To fold or not to fold....

[philwar]

Folding knives have their own role and value as folding bikes have.

Well that's a good analogy I think. Folding bikes are very handy if you need to take it on other means of transportation as well, or have no place to store it. But I don't think many people would use a folding bike if they traveled straight from A to B and had a safe place to put it.
A folding bike is a compromise, in other words. A very handy and useful one. But you wouldn't want to ride the Tour de France with it.

 

[stingray4540]

Indeed yes, and I was the fan of the traditional pocket knife for most of my life. Stockmen, peanuts, I loved them. Still do. To me nothing is as easy on the eye as nice jigged bone or stag on a traditional jack. But it took a hand operation, and having one hand out of action to make me have an awakening of an idea, or a concept. Once my hand healed up from the operation, and I went back to carrying a regular folder in my pocket, the folder was a PITA to me. I had gotten so used to the concept of the neck knife and pocket fixed blade, that I looked at my pocket knives with a harder eye than I ever had before. I had become so used to just taking the knife out and using, then just sticking it back in the sheath that I went back to carrying a pocket fixed blade full time. I had been subverted.

Add in age factors of ostio arthritis in the hands, and not having to open a knife, and the little pocket fixed blade gets very attractive to this old fart. When even the half stops on a Case peanut bother you on a damp day, it may be time for a change.

Hmmm, this may kind of like the tree falling in the forrest thing. If I had not developed arthritis in my 60's, would I ever have gone the pocket fixed blade route?

But then in a survival situation, you just may have a hand out of action, or your hands may be numb from cold. Something to think about.

I had a little worry about if I had to cut something in public, the Peoples Republik Of Maryland is not very knife friendly. But a very strange thing happened; I started out using the little Hartsook in public, and more than a few women who saw it, remarked what a cute little knife it was and where can they get one for their purse? Nobody who saw it felt threatened, and most wanted one. Same thing when I used the Mike Miller pocket fixed blade with the girraffe bone handles and mosaic pins. I've been carrying the Miller knife since Brett gave it to me, and it's been way more handy than a folder, stronger built with a full tang, and with the 2 1/8 inch blade is small enough that it fits right in a side pocket of my pants. Very flat and out of sight. It's small enough to have on me all the time, and if something goes wrong, I like the idea of having a full tang little fixed blade in my pocket. It fits in even casual Dockers easy.

I can only hope Mr. Van would understand, as they didn't have things like we have today back then. If he's looking down, I'm still getting it all done with a knife about the size of our scout knives!

Ha, ok, glad to see you haven't turned your back on the slipjoint completely.

I totally agree with all of your points though. A fixed blade is just more simple to use, carry, draw, etc. In fact I've always wanted a nice neck knife, some of them are so elegant. But, unfortunately I live in the communist wanna be state of California, all fixed blades have to be exposed.:jerkit:

 

[MrCoffee]

This is a great thread! Made me stop and think a bit about the subject more then I would have expected. Back when I was outdoors more then under a roof, I carried a number of different blades, but most of the time I used a 108mm GAK/SAK for my woods/camp chores. Time went by, I got older and started hearing everyone say that a fixed blade is a must have in the woods so I started always using a fixed blade of one sort or another. But for a lot of stuff, I still liked my small slip joints. It was just easy and what I had used for years. Never really gave it a lot of thought.

Of course, these days I prefer a fixed blade when in the woods, and for a long time I carried a Scott Gossman PSK everywhere I went. Or my Izula. But the truth of the matter is, I have a leatherman, a SAK, and a Kershaw folder on me all the time, and I never really use the fixed blades, and the few times I have at work, it has not gone over well. On a daily basis I use folders all the time. I guess I really am comfortable with the idea of a folder as my only knife, but like most people I would prefer to have a fixed blade. And I honestly think that in a true hands down survival scenario, you aren't going to care as long as you have a blade and it works.

 

[dipbait]

For me a pocket fixed blade is uncomfortable for an edc.I have one and cant use it like that. I carry a BUCK slimline as an edc. But when enjoying the outdoors such as canoeing and fishing , a fixed blade is always carried. Often, I only have one hand available to employ the knife.

 

[Rick Marchand]

For me, folding knives are only to prevent scaring the sheeple; for being polite or discrete and enabling me to have a knife with me all the time.

But think about that: all the time. So, because the folding knife allows me to have a knife with me all the time, it is unlikely I'll ever get into a survival situation without a knife. I guess you could say that puts folding knives solidly into the survival scheme of things!

Stay sharp,
desmobob

That sums it up for me too. I would much rather carry a fixed blade (to me, a folder is just a broken knife) but in this day and age.... you simply can't.... so a folder it is.


Rick

 

[J.Wade]

For me I prefer to carry a folder, Sak super tinker with a photon light clipped to it, lately . it's light, carry is pretty much non noticable for others aswell as myself,I have carried pocket fixed, belt fixed, shoulder rigs ect.
and always end up getting poked or having to take it out of my pocket or off my belt for comfort. In my daily living folder or not has never beeen an issuse, so comfort gets my vote.

I personally think that large folders are stupid, if your going to carry a 4-5inch blade make it fixed but for a 2-3 inch blade folding is OK,

besides right tool for the job is always the best, if I need a prybar I go get a prybar , if I need an ax I grab an ax.....

but for everyday , a simple little pocket knife dose everything I need it to, no different than when I carried a belt knife edc, only with out being called a "redneck"

cya
jimi

 

[Paul 883215]

For me it's folder 100% of the time.

I've recently bought a new Case Stockman and I love the fact that I can clean some gunk off my shoe with one blade, work all morning with another and still have a fresh blade to cut up my apple up for lunch. It also is very easy and comfortable to carry and will not "scare" any NKP out there. I would bring a larger knife with me if I were hiking in the woods (and a fixed blade would be perfect) but I would still have that folder with me just in case.

BTW Jackknife, I love your stories!

 

[VTguy]

One thing that tactical folders have that fixed blades don't is one handed "un-sheathing" and "re-sheathing" without the need to look away from the work. When I carried my Grip I would reach down pull it from the pocket, do my cut and put it back without looking down all one handed. You can't really do that with a fixed blade so well. You might stab yourself in the side. That being said I do prefer simple things which is why I just gave away all my folders short of my SAK. I would love to carry a small fixed and am working on a design to have made but I've yet to see a carry system that's as simple as a folder.

I wouldn't really call it a tactical folder but I carry a BM610 EVERYWHERE (and ZT200 & PE OHT as normal edc) The 610 of course has the axis lock and a 4.25" basically full flat grind on a S30V drop point. One of the things that I really love about this knive is its one handed open and closing:thumbup: We have basically no knife laws or concealed weapons laws as long as your not a felon. (when I am not at school I carry a .45)
I used to carry smaller knives but I have found that with a larger folder Iactually get a blade large anough to do most 99% of what I need to do (and do the rest in a pinch) and the larger & thicker handle (I also used to like thinner folders) is much more confortable than smaller knifes IMHO Also because I have become so accustom to larger blade sizes I find them easier to work with now even for delicate/detailed uses. (I can cape a squirrel in about 15 mins with my 610) I know many people around here like little folders and smaller fixed blades but I find I can get both with a larger folder.
Your point about easy one handed opening is a good one but you don't need a fixed blade to get it and folders like the 610 there are many also give you almost instant one handed closing.
I really like fixed blades but it's hard to justify to myself why I would need one...
all the same I've been rolling the idea of getteing a full flat grind nessie from Koster as a new edc for almost a year... I can almost guarantee it will happan eventually
Just a few thought about how we all do things differently with different tastes and preference just one of the things that makes life great!!

 

[Raymond1000]

Jackknife:

When I read your opening post my first reaction was, “Who are you, and where have you hidden the real Jackknife?” But it looks like you’re really you, so…

This has been my objection to all your wonderful stories about using a peanut or a Buck stockman or a Scout Knife to do everything. If I may divagate…

It’s similar to my objections to the Bushcraft crowd who insist that knife guards are only a waste of weight and cutting nimbleness. When everything is lovely and the goose hangs high, of course they are. In my kitchen—my well lit, warm, emergency-free kitchen—I use guard-less knives without hesitation. It’s safe as houses. But…Not everything happens in my kitchen.

If I’m out in the woods and things go bad—be it a sudden storm and hypothermia, or a broken bone and shock, or a concussion, or any of a dozen potential problems—I don’t want to add to my troubles when my hand slides down the handle of my guard-less knife and slices precious tendons and nerves. Not to mention all that blood and falling over. In an emergency I have plenty of problems already without adding self-inflicted ones.

In the same way, I’ve doubted the wisdom of depending on a slip joint for all occasions. If my arm is broken, or my hand is mangled, how the hell am I supposed to open a slip joint? That’s why, in addition to my beloved Jr. Stockman, I’ve carried a Ritter Grip for years. It’s not traditional. It’s not beautiful. It has that cheap feeling FERN handle. But that handle fits my hand, it contains a good useful blade, and…It can be opened and closed with one hand. Either hand.

That’s also why I’ve kept a small sheath knife in my coat pocket over the years.

What I’ve never considered is carrying a small fixed blade in my pants pocket. In no small part because I have plenty of emergency stuff in those pockets already as part of my EDC. But your post has inspired me to re-examine the question. Nowadays there are plenty of miniature knives that will fit unobtrusively in the pockets of a pair of jeans.

Can I make one work for me? I don’t know. It’s worth exploring though.

 

[jackknife]

Hey Raymond, yes it's really me.

Like I said in my OP, if I had not come down with tendon problems in my left hand, I probably would never have drifted out on this tangent. But having to use out of need a small fixed blade for several weeks in post operative time, and then going back to conventional pocket knives made me think and experiment.

During my recovery time while using the small fixed blades, I was struck not only by the convenience of the small fixed blade, but by the safety of having a blade that I know is not going to depend on some lock or spring. Then there was the issue of cleaning. No hidden areas to collect gunk. When I went back to carrying some of my favorite old pocket knives, I felt inconvenienced by them. Kind of a sea change at a late date, but there it is. It made me do a lot of thinking on the issue. Things may change from individual to individual, but for me at this stage of my life, I'm seeing why those old members of the liers circle back in Cambridge always had a little Finn on their belt. They may have been a bunch of poachers and reprobates, but they knew the outdoors and what worked.

I had got by with plain old pocket knives for most of my life, but life changes. I'm looking at yet another operation on my left hand to free up the tendon in the palm of my left hand that's pulling the middle finger down. So instead of having some stiches in the base of my thumb, there's going to be a line of stiches in my palm. Very inconvenient.

I find with the little Mike Miller knife, theres no way I can slip down on the blade. It's shaped like a little chef's knife, with the blade below the handle and a curve of steel that's the back of the blade acting a bit like a little guard.

Sometimes life deals us a bad card, and we have to deal with it. This hand tendon thing has made me look at everything in my outdoor emergency kit and small PSK's I have around, and seeing how well the contents will function if I was badly injured and had a hand out of action. That changes things a lot.

We have to adapt to changes and overcome to survive. Even if it means changing the way we've done things for 50 years or more. Heck, dinosaurs didn't change, and look what happened to them!

 

[Zaner01]

One reason people carried fixed blades in the 40s and 50s is that the Buck 110 hadn't happened yet.

Personally, I dislike slipjoints, both for safety and ease of opening. But I like locking folders -- as long as I can open them one-handed.

On this summer's canoe trip I carried my Grohmann #3 and a Buck Vantage Pro in my pocket. The Buck saw more use. It was simply more convenient to use. There's a tradeoff between the convenience of a folder and the additional strength and safety of a fixed blade.

 

[TheGame]

Folding knives will always have their place, in my opinion. However, hard use woods knife is not one of them. I like taking them in the woods, for smaller tasks, but I always have a fixed blade, no matter where I am. The folder is only used when and where I know it can handle what is being thrown at it.

 

[sodak]

I can see the sense of this, but pocket carry with a fixed blade seems uncomfortable. Which pocket do you use? Do you have a pic of the Mike Miller knife?

It's an interesting concept, though. For me, while I'd rather carry a stockman, 9 times out of 10, a SAK is in my pocket. They're just so darn handy. I admit their handiness comes from all the tools, not necessarily the blades.

Hmmm... I'll have to give this one more thought.

 

[Macclint]

I always carry a fixed blade, but the one that gets used most for simple cutting chores is the Spyderco Endura clipped in my shirt pocket. Easy to get to, easy to open one-handed, easy to clip back on the pocket.

My SAK Rucksack is in my PSK, but doesn't get used as much.

-Clint

 

[kgd]

One thing that tactical folders have that fixed blades don't is one handed "un-sheathing" and "re-sheathing" without the need to look away from the work.

True for a fixed blade held in the pocket, not so for a belted sheath. If you consider the time it takes to learn how to operate (open and re-close one handed), there is also a learning curve to re-sheathing your fixed blade on your belt without looking. It is awkward at first, not unlike finding the locking mechanism on a folder, but after awhile it becomes second nature. That is why folks who wear a sheath on their belt keep it in the same place all the time.

For me I prefer to carry a folder, Sak super tinker

What a horribly named product. Jimi, you can tinker with your super sak all you like

I find with the little Mike Miller knife, theres no way I can slip down on the blade. It's shaped like a little chef's knife, with the blade below the handle and a curve of steel that's the back of the blade acting a bit like a little guard.

I completely agree. I prefer not to have traditional guards, i.e. the kind of thing you find on a kabar, but I do like a good non-interfering integrated guard. More and more of my knives of choice (see the knife in my sig line) now have a dropped edge relative to the handle where the blade itself acts as a guard. The Izula is nicely designed with this feature also.

I can see the sense of this, but pocket carry with a fixed blade seems uncomfortable. Which pocket do you use? Do you have a pic of the Mike Miller knife?

I use my front, right pocket. I don't wear jeans. Never liked them and they are terrible in the outdoors compared to quick dry fabrics, both limiting mobility and for holding moisture. For civilization, I'm usually wearing a pair of khakis, cargo pants or semi-casual dress type pants. Now you can find good looking quick-dry fabrics that even work for these more casual situations.

The loose front pockets make small pocket knife carry a breeze. Even with the molded sheath of the Izula, you can slip your full hand into your pocket and pop the blade out with your thumb, without removing the sheath from your pocket. As noted above however, you usually need to look at what you are doing when re-sheathing a blade back into your pocket.

There are lots of comments about peoples reactions to fixed blades. I have never found anybody to have a bad reaction to a small/attractive fixed blade. Like Doc says, you are just as likely to have a bad reaction to a big, tactical looking folder like the Manix compared to folding versus fixed. Of course, that said, almost everybody recognizes a SAK as a friendly tool.

 

[Raymond1000]

I completely agree. I prefer not to have traditional guards, i.e. the kind of thing you find on a kabar, but I do like a good non-interfering integrated guard. More and more of my knives of choice (see the knife in my sig line) now have a dropped edge relative to the handle where the blade itself acts as a guard. The Izula is nicely designed with this feature also.

When I talk about a guard I don't limit it to traditional extended guards. If the handle is shaped so that it's hard for my hand to slide onto the blade, that's fine with me. The Bravo 1 is a good example. So are the Grohmann knives. It's stuff like the traditional Mora knife, with a straight shot from the grip to the cutting edge, that I won't carry.

 

[Alexipax]

I just finished reading Nessmuk's "Woodcraft and Camping" and note that he considered a small folder essential kit along with his fixed blade and pocket axe. It's clear that Nessmuk had nothing but distain for "outers" who carried too much stuff into the wilderness so there must be some set of tasks for that folder that he thought were essential. Unfortunately, he doesn't describe much of what tool he uses for each job - does anyone here know where the great-grand-daddy of ultralight trekking drew the line at using his fixed vs. folder?

Awesome thread, btw, thoroughly enjoying it!

 

[fujita yuji]

Most folder's handle are in square section and too thin to be used intensively.
The slit on the edge side of the handle is no good either.
The joint between blade and handle is sometimes hard to clean in the field.
Unfolding and folding is annoying.

Beside those things, most well-made folders work fine in the field.

 

[fishshooter]

I just finished reading Nessmuk's "Woodcraft and Camping" and note that he considered a small folder essential kit along with his fixed blade and pocket axe. It's clear that Nessmuk had nothing but distain for "outers" who carried too much stuff into the wilderness so there must be some set of tasks for that folder that he thought were essential. Unfortunately, he doesn't describe much of what tool he uses for each job - does anyone here know where the great-grand-daddy of ultralight trekking drew the line at using his fixed vs. folder?

Awesome thread, btw, thoroughly enjoying it!

He writes that he uses his fixed blade for skinning, cutting meat and eating with. He states it was very thin. I don't think it was near as important to him as his hatchet was. He does note that he keeps his pocket knife with his matchsafe.

 

[crbauhs]

I see where you are coming from jackknife. I understand what you mean with the convience of the fixed blade. I think, since you are already going down new roads, take a look at some of the newer knives that there are. I know you don't want to have to depend on a spring or a lock, but if you get a good one, it might as well be a fixed blade. That added to the fact that its foldable, pocket clip for easy access, and one handed seems like it would be EASIER than a fixed blade where you still have to put it back in your sheath. I'd say a nice frame lock, like the Buck 172, would be great for what you would need. And I would trust that knife in a heartbeat in a survival situation, especially in your shoes with everything you were taught as a kid and how to survive and make do with just a slipjoint.