To Join??? Or not to Join????

F

Frontier Forge

Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
138
Good day folks..
Been on Blade Forum for years...
Ive also been forging, designing and selling knives to family and friends for years. Iam so grateful to all the makers who have take time to personally share there wealth of knowledge and skills to the forums as well as to me directly...Many thanks.......
I write the follow as just a quetion, and mean no disrespect to any one...

My question is about the ABS. I have not had great luck as a joiner. Whether it was membership in a local fishing club, shooting club, blacksmith association, or many others...I always feel like I have to conform, and I never seem to make any friends. And never seem to benefit fully from my membership...
I met a blacksmith a number of years ago, paid him a visit at his shop..Great guy, great shop, lots of cool tools...But he was an artist blacksmith and not vary impressed by knives, or damascus...So I figured this blacksmith group he was part of was like the rivalry between Farriers and Artist Blacksmith. Maybe this guy just figured that knifemaking and bladesmithing didnt require the same level of skill as his art form....
Several years passed, I have not been part of his organization for a few years, so I figured I would look him up online...
And now, he is an ABS Journeyman...Working toward his Master...Hmm thats odd....
So all this made me wonder if I had not gave memberships in groups a fair chance..
Does it really matter to my customers If Im am a certified Master Bladesmith.
Does having this title automatically make my knives better. looking, or perform better, or worth more money???
Perhaps my knives would pass the testing process.
Or maybe I would get laughed out of the ABS?
Who knows...
I dont like joining, just to join. I dont like spending money on a club if I dont make friends..
For myself I know I love knives, Ive gathered a wealth of knowledge from books, the web, forums such as this, instructional videos and hands on experience...Ive built and bought lots of equipment. And hey Ive sold a few knives to folks. And nothing makes me feel better than having a customer admire the fit,finish,functionality of the knife Ive created for them...
Do I need to have my work validated by an organization????
Im just not sure....I want more exposure for my knives. And would like to make and sell more knives???
I realize that just joining the ABS wont give me automatic success and happiness...
Im confused.....
Is it ok to be an outsider, Can a generic knife maker still be respected by the knife community without an ABS title???
May I have your thoughts??
Thanks...I hope I didnt ruffle any feathers???
 
I am always hesitant to join any organization that would have me as a member. I know where you're coming from, but as much as I don't care for the ABS, it could help your business to have that "master" title, and who knows, you may be able to walk on water after you get it. I have heard rumors that some can.
 
Hi Frontier Forge,

You sure raised a lot of questions, some of which seemingly contradict each other, but that's probably as a good inquiry should be. This topic comes up from time to time. It often ends up in a rather polarized discussion. Here are a couple links to previous threads.

Recommendation? Reasons to join the ABS
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607061

Ed Fowler (folks' opinions about ABS's Vision, etc)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696744

Over the years I have seen various reason folks join nonprofit groups.

  • For a learning resource
  • For community or fellowship
  • To support a cause
  • For professional gain
  • To be an antagonist
Good luck figuring our where your ilk and needs lie.

All the best, Phil
 
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I am not at this time a member. Times are tight, when they get better I will again join. I didn't join to become a JS or a MS. Many members have helped me to improve my craft. I attended a couple of ABS Hammer in's and gained knowledge that years later my brain is just starting to absorb. I am a member of the North Carolina Custom Knife-makers Guild. I have been for years. Recently I started to do demo's at the meetings. I realized that no organization is any greater than its members. How much you participate in that organization will determine what you get out of it. Will the JS and MS stamp make your knives better ? I don't know. It depends on the level you are at now. Will it make them more desirable? I would have to say yes. Just joining and sitting home is not going to do much for ya. I have received help from many ABS members. I do believe they would have helped if I had not been a member. As a matter of fact I don't think any ever ask. This is why I have been and will soon again be a member. I just hope that someday I can pass along the info that was so freely given to me. All in all it is an individual decision. Maybe you should ask only one question: What can I give to the ABS to help them promote the custom made knife.
 
Thanks for the input all.
I also had some one direct me to some older threads on this subject. One of which was 8 pages and another 15 pages. It seems that the matter is subject to alot of debate..There are some who are passionate in favor, and some passionate against...
I notice Tai Goo is against(for himself), while someone else called him out in regards to actually
being a member. As Ed said some people outgrow there need for the ABS.
I do agree that each member is very generous of there time, willing to share all that others have shared with them..And they do this freely with no expectation of getting your membership dollars. Others would argue that as a collective the ABS isnt all its craked up to be...
I am all in favor of corrective critisizm from my more experienced peers.. I wish it we possible to gather as a group. To meet new friends, learn something, share something...Kind of like the Northwest Blacksmith association.
Im not certain of this..But its too bad the ABS doesnt have regional chapters
The ABS school sounds great, whether or not you get a year knocked off for your JS stamp...But how many people live close enough or have the time or money to attend...Some ABS members and other makers have educational
opportunities..But those seem spendy also. A few years back I was fortunate enough to attend a Wayne Goddard workshop hosted by Don Kemper Sr of the NWBA. Ive admired the work of some other makers(members and not) but just cant afford to do it, unless they take my left arm and first born in lieu of cash...
I noticed Tai refers to himself as a Master Metalsmith, thats a good title, and you can see from his work he is skilled. And Ive read from his posts that he is educated.... I dont know that a "Title" is appropriate for everyone. I know in my shop I have already done the rope test, seems hard untill you do it. Ive cut a 2x4 in half twice, inspected the edge, shaved with it, and then clamped it in a vice to try to break it...
I know I have the skills to be a JS working toward MS..
Completing this test made me feel accomplished, while at the same time sick to my stomach because I wrecked a cool knife.. I finally had to throw it away because I felt bad for being a conformist without actually joining anything.
This much I know:
I love the art of knifemaking, its in my blood and has been there since I got my first pocket knife at 10 years old.
I know I need to get out more and make an effort to meet and hang out with other talented smiths.
I know I will continue to learn and grow as a smith and a person, I will continue to share the art of the forged knife with any one who wants to learn, and even some who dont what to hear about it...With or without...
Im still torn...
But will strive to keep an open mind, while making the craft continue to grow..
Thanks all
Lets make a point of meeting, having a beer, sharing stories and our mutual love the craft....CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.....best regards, Robert
 
Organizations swim and founder, some rise again others just fade away.
Like you said; join an organization for what you hope or feel you can do for it. If you join an organization for what you feel it can do for you, very slowly the organization will forge manacles that may or may not fit the goals you once held dear.

Make your knife, be true to yourself and those who share your emotion will come to you.
 
Titles and conformity seem to worry you a little. Maybe, square those thoughts away first before deciding if you want or don't want the membership. It'd only mean what you want it to mean to you.

Don't do it till you're certain, Craig
 
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