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To fold or not to fold....

Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
17,529
I see a lot of folding knives used for outdoor activities like camping, fishing, and even hunting. The modern one hand folder seems to have made a v ery large inroad in the knife field.

Okay, I admit I'm an old fart, but in my younger day, I never saw a folding knife used for much outdoors stuff. Sure all men back in the 1940's and 50's had a pocket knife if they had pants on, but they just used a pocket knife for things like opening mail, cutting a piece of twine, or a package opener. In those days all packages were held together with twine. Most common knife was some little two blade pen knife.

When it came to camping, hunting, or just about anything outdoors, the most common knife seen on a person was a sheath knife. They were called sheath knives in those days, the term fixed blade wasn't around. But then all handguns were called pistols, as in 'old Joe was a sharp shootin pistolaro'.

Where I grew up down on the eastern shore of Maryland, just about every man who didn't work in an office in town, was a waterman or farmer, and they all hunted and fished. And they all had a well seasoned little leather handle Case or other brand little Finn style of knife on their belt all the time as they went about their everyday life. Nobody looked twice as it was so normal.

The most common knife I remember seeing around hunting or fishing camps were the stacked leather handles, like on Case little Finn's, also made by Ka-bar, Western, and a few others. Blades ran about 3 inches to about 4 inches. In the late 50's one started to see those German imports from Edge-brand with one piece stag handles. I guess the sheath knife was easy to keep clean, just swished around in a creek or lake and then wiped on pants leg or bandana.

I wonder if for the purpose of possible survival, does the folding knife have anything going for it at all? I mean exept for being able to fit in a pocket. It's a weak design by the nature of the best, it's prone to being messed up by dirt in the action, and it's a PITA to keep clean.

I wonder if the Scandinavians have the right idea, and use a sheath knife like their puuko's for everything. Need a pocket knife, use a small puuko that fits in a pocket.

Last winter I had to have my left thumb operated on for a tendon problem, and for a few months I couldn't use my sak's too well, not to mention any of my other regular pocket knives. I took to using a Buck Hartsook for just about everything, or a Mike Miller custom pocket fixed blade. When my hand healed up, I tried to go back to a regular pocket knife, but soon went back to a pocket fixed blade. Easier to use, and no hinge to worry about. Just pull out and use. Wipe it off to clean it. Got real used to the no fuss pocket fixed blade. Now I've got to the point where the only use I have for a folding knife is for a small pen knife size sak on my keychain to open mail, and other light duty jobs. With a small puuko or other fixed blade in my pocket, I feel if there is an emergency, I have a better knife right from the start.

For the subject of survival, does a folding knife have any place at all in the scheme of things?

Expounding on that question, does any folding knife, aside from the most modest pen knife for 'polite company', have any real use at all when compared with the sheer utility of something like a Brusleto Rognald or Baldor?

I guess thanks to the aging thing and some hand problems, I've got to the point where I question why bother with any knife that folds?
 
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Great post jacknife. Aside from a the venerable SAK which I love for all its little tools, but rarely use for its blade, I really could never find love for a folding knife. I even tried to fit in with the crowd and went bought some good folders, like a spyderco military. I just could never really get to love them like I can a fixed blade. They seem fun for about 3 minutes to flip open and I can see why engineer/gidget guys go gaga for the engineering in them. But I don't.

Like yourself, I carry daily a pocket fixed blade. Most of the blades I carry are designated as neck knives, although I rarely carry by that mode (it does have its uses but I only use it on very specific occasions like sitting in a boat or with hip waders on). A well designed pocket sheath will let you reach in and grab your fixed blade from your pocket without removal of the sheath. In essence, one hand, rapid operation. Mind you, you often need two hands to re-sheath it inside the pocket, but the point is access to the knife is rapid.

The need to nest the blade in the handle of a folder invariably means that the ergos of the handle for using the knife are compromised. A folding knife handle is never as comfortable as a decent fixed blade handle. Maybe my problem is that I started with a fixed pocket blade first and then tried to move to a folder. It didn't take too long for me to revert back to the fixed blade carry.

One unique area or niche that folders have captured is the thin steel, ultra sharp point market. Many fixed blades are designed with toughness as part of their intended function. Having a small 3/32" or 1/16" thick little fixed blade with ultra sharp point would be a unique niche, albeit, lacking some of the functionality the more common robust neckers have.
 
Nice post, jackknife. It's always great to hear about how things were done back in the day.

I won't pass judgement on anyone else's approach, but I'm definitely a 'fixed blade only' guy at the moment. My EDC pocket knife is a short scandi in a leather pouch sheath, and I carry a larger belt knife when I'm in the woods (though it does have a multitool in the side pouch - mostly for the pliers, saw, and screwdrivers).

Sept52009050.jpg


There are a few reasons I prefer fixed blades for outdoors activities. The knowledge that it won't fold in half on me is one. Ease of cleaning and overall simplicity also count. Also, you can use the spine of a fixed blade to strike a fire-steel or scrape wood - tasks that would be a bit risky with many folders.

From a survival standpoint, any knife is obviously better than none, and Anthony Hopkins certainly gave a good showing with his folder in 'The Edge'. But for survival fire-starting and shelter-building, I think that fixed blades simply have more reliability.

Finally, there's the matter of customizability - comparatively speaking, there are just more custom makers out there who specialize in fixed blades for the outdoors market. 'Locally', we have a bunch of makers who really jump into the W&SS culture, and make fixed blade knives with this demographic in mind. It would be neat to see a W&SS-oriented folder maker - perhaps that would make me re-think my fixed blade policy!

All the best,

- Mike
 
I think a lot of personal experience is also geographical. My Dad, "Grand" or "Great" Uncle, whichever the hell Karl was, and my Granddad were all from Western Pennsylvania. Dad was a transplant down here. He carried a fixed blade, as you rightly referred to it as, a sheath knife, when he was deer hunting. When he cleaned fish, he didn't fillet them, didn't use a fixed blade, used a folder for small game and fish. Used it for a lot of other, outdoors tasks as well.

They were all in love with Case folders and used them for everything. They are a pain to keep clean...Karl, my Granddad's brother, used to have a real problem with MOLD and/or VERDIGRIS in his Case knives...leaving a nice green smear on sharp cheddar blocks he was cutting up for us. NASTY! It didn't kill him...which is amazing. Didn't even give me the scoots...but it should have. :)

I think you make a lot of very valid points but I really think it is geographical and, in any event, it's just what people find value in really. Before I was in love with the RAT Izula and later on, the H.E.S.T., I loved the Becker 11, the Necker. Excellent knives all. If people prefer fixed blades, I think that's great. It's when people start proclaiming that if you carry a folder, you are doomed, you're not going to make it, Nostradamus says the world will end...you get the idea. :D
 
My Grandfather wore overalls which do not use a belt. Never saw him with a sheath knife. He would carry a stockman folder, and I have no idea how many he wore out. A sharp butcher knife and small axe were always in his truck. When he needed them he would return to the truck to get them. I am too "lazy" for that extra walking so I started carrying a sheath knife!!!! LOL
 
I like folders for thier compactness. I would carry a small fix blade if it were legal in the cities. I EDCed a mora clipper in my jacket pocket a few times back in Texas.
 
For me, folding knives are only to prevent scaring the sheeple; for being polite or discrete and enabling me to have a knife with me all the time.

But think about that: all the time. So, because the folding knife allows me to have a knife with me all the time, it is unlikely I'll ever get into a survival situation without a knife. I guess you could say that puts folding knives solidly into the survival scheme of things!

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
Great post Jackknife!
But, aren't you the one who posts all those great stories that talk about how you scout leader taught you to do everything with your folding knife? And how much can be done with just a small peanut?

I agree, I would much rather have a fixed blade in the outdoors and God forbid a survival situation, but I still think with proper technique a person could survive just fine with just a slipjoint folder.
 
I never thought much about folders at all until the knife that really changed my habits came along. That knife of course was the Buck 110. I was doing hunting and fishing guide work at the time and we as a family camped out almost every week end that the weather was fit to do so. Back then, for ten years, I used NOTHING but the new Buck 110. It did everything that I could ask of any knife including fixed blades. It would still do it today and it would not bother me to take on any outdoor challenge with the Buck 110. Now days, there are many quality folders that will do the work of a fixed blade if even a little common sense is used. A Strong folder and a fillet knife would do anything I needed to do.

Of course I love fixed blades too but I would never, ever, ever really need one strength wise.
 
i like my brkt drifter for use in town but i wouldnt be caught dead in the woods without a fixed

that being said i like having a sak/leatherman on me too
 
For me, a folder was my first, and only, knife for quite some time. 90% of things I need a knife for the folder (non-locking) works just as good so its not a problem. I think its a comfort thing of what you're used to, and if you can't carry fixed blade, you get used to a folder. If I had an axe and a SAK a wouldn't miss the fixed blade much. But since I can carry a FB in the woods, I do. Which do I prefer? If I could take a sheath knife everywhere, the sheath knife would win. Better, but not necessary (most of the time).
 
For me, folding knives are only to prevent scaring the sheeple; for being polite or discrete and enabling me to have a knife with me all the time.

But think about that: all the time. So, because the folding knife allows me to have a knife with me all the time, it is unlikely I'll ever get into a survival situation without a knife. I guess you could say that puts folding knives solidly into the survival scheme of things!

Stay sharp,
desmobob

100% :thumbup:

Doc
 
I love folders for the fact that they give me a lot of capability in urban and even office environment, where I work. And if I go outdoors (which I do quite frequently) I always have one on me.
But once you KNOW for a fact you'll be using a knife, there is every reason to bring a fixed blade, and none to leave it at home. To me, a folder is a compromise, between the need to have a knife and the need to keep it small, concealed even. Once that last need is gone, why use a folder for anything? Why compromise?
 
I don't think it's an either/or situation. I carry a little slipjoint, as Jackknife said, "anytime I have my pants on." Around here, we're limited in what we can legally carry. Plus, they (so far) don't object to my little pen knife even when I have to go to the VA hospital.

When I go to the bush, though, it's a different story. Then I have my fixed blade, a Buck 112, and my little slippie on me at all times. That's aside from whatever other steel toys I might be bringing along.
 
To me, a folder is a compromise, between the need to have a knife and the need to keep it small, concealed even. Once that last need is gone, why use a folder for anything? Why compromise?


A question I have been asking myself since last winter.:D
 
Folding knives have their own role and value as folding bikes have.
For me, a word "knife" means a knife with it's sheath, as well as a word
"bike" does not mean a folding one.
 
I havent used a folder in awhile.... Mostly a SAK multi, and a pocket fixed blade for EDC....just not into em as much anymore. The Emerson A100 is the only one Ive really liked in a long time....I need to get another one at some point, but am not too worried bout it.
 
Great post Jackknife!
But, aren't you the one who posts all those great stories that talk about how you scout leader taught you to do everything with your folding knife? And how much can be done with just a small peanut?

Indeed yes, and I was the fan of the traditional pocket knife for most of my life. Stockmen, peanuts, I loved them. Still do. To me nothing is as easy on the eye as nice jigged bone or stag on a traditional jack. But it took a hand operation, and having one hand out of action to make me have an awakening of an idea, or a concept. Once my hand healed up from the operation, and I went back to carrying a regular folder in my pocket, the folder was a PITA to me. I had gotten so used to the concept of the neck knife and pocket fixed blade, that I looked at my pocket knives with a harder eye than I ever had before. I had become so used to just taking the knife out and using, then just sticking it back in the sheath that I went back to carrying a pocket fixed blade full time. I had been subverted.:o

Add in age factors of ostio arthritis in the hands, and not having to open a knife, and the little pocket fixed blade gets very attractive to this old fart. When even the half stops on a Case peanut bother you on a damp day, it may be time for a change.

Hmmm, this may kind of like the tree falling in the forrest thing. If I had not developed arthritis in my 60's, would I ever have gone the pocket fixed blade route?

But then in a survival situation, you just may have a hand out of action, or your hands may be numb from cold. Something to think about.

I had a little worry about if I had to cut something in public, the Peoples Republik Of Maryland is not very knife friendly. But a very strange thing happened; I started out using the little Hartsook in public, and more than a few women who saw it, remarked what a cute little knife it was and where can they get one for their purse? Nobody who saw it felt threatened, and most wanted one. Same thing when I used the Mike Miller pocket fixed blade with the girraffe bone handles and mosaic pins. I've been carrying the Miller knife since Brett gave it to me, and it's been way more handy than a folder, stronger built with a full tang, and with the 2 1/8 inch blade is small enough that it fits right in a side pocket of my pants. Very flat and out of sight. It's small enough to have on me all the time, and if something goes wrong, I like the idea of having a full tang little fixed blade in my pocket. It fits in even casual Dockers easy.

I can only hope Mr. Van would understand, as they didn't have things like we have today back then. If he's looking down, I'm still getting it all done with a knife about the size of our scout knives!:D
 
I decided to elaborate on my previous post. I love folders! Of course, I also love fixed blades. Like desmobob, if I whipped out a fixed blade, no matter how small it is, while I'm at a customer's, I would be getting to know the local S.W.A.T. team, and while I'm sure they're all nice fellows, I'd just as soon pass.

The last couple of folders I purchased were bought with the thought that if I finished work early, and decided to hit the trail, I wanted something sturdy enough to harvest a few arrow shafts, make a fire board or whittle a trap or two.

With this in mind, I bought a Buck Alpha Dorado. What a great little knife this is. And since posts are useless without pictures -
ForPhotobucket1.jpg


Pretty sturdy, very comfortable in the hand, much more so that most little neck knives I've handled, and more than adequate to perform aforementioned tasks, with one exception. I found it to be a bit short for trimming some fire boards. Nonetheless, I liked it so much I bought a second one (one in 420HC and one in 154CM) - glad I did because my local retailer (LeBaron) no longer carries them.

So I still had the fireboard issue to address, so when I saw that there were still some Spyerco Manix' (which by all reports was a tank) available (at the time), I bit the bullet, sprayed my Visa with antibiotics and sent it into the fray. Result - near mortally wounded charge card but shiny new Manix :D

Manixandfeather.jpg


Yes, it is a tank. So now I EDC both the Manix and one or the other of the Buck Alpha Dorados (don't think I'd want to whip out the Manix in a customer's home. :o ) , and they are up to the task for anything I use them for.

Would I feel underknifed with these in a survival situation? Perhaps a little, but with a bit of ingenuity the problems could be overcome.

Having said that, like previous posts, if I knew ahead of time that I was heading out for the bush, I would also have one of my Bravos and my Machax.

Like Anita Bryant said, "A day without many knives, is like a day without sunshine!" At least I think that's what she said. :confused:

Doc
 
One thing that tactical folders have that fixed blades don't is one handed "un-sheathing" and "re-sheathing" without the need to look away from the work. When I carried my Grip I would reach down pull it from the pocket, do my cut and put it back without looking down all one handed. You can't really do that with a fixed blade so well. You might stab yourself in the side. That being said I do prefer simple things which is why I just gave away all my folders short of my SAK. I would love to carry a small fixed and am working on a design to have made but I've yet to see a carry system that's as simple as a folder.
 
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