Titillated by Ti

I envision a tool where the handle and blade are heat treated and perhaps finished to equivalent levels. Where increases in strength can be achieved without unduly increasing mass, where we have room for new levels of innovations.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
I envision a tool where the handle and blade are heat treated and perhaps finished to equivalent levels. Where increases in strength can be achieved without unduly increasing mass, where we have room for new levels of innovations.

n2s
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I'm not receiving your (somewhat convoluted) message...especially as regards how it benefits a "folding" knife.

Not trying to be difficult, but your replies seem nebulous...
 
Um, why would we want the handle to be heat treated like a blade? That seems like wasted effort for zero gain. To me, at least.

3d printing technology is still in its infancy and I expect major changes and improvements along the way. However, you really don’t want the handle to be too light making the knife feel too blade heavy.
 
not2sharp said:
Over the last 20 years we have seen our cutlery steels continue to advance, both in their chemical composition and in the method of heat treatment. Some have are also remarkably corrosion resistant, capable of long term salt water emergence with seemingly minimal damage.
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Titanium is already more corrosion resistant than stainless steel.

If you've already won the race out of the blocks you don't need to advance.
 
Blues said:
That doesn't answer the question. In what regard would it be superior in this application?
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Like aluminum for aircraft and iron for tools, Titanium pushes design into new directions. The application isn't superior, but evolving.
 
Delgadonine said:
Like aluminum for aircraft and iron for tools, Titanium pushes design into new directions. The application isn't superior, but evolving.
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You're not getting the point. In a folding knife the ultimate strength and weight of the handle is secondary to the integrity of the lock and pivot, not to mention the integrity of the blade.

If we want light, you'll have to work at breaking even an unlined carbon fiber handle. I've seen my buddy, knife maker Jerry Halfrich, break off blades before he could ruin an unlined carbon fiber handle on one of his slipjoints.

The foregoing argument is like a tempest in a teapot. I still have not heard one example of how his allusion to "carbon steel" would prove superior to titanium in this application.

Further arguing on my part seems to be a losing proposition here, so I'll quit before I turn to day drinking.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
I've yet to own a titanium handled knife, but I'm perpetually confused why more companies don't make thick slabbed titanium handled knives akin to CRK and Chavez.

For my taste CRK has the best surface finish as well.
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Well, titanium is a lot more costly than aluminum, and it is more difficult to machine. Both factors add significantly to the cost of the knife. For a folding knife, aluminum is plenty strong enough to serve as a handle material when you have slabs of a few millimeters thickness.
 
Blues said:
If we want light, you'll have to work at breaking even an unlined carbon fiber handle. I've seen my buddy, knife maker Jerry Halfrich, break off blades before he could ruin an unlined carbon fiber handle on one of his slipjoints.
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This, 1 million times over! Thank you!

The talk about ultimate strength in knives, ESPECIALLY folders, is absolutely ridiculous. The blade, especially on folders, is by far the weakest point.

Locks, and pivot size, and stop pin size are all irrelevant in terms of strength compared to the blade.
 
J. Doyle said:
This, 1 million times over! Thank you!

The talk about ultimate strength in knives, ESPECIALLY folders, is absolutely ridiculous. The blade, especially on folders, is by far the weakest point.

Locks, and pivot size, and stop pin size are all irrelevant in terms of strength compared to the blade.
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Interesting. So you're saying that the blade is more likely to snap where the hole is cut for the pivot, more so than the stop pin or lock mechanism failing?

I hadn't considered that, although I have seen folders that look to have a weaker design in that area specifically. Others that definitely have overly thin tips too... I want to be able to "stab" if necessary but I don't want to carry a pocket fixed blade.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
Interesting. So you're saying that the blade is more likely to snap where the hole is cut for the pivot, more so than the stop pin or lock mechanism failing?

I hadn't considered that, although I have seen folders that look to have a weaker design in that area specifically. Others that definitely have overly thin tips too... I want to be able to "stab" if necessary but I don't want to carry a pocket fixed blade.
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Yes. Or just the blade anywhere in general. Out in the middle or near the tip or through the pivot/stop pin area. All of it is weaker than almost any lock mechanism.

Think about the force it would take to shear a pin, even something small like a 3/32" pin, or rip it out of titanium liners....or even carbon fiber scales. Most blades wouldn't survive that.
 
J. Doyle said:
Yes. Or just the blade anywhere in general. Out in the middle or near the tip or through the pivot/stop pin area. All of it is weaker than almost any lock mechanism.

Think about the force it would take to shear a pin, even something small like a 3/32" pin, or rip it out of titanium liners....or even carbon fiber scales. Most blades wouldn't survive that.
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I'm not sure if this makes me feel better or not lol. I have a favored crossbar lock folder with a petite stop pin which bugs me (why use such a petite pin when you've got such a strong lock).... but when I think about it, you're right.

In the same way it's difficult to snap a really small stick in half vs a long one, that pin will probably hold up to a lot of force.... whereas the longer blade might snap.

But I also consider liner locks with stop pins and I wonder how the force would be dispersed between the two (in a stabbing motion). It feels like the liner would fail before the blade snapped but I could be completely wrong.

As stupid as it sounds, one of the reasons I carry a 3.5" to 4" folder is self defense. Not just for humans but dogs too lol. I've gotten pretty weird about inspecting the cutout for the pivot, as well as how the radii are cut for whatever locking mechanism/stop pin. That area seams like a possible weak failure point but I never considered other parts of the blade snapping.

It would really bum me out to have to carry a fixed blade but damn... might have to start :(

Are you the one who makes folders with really beefy liner locks? I saw some pics from a maker here who did custom folders with the most appropriate liners I've ever seen.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
I'm not sure if this makes me feel better or not lol. I have a favored crossbar lock folder with a petite stop pin which bugs me (why use such a petite pin when you've got such a strong lock).... but when I think about it, you're right.

In the same way it's difficult to snap a really small stick in half vs a long one, that pin will probably hold up to a lot of force.... whereas the longer blade might snap.

But I also consider liner locks with stop pins and I wonder how the force would be dispersed between the two (in a stabbing motion). It feels like the liner would fail before the blade snapped but I could be completely wrong.

As stupid as it sounds, one of the reasons I carry a 3.5" to 4" folder is self defense. Not just for humans but dogs too lol. I've gotten pretty weird about inspecting the cutout for the pivot, as well as how the radii are cut for whatever locking mechanism/stop pin. That area seams like a possible weak failure point but I never considered other parts of the blade snapping.

It would really bum me out to have to carry a fixed blade but damn... might have to start :(

Are you the one who makes folders with really beefy liner locks? I saw some pics from a maker here who did custom folders with the most appropriate liners I've ever seen.
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I try to use appropriate liners for the knife.

I typically use two sizes- .040" thick for small, thin gents folders where overall thinness and lightweight is the goal. That's about as thin as you can go and still get good thread engagement for your screws.

Then I use .070" thick for the rest of my folders, which finishes out to about .065".

The problem is anything thicker than about .060" requires some sort of relief cutout so the lock operates properly. The cutout is the reason that frame locks aren't any stronger than liner locks even though a lot of people claim that. The relief cutout still needs to be .045"- .060". So that becomes the equalizer as far as lock bar strength because that's where it will fail if it's going to. And lock contact area has nothing to do with it either.

As far as stabbing goes, most of the load is still on the stop pin not the lockbar unless you really get wild and put a huge stress on the spine.

I've still never seen a stop pin break OR rip out of the scales/liners holding it, even in torture/destruction "tests".

I guess if wild/indiscriminate stabbing (as in defense) might be a possible scenario for your knife, you might want to choose a beefy fixed blade with reinforced point/tip.

As far as normal knife use goes, it would be *almost* impossible to break a stop pin or tear it out of the liners, even with heavy/inappropriate use.
 
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