and here it means for ever. Once homeless, no chance getting back on one's feet. I'm really smart but the wicked have set up this crap for decades and they are winning. American freedom is a nuisance to the wicked. I sincerely hope that Americans hold up thru this crisis. That way, one day, I'll find a way to emigrate.

Good luck and think twice before you had west. If you are into country style life on the cheap, I would head east. Slovenia and Croatia are part of the EU and have beautiful countrysides where large properties can be bought for not much money. Mind you, not on the coast or touristic routes.

Would love to see some bids on the testing of your Ti knives.

As for the drills, on someone's recommendation I have bought cheap twist bits with carbide tips from ebay. They are like a 1 Euro a piece and will do multiple holes in hardened HSS before they go dull. Use/abuse and throw away if your HSS bits stop working.

 

[JoeBusic]

Good luck and think twice before you had west. If you are into country style life on the cheap, I would head east. Slovenia and Croatia are part of the EU and have beautiful countrysides where large properties can be bought for not much money. Mind you, not on the coast or touristic routes.

I'm in Croatia. Our laws made me wanna run away.

Would love to see some bids on the testing of your Ti knives.

Will do.

As for the drills, on someone's recommendation I have bought cheap twist bits with carbide tips from ebay. They are like a 1 Euro a piece and will do multiple holes in hardened HSS before they go dull. Use/abuse and throw away if your HSS bits stop working.

I'm going for Italian made carbide bits. Extremely fine grain and can cut thru 70HRC.

 

[Mecha]

I would really like to. Ti and steel. Unfortunately, I'm a slave in EU (yeah, it's a thing and it's annoying; 15 years and counting). To pull out I need an edge and create value as other means went bust. My freedom costs 200k€ before negotiations.
All I can say, it's a form of Alpha martensite aged differently thru several steps. I have managed to make it more forgiving (100% success) with additional steps as a lot of precision is required with lower step count (30% success). In the end it hammers thru nails as steel does and still has lots of toughness. I hope soon to check for bulletproofing. Next in line is carbidize it internally. For now it's a lengthy proces so figuring out a shorter proces is my goal. I'll continue with that when I stabilize.
For now my anxiety burns a lot of sugar. I have 2 months to eviction (postponed it several times) and here it means for ever. Once homeless, no chance getting back on one's feet. I'm really smart but the wicked have set up this crap for decades and they are winning. American freedom is a nuisance to the wicked. I sincerely hope that Americans hold up thru this crisis. That way, one day, I'll find a way to emigrate.

Sounds like you need an escape boat!