To carry or not to carry?

I don't carry for self-defense. I have no training, so I think it would be futile even if I did.

I think there are three possibilities that go with pulling out your knife in a confrontation:

1. The bad guy has a gun. You're dead.

2. The bad guy has a knife too. You may still be dead.

3. The bad guy has no weapon. You're going to prison (go to the link about the Harvard student in Esav's post), where lots of really huge violent people are going to regularly treat you worse than the bad guy probably would have.

My option is to throw down my money clip with some 1s and 5s, say "here's 50 bucks" and run like hell. I try to be aware of my surroundings, and avoid bad neighborhoods and scuzzy bars, especially at night. I sometimes carry pepper spray. So far I've been lucky.

I respect the right of others to carry for SD, and have admiration for those who have worked hard to train for this purpose. It's just not for me.
 
mnblade said:
>"On the one hand, it seems to me that ultimately it's better to have a knife on you than not; of course you can always choose when to deploy it.

"On the other hand - especially if you're carrying a folder - there is going to be precious time taken in getting it out. Not something I think you'd want to try in the middle of a fight. But this essentially means that you have to make the decision to draw [or not] at the beginning, and if you do draw, it seems pretty much assured that someone's going to die."


---------------------------------------

On the OTHER hand, many of us (in fact, I'd argue the vast majority of folks who tote a knife every day) never ever think self defense. I carry a knife EVERYWHERE I go but that's in case I need to do battle with an apple or stubborn cardboard box or envelope; you know, boring old pocketknife foes. I'm not comfortable with the notion that the decision "to carry a knife or not" is based on life/death scenarios. At least not in this forum. I believe there's a forum under the TRAINING heading where a lot of guys talk self defense. I don't mean to be confrontational - I really don't. It's just that this whole mindset plays right into the hands of the dreaded sheeple, the jerks who say, "who you planning to kill with that thing?," every time I take out my Swiss Army Knife.
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Understood. I thought afterwards that this might have gone into the wrong forum, but it was too late by that point and seemed to generate some discussion.

I understand where you're coming from re: stereotyping and so on with respect to knives, and take no offense.

More generally: thanks for the responses, all; I appreciate it.
 
Keith Mayton said:
I don't carry for self-defense. I have no training, so I think it would be futile even if I did.

I think there are three possibilities that go with pulling out your knife in a confrontation:

1. The bad guy has a gun. You're dead.

2. The bad guy has a knife too. You may still be dead.

3. The bad guy has no weapon. You're going to prison (go to the link about the Harvard student in Esav's post), where lots of really huge violent people are going to regularly treat you worse than the bad guy probably would have.

My option is to throw down my money clip with some 1s and 5s, say "here's 50 bucks" and run like hell. I try to be aware of my surroundings, and avoid bad neighborhoods and scuzzy bars, especially at night. I sometimes carry pepper spray. So far I've been lucky.

I respect the right of others to carry for SD, and have admiration for those who have worked hard to train for this purpose. It's just not for me.
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I see where you're coming from. I've been mulling it over since I started the thread, and I'd like to add a fourth scenario. Namely, a group of aggressors, which is a scenario recently faced by a friend of mine and which has really prompted my whole revisiting of the situation. Certainly I don't fancy myself a knife fighter or anything along those lines; my training has been almost entirely unarmed, and not very extensive, relatively speaking. I guess I'm just thinking worst-case scenario.
 
Guys time to think a little.An attack and fighting back is not just getting jumped by one or more guys in a dark alley.There are times when you have time to get your knife,use surprize etc.

Case in point,A few years back an old retired guy around here has 2 punks force him into his suv.They drive from atm to atm.They stop,and talk about how to kill him.

This old guy with no training and an old fillet in his tackle box,kills one and cuts up the second!

No training,a knife about as far from tactical as you can get, an old man vs. 2 young street crooks,and he wins.

Now without that knife,what do you think would have happened?
 
Lone Hunter said:
Now without that knife,what do you think would have happened?
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It's better to have and not need than to need and not have. But as Robert Heinlein wrote in Starship Troopers: "There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men."

Do what you have to do to protect yourself. There's plenty of room in hell for a few more bad guys. There's only enough room on Earth for us good guys. Self defense also includes leaving the scene, but when there's no other way out, don't grin and shuffle. Go nuts on them. That's when a handy little knife is a very good idea.
 
Ok, ok, I'm awake now.:)

I live in NZ, but live ruraly, so your mileage may vary.

My opinion is to carry, get training, and stay out of sight from LEO's as much as possible.

First thing is first though, there is no 3.25 inch legal limit on blades here. You need a good reason to carry any blade of any length. And self-defense is not accepted in our Dodo bird anti-self-defense society.
You might get away with a SAK, but the Spydie Military will get you in trouble if you're caught with it, and you can't come up with a GOOD reason to have it.

On the other hand, how many times are you searched by cops? I guess it depends whether you live downtown Auckland or not and if it's Sat night, but still, I've always carried and have never had any trouble even on Sat night in Auckland.

NZ is becoming a dangerous place, as the recent various publicised attacks prove. Guns, knives, hammers to the head(like my neighbour), we get it all and plenty of it.
Criminals are emboldened by the fact people are unnarmed and defenseless. (except for some farmers!)
Not to mention the criminals strung up on P, you need to cut their heads off before they stop trying to kill you.

If your attacker has a gun, then what? You're probably dead anyway.
If he has a knife or other weapon, you're in better shape with a knife than without one. Contrary to popular belief, Dodo bird tactics like screaming like a girl and running away don't usually stop an attacker. I'll take my chances fighting back with a knife.
ANd if he has no weapon you shouldn't be taking out you knife anyway. Unless you're outnumbered and in serious life-threatening danger.
Sure regardless, by mere surviving you might be arrested. Atleast you'll be alive.
We can go through all the What if's you want. All I know is that I'm better armed and thus have a better chance to survive an attack WITH my knife, then without it.
I am determined not to be one of the Dodo birds around here in NZ. If that means carrying a blade and risking getting caught, so be it.

If you feel uncomfortable carrying a weapon, then don't.
WHo knows, you might even be one of the lucky people here in NZ that will never be attacked.
As for me, I'm not taking that chance!

What I'm saying is, it's a personal choice for you to carry or not. Your the only one that can answer your question of whether to carry a blade.

Here's a tip though. Carry a blade, and also some fishing equipment. If you're caught by a cop you now have a good reason to be carrying a knife, depending on where you are.
In this case the size of your knife would not matter.

Think of other ways aswell, or reasons to have a knife, if you're caught you'll need to to do some fast talking to get away scott free.
Is it worth it?
To me it is.
To you??? Maybe!

Good luck, stay safe.
 
With any weapon, if you carry one you have a choice as to whether or not you deploy it but if you don't carry one then you're left with no choice . As for any extra time spent making the choice, years of training can shorten the time significantly, and you don't have to deploy it, but you have atleast given yourself options.
 
I like that, well said.
 
Emanuel said:
Ok, ok, I'm awake now.:)

I live in NZ, but live ruraly, so your mileage may vary.

My opinion is to carry, get training, and stay out of sight from LEO's as much as possible.

First thing is first though, there is no 3.25 inch legal limit on blades here. You need a good reason to carry any blade of any length. And self-defense is not accepted in our Dodo bird anti-self-defense society.
You might get away with a SAK, but the Spydie Military will get you in trouble if you're caught with it, and you can't come up with a GOOD reason to have it.

On the other hand, how many times are you searched by cops? I guess it depends whether you live downtown Auckland or not and if it's Sat night, but still, I've always carried and have never had any trouble even on Sat night in Auckland.

NZ is becoming a dangerous place, as the recent various publicised attacks prove. Guns, knives, hammers to the head(like my neighbour), we get it all and plenty of it.
Criminals are emboldened by the fact people are unnarmed and defenseless. (except for some farmers!)
Not to mention the criminals strung up on P, you need to cut their heads off before they stop trying to kill you.

If your attacker has a gun, then what? You're probably dead anyway.
If he has a knife or other weapon, you're in better shape with a knife than without one. Contrary to popular belief, Dodo bird tactics like screaming like a girl and running away don't usually stop an attacker. I'll take my chances fighting back with a knife.
ANd if he has no weapon you shouldn't be taking out you knife anyway. Unless you're outnumbered and in serious life-threatening danger.
Sure regardless, by mere surviving you might be arrested. Atleast you'll be alive.
We can go through all the What if's you want. All I know is that I'm better armed and thus have a better chance to survive an attack WITH my knife, then without it.
I am determined not to be one of the Dodo birds around here in NZ. If that means carrying a blade and risking getting caught, so be it.

If you feel uncomfortable carrying a weapon, then don't.
WHo knows, you might even be one of the lucky people here in NZ that will never be attacked.
As for me, I'm not taking that chance!

What I'm saying is, it's a personal choice for you to carry or not. Your the only one that can answer your question of whether to carry a blade.

Here's a tip though. Carry a blade, and also some fishing equipment. If you're caught by a cop you now have a good reason to be carrying a knife, depending on where you are.
In this case the size of your knife would not matter.

Think of other ways aswell, or reasons to have a knife, if you're caught you'll need to to do some fast talking to get away scott free.
Is it worth it?
To me it is.
To you??? Maybe!

Good luck, stay safe.
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Thanks for the response. No 3.25" limit? Interesting. Must have been misinformed. Might start digging through weapons legislation after my exams are over.

I think your reasoning wins out. I've got a lot of sympathy for the "better to have and not use" line of thinking.

Thanks, guys.
 
Here it is, I've had it in my archives for a long time:

Crimes Act 1961

13A. Possession of knives-

(1) Every person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding [[$2,000]] who, in any public place, without reasonable excuse, has any knife in his or her possession.
[[(2) On convicting any person of an offence against subsection (1) of this section, the Court may order that the knife be forfeited to the Crown.]] ]
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Oh yeah, and again, remember that "reasonable excuse" is NEVER self-defense. Don't ever say the words SD.
We don't believe in SD here in Dodo-bird-land.
 
Emanuel said:
Oh yeah, and again, remember that "reasonable excuse" is NEVER self-defense. Don't ever say the words SD.
We don't believe in SD here in Dodo-bird-land.
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Hmm. Most unfortunate, really, that the stigma against self-defense is probably a function of denying that we live in a potentially violent society. Only paranoid people are worried about self-defense because NZ is a land of butterflies...
 
True, well said.
 
Before we start please forgive my terrible spelling.
I have noticed that many people sometimes turn themselves into the perfect victum. They leave their car door open in a dark isolated parking lot, (while sitting inside the car). The same person is not aware of anyone or anything going on around them. Many times I see ladies leave their purses un-attended in a shopping cart. standing in a wall-mart with their wallet being loosely held in their hand. ( Not trying to pick on you ladies, just being honest.)

I am a correctional officer in a texas prison. I see the inmates on a daily basis. They are always keeping themselves in excellant physical shape. I have seen some brutal attacks between the inmates. They use the element of supprise to their advantage. I have seen an inmate almost killed by being sliced in the neck with a blade from a dispossible razor. Pepper spray is used and sometimes the inmates have a built up resistance to even the strongest ones. No one weapon or tool is a sure 100 % fail proof. please forgive my rambling on
 
While no weapon is sure to be 100% fail-proof, with no weapon you are nearly certain to fail 100% of the time. It gives you an option that might or might not give you the edge to beat your attacker, but then again any fight is a risk anyway regardless of the weapon you have.
====================

Esav,
Despite my scary tattoos I'm as harmless as my little pitbull.:)
(nevermind my evil grin)
 
Carry a knife because it is a useful tool. Use any tool at your disposal to protect your life.
 
This thread has made me think a lot. Today I'm starting the process to get my CCW permit.
 
Well, I disagree with several points here...let's see...

As mentioned previously, practice and training will reduce your draw time and reaction time, even if you are over 50 and facing a couple of young punks. Sucky situation? Yup. But unbeatable? Nope.

The walking stick will probably need justification as well. Personally, my scholiosis makes for a rather good argument.

Someone mentioned that they don't think of knives as lethal. :eek: :eek: :eek: Well, I'll just say that I disagree strongly with you on that one. True, knife attacks often aren't lethal, but most people don't know how to use a knife; i.e. they stab people in the gut. That's a) not how you kill someone with a knife, although I will admit that it may be lethal, and b) that's not how you stop someone with a knife. Severing tendons or muscle groups and attacking large nerve bundles is how you shut someone down immediately with a knife. Bicep, tricep, tendons in forearm/wrist, quadracep, tendons on back of knee and scyiatic (spelling?) nerve on back of leg. Those are some of the targets that stop someone on the spot. Severing the carotid artery or piercing the heart will indeed be lethal, but they won't kill for several seconds at least, not quick enough when you're dancing around with another fellow.

Also--you shouldn't be using your knife unless you are in fear for your life. This could mean he's got a gun, a club, a knife, scissors, a screwdriver, he's HUGE, or he's got several friends. Those could all warrant lethal force. But, a knife doesn't have to kill. All those targets I listed will incapacitate, not kill. And as far as gun vs. knife, well, if he's 20 feet away and his gun is in his hand, then no, a knife is not a good choice, running to close cover or doing what he wants would be a good idea. But up close...that's another story.

Just my $.02.

-Matt
 
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