To get a Buck fixed blade

I am able to repair the sheath, the cut is not that visible. I have started to make to mods to change it to horizontal carry.


HFinn,

The 102 was my go to knife before I "Got Into" knives. Now that I have draws full of knives. It is still one of, if not my favorite.

If your're looking for a leaf spring with an edge to beat through an eight inch round of mesquite. The Woodsman isn't the best choice. But for cutting and slicing it excels.



I stumbled on this thread late, or I would have told you. Don't stress too much about which one you bought first. Because you will most likely end up with more anyways.

I like the 105 too. A bit larger handle than the 102.



They handle most bushcraft tasks pretty well too,



And, if I do say so myself, they look mighty good doing it too,

Lostviking, in your opinion which one of the traditional Buck fixed blades is best for allround bushcraft use? Must be able to handle wood, batoning etc.
 
I'm not sure if batoning is a traditional thing. The "fathers" of modern bushcraft. (Kephart, Nessmuk, et-al) NEVER make mention in their writings of batoning. They recommended the use of a small axe or hatchet (could include a tomahawk) for that kind of work. Their fixed blades were of moderate size, and used mainly for cleaning game and food prep. For firesticks, tent pegs, etc. they used something like a Moose or Trapper pattern.
I may be "old school" in that I consider batoning knife abuse. In the 55 plus years I've carried a knife, I've never found the need to baton. Finesse is better than brute force, and easier on your knives. too. A beaver can and does fell a tree by "whittling" around it. No reason we can't do the same on a branch or what ever.
 
HFinn,

There are many camps on batoning. The never baton camp, the always baton camp, and many in between. The right answer is what works for you. But be fore warned. There are associated risks involved. Ecpecially with a knife like a Buck.

Most knives of this style have a built in stress riser at the guard. A sharp right angle coupled with a reduction in steel as the tang heads back towards the pommel. If the knife is going to break, it usually happens here.

If you baton, you run the risk of breaking your knife. Plain and simple.

Baton any knive long enough, and it will most likely break. Full tang, hidden tang, rat tang, it matters not. Eventually they will all break.

Certainly a 5/16 full tang will stretch that failure point way further down the road. But sooner or later metal fatigue will take its toll and the blade will fail. Perhaps not in your lifetime. But it will happen. This why you ocassionally see cracked axes.

On to your specific question. Which tradtional Buck would I baton with. The OFFICIAL answer is none. Some folks claim the 420 Steel from buck is too brittle to baton with. OK, maybe. I haven't found that to be the case. At least not yet.

Back to my Bucks. Personally, I don't beat the snot out of them. But I often do baton them. At least my 105 and 119s. I have seen videos of people batoning knives through logs with hatchets, hammers, and rocks. Don't do that. Get yourself a stick. Wood pounding metal into wood, has a way different harmonic signature then metal pounding metal into wood.

If you baton, use a wooden baton.

Next, don't try and baton a 6" 119 through a 5" piece of knotted hickory. You are inviting disaster. Be a little selective of the wood you choose to baton. Try and avoid gnarly knotted pieces.

Next, let the baton do the work. Yarning on the handle is also inviting disaster.

As for which traditional Buck I would recommend for your foray into batoning. I would suggest the 103 skinner. It has a subtle resemblence to Nessmuk's blade. It is also a little taller, giving it some added strength out front. But mostly beacuse its length will limit you as to the size of the wood you will try and baton. Think wrist sized stuff.

Also, I just find the 103 to be a very cool knife. Both in looks and performance.

Again, there are risks here. You could potentially break your knife. Here's the rub. If you do. Suck it up. Don't go crying to Buck with some lame story about how you were at camp, and your knife slid off a log and landed on some frozen moss and just snapped right in half. I have read to many of those stories. And I'm embarrased for the folks that write them.

Own up to it, and buy another Buck Knife just like the one you broke.

That being said, I have never broken and knife batoning. None. In fact, the only knife I have ever broken
was when I was a kid, practicing to be a Commando. Don't throw, your knife. If people think the harmonics of batoning are bad. They should see the harmonics of throwing.

I don't totally disagree with afishhunter. There are better tools for the job. I go in streaks. I'll baton for a while. Then move back to the axe, small knife set up. He speaks wise words. And to prove that. I never Baton my little 102. It was a gift from my wife many years ago. I don't want to see that one snap, because of its sentimental value.

The rest are fair game.

I'm not sure if I'm stupid or lucky. Most likely, some combination of both. I live in the extreme northen Adirondacks. I have batoned my blades through frozen wood in temps on the wrong side of munus 20 F. They are all still together. And other than normal dulling, I don't get rolls or chips either.

No matter what you choose to do. Like afishhunter, I recommend you acquire a small axe and a hand saw. Too valuable in the woods not to have. This Opinel #12 saw is agreat example of a nice compact saw. I actually have a belt sheath for it.


With a saw, you can slightly notch the top of a 4"-6" log and than take whatever knife you have with you and carve a wedge. Then pound away. You have nothing to lose. If you breal the wedge, make another one.

Here is a great example of a small knife, saw, hatchet, combination. Your 102 Woodsman would work well in this set up.


Sometimes, I head off into the woods with just a knife and a fire steel. It is amazing what you can accomplish with just a knife. But I also concede, there are more effecient wasy of going about it.

It really is hard to beat an Axe, knife, saw combo. And having redundant back ups is never a bad thing. In case you lose one. Or your knife really does fall off a log and break. I suppose it could happen. (Nah, Not Really)

Here is a link to some things I did with just a KA-BAR. It shows a good size wood to look for when batoning. Everything in there was done with the Dog's Head. Unless I specified otherwise.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ty-The-First-Thirty-Days?highlight=Dog's+head

Sorry for the long winded answer. But I felt it would be a disservice to just recommend a knife.
LV


Edited to add;
Not knowing what your skill level in the woods is. I hope I didn't insult you. I just tend to tey and be specific and speak to a wide variety of situations. If you have any other questions, ask away.
 
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I would be stupid to take offence at a good answer given with a friendly intent and load of knowledge. Thank you, LostViking.

Batoning is one end of what I had in mind, other kind's of bushcraft use ("whittling or carving down sticks or making fuzzy sticks to help making a fire etc.) on the other. Of course food prep, but the knife must be able to handle rough carving and whittling.
 
What a great thread about the dog's head! I enjoyed reading it immensely. I really must put this in my favourites because of all the usefull information it contains.
 
Pretty much any of Buck's 100 series from the 102 to the 120 will serve you well as a general purpose camp knife.

I used my 102 for years.

The brass trimmed one in the picture above is made out of 5160 carbon steel. Instead of the usual 420 stainless. 5160 should be a bit tougher, but you have the rust/patina issues to deal with. I'm not sure if the dealer who has the 5160 is a member here. And don't want to violate rules.

On a side note, the 103 is probably the best peanut butter knife of the bunch. You'll most likely end up with a few.
 
Buck company spokes people (Chuck Buck and others) have said in other venues that in order to achieve cutting performance with 420HC, they run it on the brittle side. So batonning isn't really in its performance lineup.

Personally, I've never batonned wood, but then I have mostly camped in the Southwest. If you do manage to find wood, it will be dry. So batonning is never necessary. In point of fact, I had never heard of batonning until I started hanging out on BF. Still seems kind of an odd concept to me.
 
Buck company spokes people (Chuck Buck and others) have said in other venues that in order to achieve cutting performance with 420HC, they run it on the brittle side. So batonning isn't really in its performance lineup.

Personally, I've never batonned wood, but then I have mostly camped in the Southwest. If you do manage to find wood, it will be dry. So batonning is never necessary. In point of fact, I had never heard of batonning until I started hanging out on BF. Still seems kind of an odd concept to me.

So I find out that I should maybe reconsider my specs for a bushcraft knife. I have batonned with my Roselli Big Hunter many times without really thinking about it. Maybe a small hatchet is what I really need.
 
So is batonning something traditional in Finland? I never heard of it here until I read Mors Kochanski's Bushcraft.
 
In colder climates, an axe is hard to beat.



Well, unless you're talking chainsaw. But that's another can of worms.


Something else to consider. You don't have to beat your knife through a 16"-20" log. A 6" piece of wood splits easier, makes for a simple fire lay, and works extremely well.



A nice, easy, low stress fire. Note the Twine and birch bark in the lower right hand corner, ready to take a spark.



As Knarfeng pointed out. A lot has to do with your location.

Around here finding dry wood can sometimes be a challenge. With snow on the ground from November through May. Anything on the ground is usually in need of some drying before it gets rocking and rolling. The under branches from Pines and hemlocks usually provide the starter heat.

In the winter time, standing dead stuff is the wood of choice. Spruce is about the best if you can find it. Partly because it's dry. But mostly because anything on the ground is buried under four feet of snow.
 
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I tend to equate batonning and bushcraft because I never heard of bushcraft in American English either until I read Kochanski's book.

As I recall, your Roseli hunter is pretty much what Kochanski would recommend. A blade about as long as your palm is wide, so you can control the point; a more or less straight back; and a scandi grind: parallel flats with a single bevel to the edge. (That came out wrong. I don't mean a chisel edge.)

And HFinn, please keep us posted on your sheath project.
 
I honestly had not heard of using a baton and a knife to process firewood until a few years ago when I started exploring a "one-tool" option whilst venturing out in the wilderness. As I am pretty certain my dad and grandpa would be horrified if they ever saw me using a knife to split wood versus an axe, I do think it is a modern technique, though I do not have the historical knowledge to say one way or another.

Perhaps brought on by the increased enthusiasm and interest in bushcraft in the last few years? It certainly has paved the way for an enormous lineup of knives to choose from, not only from a production level, but also the custom maker. It would also seem that using a baton is somewhat of a fad, at least when it comes to selecting a knife. One of the main questions I see a lot of when I research a specific model is, "Can I baton with it?".

Though the act itself is undoubtedly useful with the right knife, especially if you are venturing out with but a single tool, my own experience has lent itself to determining that nothing beats a good axe. I usually go out with an axe, 2 knives, a multitool, and a saw. It might be overkill to some, but I am a firm believer in having the right tool for the job and when I did experiment with just bringing one knife, I got intensely frustrated because though I could get by okay with various tasks, it simply came down to a tool that could perform the task, but never excel. (I hope that makes sense)

In regards to Buck knives in particular, I only have the 119, which I love. However, I would not dream of using a baton on it. I have knives made of tough tool steel that I could do that with if I wished, or better yet, an axe. The 119 is a perfect size for doing just about any other camp chore though and it does those jobs admirably.

I think it is also important to note what LostViking is saying:

Something else to consider. You don't have to beat your knife through a 16"-20" log. A 6" piece of wood splits easier, makes for a simple fire lay, and works extremely well.

It is all about appropriate technique.
 
So this conversation kind of piqued my curiosity. I mentioned not knowing the history of the batoning technique so I figured, why not do a bit of research?

It would appear that "batoning" as a label is somewhat of a recent creation. However the technique that said label is applied to, appears to be as old as the hills. Though very much useful in its intended purpose, it has still saturated the bushcraft pop culture in a sense and the success that a knife can achieve doing such a task has become the standard by which many, if not most fixed blade knives are measured by anymore.

It has been stated here in this thread a few times that region has a lot to do with the effectiveness of the technique. Batoning seems to be quite useful and favored in northern, wetter regions where it tends to be far more difficult in much dryer environments.

I am starting to realize that this might be derailing the intent of the original post so I apologize. I still would hesitate before batoning with my Buck 119, though I am sure it would probably hold up just fine if done in a intelligent and strategic manner...
 
By all means, lets continue. This is interesting. The Roselli big hunter is a small "leuku" blade with hunter handle. I have not measured it, but it is around 12 cm blade length.I might be able to find a picture of a bare blade to see how sturdy the tang is.

I wanted the Buck 102 to have a stylish, easily portable knife for food prep and light carving. So no batoning with that. This raised my interest in Buck knives in general. I now realized that those might not be the best choice for all round, hard-use bushcrafting.

The Saami people, reindeer herders, have used leuku knives for ages for their trade including chopping. I wonder if they used batoning technique. Anyway, the size and shape of the blade, grind included, did evolve to work in these conditions. So, a knife with these dimensions but a handle made to my taste should work. I like handle to have some kind of guard and a "pommel" to lock the hand and eliminate slipping.
 
I have always had a soft spot for the 119. I bought mine at Walmart nearly 20 years ago.

I'm not a big batonning fan. I see the appeal, but if I am using a knife of the buck design, I wouldn't risk it. Not that the buck 100 is weak. I just find it very stressful on the knife.
The knife I wail on splitting wood is a khukuri weighing 1.75 lbs and 1/2" thick at the spine. Probably won't be breaking that one.
 
I was unaware that Buck had fixed blades out in D2. Are there any others besides the 118, or is it the lone fixed in this steel? As far as I knew they were all 420hc. Learn something new each day.
Thanks, Neal
Ps-I guess I should've said I thought they were all 420hc except for a few specialty agreement lines, such as the one I mentioned previously. The 118 OH referred to seems to be much more widely available.
 
I was unaware that Buck had fixed blades out in D2. Are there any others besides the 118, or is it the lone fixed in this steel? As far as I knew they were all 420hc. Learn something new each day.
Thanks, Neal
Ps-I guess I should've said I thought they were all 420hc except for a few specialty agreement lines, such as the one I mentioned previously. The 118 OH referred to seems to be much more widely available.

I think at least some of the D2 knives are SFOs.

Buck makes some premium hunting knives in S30V as part of their standard lineup.
 
So far the sheath looks like this. Needs some finishing, but works well. The retention feels right and the sheath can be carried on both sides.

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WP_20161218_002_zpsxldgzjoa.jpg
 
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