To Go Light or To Go Prepared...That is the question

I don't go "ultralight" for the weight I go "basic" to challenge my skills.

The majority of my time in the woods is for a few hours at a time practicing my skills and just enjoying the outdoors.

The other portion is an overnighter in familiar area. A very small percentage is more than one night in the woods, this is something I hope to change in 2009.

I like to be prepared but at the same time I try to make things a challenge for myself.
 
I go camping with my wife and daughter and have found that if I want to keep going it had better be a pleasant experience for them. That means bring the kitchen sink if necessary to keep them happy.
 
I recently got a membership at Backpackinglight, which has been awesome. I've been here for too long, so nothing will ever take away my knives though! But their research and experience is great.
 
kamkazmoto said:
I go camping with my wife and daughter and have found that if I want to keep going it had better be a pleasant experience for them. That means bring the kitchen sink if necessary to keep them happy.
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Agreed, when others are along who don't have the same mental approach fun becomes the dominant factor, even if it means bringing more...
 
For those of you that do go light, I have a question.
Do any of you use a USGI poncho or tarp type set up? In thinking about my weight issue(boy that sounds like I'm a Jenny Craig failure, huh?) I began to wonder about a USGI poncho/liner combo to cover shelter, rain gear(not that we get more than 5-7 inches a year), sun shade, sleeping mat/bag all in one.

Are there better options for those who do go this route? There certainly seem to be more expensive options. Is the sil-nylon really worth 80 dollars, I mean that's roughly a 400% markup on the USGI poncho. To my untrained eye they look almost identical in function. Weight ofcourse is a factor in price though, I realize.

The only experience I have with the USGI were the few times I used it when I was enlisted, and back then I seemed to get a lot of condensation inside. I think we were issued older ponchos though. Different material maybe? Any feedback would be appreciated.


Gautier
 
The obvious problem with the poncho tarp is that if it's raining, you get wet when you set up your tarp. The hardcore ultralighters seem to have either accepted this or figured out a way around it.

On a trip to the Escalante, I brought only a poncho tarp. Raced down 1000 feet of slickrock as I saw a dark storm coming. Got to high ground in high winds, set up ponch tarp real low as first drops were falling, got under and hunkered down. It ended up blowing over, which was fortuitous because it was obvious I would've been soaked in wind-blown rain. Now I carry a tarptent, or a bigger tarp + raingear if I expect rain.

Poncho tarp seems like a good emergency solution in desert where rain is rare though... I do some backpacking in Anza-Borrego and Joshua Tree and just skip raingear. Probably could get away with that in the Mojave except in monsoon season too.
 
candlelight001 said:
The principle that I've been getting my head around lately is that going light IS going prepared. Lighter pack = less chance of twisted ankle, jump off unstable rock faster, cross stream better, climb with better balance, not to mention less fatigue over time.
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IMO, yes and no. I consider myself a "light" packer, but not ultralight, because there are certain things I will not sacrifice for weight savings. For instance, I can't get my head around not having a bombproof pack. I mean, the darn thing carries EVERYTHING else. If it goes buckles-up, there goes my outing. I also take a full-blown FAK.

candlelight001 said:
Just for the sake of conversation there's an interesting debate over on backpackinglight.com about the value of bringing any more knife than a razorblade on a backpacking trip. Some of the guys there are partisans of a small scissors as their only cutting tool. I have to say that while I always bring something Delica-sized at least, I rarely have an essential use for it, in large part because I rarely build fires when backpacking.
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I consider a knife to be much like a FAK. You may not need it every time, but a decent knife may save your posterior if you really need it, and is worth taking.
 
I am a minimalist. Too much gear just wont be carried. So I have figured out what I would really use and carry that. I lack most in shelter. An AMK heatsheet is all I carry.
 
candlelight001 said:
Just for the sake of conversation there's an interesting debate over on backpackinglight.com about the value of bringing any more knife than a razorblade on a backpacking trip. Some of the guys there are partisans of a small scissors as their only cutting tool. I have to say that while I always bring something Delica-sized at least, I rarely have an essential use for it, in large part because I rarely build fires when backpacking.
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While I'm an advocate of not bringing the kitchen sink along, I think the ultralight folks tend to take things a little too far. Honestly, I think those backpackers that don't think a real knife (not a razorblade or a pair of scissors) is worth bringing along are the kind of folks who think "backpacking" is "walking on a road or a well-maintained trail from one town/village to another, or climbing up a couple of steep rock faces right next to the biggest city in the state." That is to say, they don't go anywhere where any tools beyond shoes and something to eat and drink would be useful. I could be wrong here, of course, but all the ultralighters that I can recall right now fall into that category.

Now, I've always said that in most cases very few tools are necessarily needed - and a knife, useful as it is, is in most situations unnecessary. But when you actually backpack more than a couple of miles away from the nearest town or road, tools like knives become very useful indeed, and in some rare circumstances can be necessary and life saving. It's good to be able to do with minimal tools, but if you're going somewhere actually away from civilization, it is very unwise to not carry a real knife just because of its weight. There is a reason why a knife is one of the oldest tools made and used by humans.
 
I'm gravitating towards the lighter end of the spectrum in terms of tools for hiking, but still demand function:

SANY0002-14.jpg
 
I go heavy on dayhikes, pretty light on long trips. I'm too lazy to sort gear for every hike, so I keep my survival kit and first aid kits bagged up and just throw them in whenever I hike. 4 lbs for both. 4-5L of water(I mostly hike desert areas), food, extra clothing, an extra knife or two, some toys, and my daypack gets pretty heavy. I often hike alone, and almost always off-trail, so I like to be prepared. I'd guess 25 lb or so is a normal daypack for me. I almost never use the FAK, but it's non-negotiable. If I'm doing short hikes on populated trails, I've been known to leave everything but a knife(and shorts) at home but usually carry a small pack with water and a minimal FAK.

On long trips, I try to eliminate duplicated gear and usually hike with at least one friend, so I think a lot more about weight. Did a five day trip last year in cool weather with a 40lb starting load of which 10 lb was water, 12 lb was food, 6 lb was pack and 4 lb was survival and first aid kits. I didn't really feel that I sacrificed much comfort in camp. We hiked dawn to dark though, so camp pretty much consisted of eating and sleeping. I'm really looking forward to the new neo air mattress from thermarest. 2.5 inches thick and less than a pound. Now that sounds like luxury.

Gordon
 
I saw one quote on here that I absolutely agree with " Improvise, Adapt, Overcome", that being said I remember it's sister quote from my days in The Marine Corps "Pack Light, Freeze at night". So I guess I'll fall into the middle ground on this. I tend to like my military gear for hiking because once you get rid of the combat pack mentality it's actually really well thought out and practical. Get yourself a military first aid kit then use the empty bottles it comes with to store your firestarting materials and that's took care of, most of the time you will even have enough room for a day's worth of TP in there too. REI has a good example of a pocket survival kit that you can use for an idea of minimal necessities. Then for emergency food you can't beat an MRE. I like to put a little hole in the main bag to let the air out of it so it takes up a little extra room but I keep the bag because in an emergency you can use that plastic bag, with the matches provided, to start a fire. Plus you have a whole day's worth of food instead of just one meal. Next on the list of military surplus is the new(er) military sleeping system. Get all four peices and take the parts you need. For three season hikers you will probably not need the large sleeping bag ever use the small (silk) one and the waterproof liner and really pack them into the compression bag, you're good to go for shelter and warmth. If you want you can use the large (nylon) sleeping bag for a ground mat, just put it inside the waterproof under the silk bag you're sleeping in and it's pretty comfy. Plus the nylon bag will fit in the compression sack and take up a lot less room than a ground mat. Once caution though is to make sure you get the water treatment and treat your waterproof at least once every 6 months. Now all you need is a knife and water(the first aid kit has water treatment pills in it if there is a water source) and your bases are covered. Of course,as has been mentioned, if the wife/girlfriend is going all this goes out the window.

In the area of extra weight/ comfort gear, I can't get along without my entrenching tool and my canteen cup and pine cone stove. If you have ever been in the service you know the E-tool is actually a camp toilet. To quote a Lt Colonel I worked with "There is no animal on earth lower than a surface shi**er". The canteen cup and pinecone stove is the best way I have found for making just the right amount of coffee. I have found ( at walmart, of all places) these little coffee packs that are sealed filters with the coffee already in them. They are designed for the little 4 cup coffee makers but if you like military coffee they have just the right amount of grounds to float a horse shoe in a canteen cup of coffee. The pine cone stove ( in case anyone doesn't know) is a little peice of metal that the canteen cup sits in when it's in the canteen pouch, you take this thing out and turn it upside down and the canteen cup will sit right on top of it, put a pine cone in it and light it up and it'll boil water pretty quick. I ussually have a couple of finger sized sticks handy as well which you can stick right through the holes in the side of the stove in case the pine cone doesn't burn long enough.

Just my thoughts on the matter, maybe some of my suggestions will be helpful
David
 
Hey David (Echo4V),

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Any chance of a picture or two of the pine cone stove?

Also, if you can maybe use a few more paragraphs, it makes it easier to read.

Doc :D
 
I guess I fall into the prepared side of this. My biggest reason to go into the woods is to have fun so there is a critical point at which the weight, i'm carrying, starts to take the joy out of the walk. I would say I'd rather carry a heavy pack with all my comforts and toys in it as opposed to a super light pack that has nothing of joy in it for me at the end of the walk.

I can carry 30lbs on my back when i'm out for the day and that's all blades, axes, water and food. The weight never bothers me though because I know i'll be having a hell of a time doing stuff. Put 30lbs on my back and ask me to go shopping with the girlfriend for a couple of hours and it's a different kettle of fish.

I guess you have to ask yourself not what is the weight of this item and will it weigh me down? Rather how much comfort or joy will this item bring me and will that be more than the physical cost of carrying it?
 
No matter day hike, overnighter or multi-nighter, lighter is better. After 1st starting out and bringing all kinds of lb's I did not need or use, I started realizing what I could cut back. I think that it helps to go out and try differing configurations to seewhat works best for you and the environment you will be in. Fortunately around here in N GA, there is usually water and I carry my Katadyn Hiker so I can just pump it straight into my Platypus.

Of course my configuration will vary depending on weather and duration. I also try to multi-purpose as many things as possible.

This has worked nicely in the past.

Set up 2 blankets on the floor and put ALL things you are considering on taking on the 1st blanket.


Put ALL the things that you KNOW you would be a fool to go into the woods without into a seperate pile on the 2nd blanket.


With the remaining pile, decide which items you STRONGLY believe you NEED and put those in the pile on the 2nd blanket.

With the remainder, decide what you VERY STRONGLY WANT to bring and put that on the 2nd blanket. Go over these items carefully, this is where most of the wasted weight will be.

Take the remainder and weigh to see how much you have dropped and put it in the garage. :D

I then usually go back to the pile I plan on taking and see what I can multi-purpose and remove anything that I fell Iffy about. When backpacking, I'd much rather want it and not have it than have it and not want it. As I already stated, I already have everything I'd be a fool to go into the woods without and can survive indefinately with just that.

But there is no magic number. It is all about trial and error and error.

One thing I do believe in, even when trying to light, is a good pack with good support on the hips. Most UL packs do not even have a waist belt, which reduces the weight of course, but it puts all that weight and strain on your shoulders. A good pack with a hip belt will put 80% of the weight on your hips where it belongs. Take a decent hipped backpack and an UL w/out, fill both with 20 lbs and see which one feels better at the end of the day.
 
Doc-sorry about the paragraphs. I kinda got caught up in what I was typing and wasn't paying attention.

As for the picture, I don't have a picture of mine but here's a link to a ( an apparently newer style) of pinecone stove with a canteen cup sitting on it ready to cook. To store them you simply turn the stove over and slide the cup inside then slide them into the the canteen pouch.

http://www.brigadeqm.com/cgi-bin/ta...tx=Cooking Supplies&backto=/store/level3c.tam

David

Edited to add: the reason I say this is a newer style is that mine has round holes in the sides of the pinecone stove, where the sides of this one are solid with only the one cut out to add fuel and to light the fire.
 
I prefer to travel:

a.) With only what I need.
or
b.) With a ton of stuff so I will be comfortable.

I am not on the "Carry a few things you want to make some things more comfortable. It is either Really light, or extremely heavy.
 
I go heavy. I started by going light, and was caught short a couple of times. Since then, I bring what I might need, and am much more comfortable that way, not to mention I have much more peace of mind. I don't mind the extra weight, and consider it a good workout.

I've got nothing against ultra lighters, as long as they don't try to mooch off of me. They usually only try once... :D
 
I used to go "sort of" light. In the Army we had to carry all sorts of extra things like ammo pouches, helmets, weapons, etc., so we would limit the other things we carried whenever we could. Still, the other things were usually unbreakable and heavy.

When I was out hiking around on my own time, I used to carry a daypack that had all sorts of gear in it. I finally got smart and bought a smaller rig where it has a bladder and two pockets. Now I have to be careful with what I pack or else it won't fit!

I've looked over the equipment for the ultralight fad and think that those guys should consider bringing sturdier stuff. I've been out far on a trail and seen people in souped up running clothes with just a water bottle and sunglasses and no pack. Yeah, I'll give them a hand if I find one sprawled out on the trail with a sprained ankle, but they are going to have to listen to me lecture them on the importance of being prepared for such an event.

:cool:
 
skammer said:
For 3 season hiking a 10-15lb pack including a couple quarts of water should be all you need. Any more and you are over packing in my opinion.

The further away from help you plan to travel the heavier the pack.

SOme good suggestions here.

The basics:

Shelter, Fire
Water
Signalling
Injury Treatment

Skam
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To add on to what Skam already said, I suggest thinking in terms of "what do I need to be reasonably comfortable should I have to spend the night out." If you can get some restfull sleep in addition to your basic needs, you got it made. So even if I go out for a day hike, I got a ponch/tarp and emergency bivvy to help me stay dry and warm (relatively) should I be spending the night out unexpectedly.
 
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