To What Degree Are You Directly Involved In Your Knifemaking ?

[JamesBro]

all myself, stock removal and air hardening heat treat only....started making sheaths before I started blade grinding.( cheaper tools)
James

 

[Grayzer86]

I dream up, design, and grind my own blades. I do my own HT on my 1084 but for other steels i will have to send away until i can get a kiln. I also just started doing my own sheaths but they are just kydex so thats far from being as impressive as you leather masters out there. All in all, so far nobody touches my knives from start to finish besides me, and maybe that shows sometimes. But i am working very hard to make sure each one raises the bar from the last one and that i am trying new things and improving my skills on each knife. I have made less than a dozen knives so far, so i also dont have nearly the production many of you have.

 

[AVigil]

That was well put, Joe. I admit that I used to be a "sole-authorship" snob. If you couldn't heat treat your own knives, I had a hard time accepting you as "legit" knife maker. It was a close-minded way of thinking. There are many more variables involved.

So when you thought that way what did you think of makers like Bob Loveless?

 

[james terrio]

I purchase steel, handle materials and pins/bolts. I occasionally have blanks WJ cut as a matter of efficiency. I grind and finish all my blades by hand, and assemble all finished knives myself. My wife and I work together on our leather sheaths; we share design work, I do the cutting and basic assembly, she saddle-stitches everything and I form 'em and finish 'em. In the rare instances that a client requests Kydex, that's farmed out - I'm not particularly enthralled with it and haven't yet taken the time to build one.

I outsource my HT to Peters' at this time, although I do own a kiln and continue to study up on its proper use. When I can reliably match Peters' results, you'll start seeing blades HT'ed by me. Don't hold your breath

So when you thought that way what did you think of makers like Bob Loveless?

Excellent point. This is definitely not aimed at anyone in particular, but I've always been amused at the folks who seem to prefer that Joe Knifemaker HT a blade who-knows-how with who-knows-what equipment/technique than to have it done by a professional. To the contrary, I've found that having Peters' reputation for quality backing me up has won me more sales than it has cost me, by far.

 

[Hengelo_77]

I file and grind my blades but outsource the HT.
I don't have the set up to do HT and don't even want to think about sub zero quenching.
I can't see HT-ing I think that is one of the reasons I don't like the idea of doing it.
I have a hand full of carbon steel blades awaiting HT but something is holding me back.

I like the sheeth making as well. Where I work we make orthopaedic shoes. That gives me idea's, techniques and materials to make something a bit different.
(one mans trash is an other mans treasure)

 

[JCaswell]

That was well put, Joe. I admit that I used to be a "sole-authorship" snob. If you couldn't heat treat your own knives, I had a hard time accepting you as "legit" knife maker. It was a close-minded way of thinking. There are many more variables involved.

At this point, I can't see how I could outsource any part(aside from smelting the steel) of my process. Not because it can't be outsourced or shouldn't... but because I still enjoy and can afford to spend the time doing these things.

As a side note(and I know I have told you this before) I am not much of a folder guy and usually drawn toward natural materials.... but that EDX model of yours just sings to me, Joe. Great design:thumbup:

Thanks for the kind words, Rick! I really appreciate it.

I'm afraid I had you beat on my (very quiet) snobbery ... until the "EDC" folders in 2005, the universe of knife/swordmaking to me was sole-authorship pattern-welded stuff. Letting go of any aspect--even just using steel I didn't make--took some wrestling with pride/self-image.

In the end, I realized I enjoyed making tools more than one-of art pieces because tools get used, and that's gratifying. :thumbup:
After I made that discovery, the priority became delivering on design, quality and cost, and not so much the idea that a piece was valuable because I made it with basic hand tools, or whatever.
My "I carved every part from steel billet with my teeth" ego would just have to suck it up!

Of course, now I brought these more advanced (CNC) capabilities in house because:
1. Other people's schedules will kill you! :grumpy: ... and
2. There's a lot of nuance that's important to control especially when prototyping really different sort of stuff. You really can't go back and forth, refining a design/redesigning on the fly unless you own/control the essential tools, and deploying these tools for prototyping is much more involved than whipping a quick piece out by hand.

IMO, if it's waterjet blanking or double-disc grinding, or something else straight-forward, you just identify a few quality vendors and spend your time on the stuff only you can do.

(I still like doing one-of art stuff. It's just not my identity now and feels more like a hobby again.:thumbup::thumbup

 

[LX_Emergency]

Forge, grind, heat treat and make my own sheaths.

One day I'll get started on making my own Damascus....

 

[shane wink]

I do everything in house. I do mostly stock removal but thanks to some buddies I am also able to pattern weld my own steel as well as do some forging if a forged blade is requested. Till I can get my home forge up and going again having friends like that is a real blessing. I do all the heat treating but keep the number steels I work with small, 1084, 01 and 3v.

As for the sheaths I do make ALL the kydex ones but not the leather. I have not yet purchased any leather tools but will be doing so next year.

 

[sunshadow]

I do everything myself except for heat treating CPM154, that I send to Paul Bos. I regularly pattern weld my own Damascus, and have several times smelted my own steel, and I make my own sheaths as well.

-Page

 

[unky_gumbi]

I buy materials, steel, handle materials, leather, etc, and make those parts into a knife and sheath. I send my blades to Rob at Knife Maker for HT because I am not set up for it yet, and I like to know that the HT has been done properly, I look at that as a selling point. Someday I hope to do my own HT, but there is so much to learn about it. One of these days I will get my forge finished, find a good anvil in my price range, and get my elbows fixed so I can try forging, but until then I will just grind out my blades and dream of beating them out of the steel

 

[jonathan creason]

I forge, grind, and HT on my own. I try to know my limitations and stick to simple carbon steels, mainly Aldo's 1084 and have my process for that particular steel pretty well set. I also make my own sheaths, mostly simple pouch style ones. I've made a few rawhide, frontier style ones too which I really like doing.

 

[rustyrazor]

I am getting more and more away from 90% ownership. i have always sent my stainless out for HT, since i can't afford to buy a machine and would probably mess it up. up to this point in my endeavours, i have hacksawed out the blank from stock, ground by hand (no jigs ) and individually fit and finished everything by hand. well, due to orders getting super behind and wanting to get my blades in the hands of some more people to test em, i am now looking into ordering waterjet/PG steel and trying a new approach. It's just not feasable to do everything by hand... and it now seems like work, other than my hunters which are all one-offs, and all made with materials i've collected myself... whitetail deer, old military brass, strange wood.... whatever.

p.s. tried damascus once and knocked out my tooth... guess im not going for my MS anytime soon.

 

[Rick Marchand]

So when you thought that way what did you think of makers like Bob Loveless?

Bob who?

Excellent point. This is definitely not aimed at anyone in particular, but I've always been amused at the folks who seem to prefer that Joe Knifemaker HT a blade who-knows-how with who-knows-what equipment/technique than to have it done by a professional. To the contrary, I've found that having Peters' reputation for quality backing me up has won me more sales than it has cost me, by far.

That is just another way of thinking, bro... no better, no worse. My reasoning used to be that "handmade" didn't include handing over processes(That I felt were vital) for someone else to do. To me, heat treating was a HUGE hurdle and the one step that turned a sharpened piece of steel into a knife. If you couldn't make a knife from beginning to end by your own means, you weren't a knifemaker, by my definition. I really had no problem with makers who already knew how to heat treat, outsourcing it... but to have never done it, never intend to and downplay the efforts of those who would try... well, I guess I am not completely over that bit of disdain... but I'm working on it

 

[james terrio]

That is just another way of thinking, bro... no better, no worse.

I understand your point of view. What gets me is that no one cares much if a gunsmith knows how to make holsters, or if an engine builder knows how to paint cars. My point is that similarly, forging/grinding, HT and sheath-making are very distinct skillsets and each is worthy of respect in its own right. The many makers who are at the top of their field in all three areas have my utmost respect and admiration. :thumbup:

My amusement comes mostly from those who heat to cherry-red with a torch, quench in panther pee and claim to have the bestest sharpest knive EVAR! And it's not just the new guys with bed-spring steel either... some of these folks hold tables at prestigious shows and charge ridiculous prices for their work.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I understand your point of view. What gets me is that no one cares much if a gunsmith knows how to make holsters, or if an engine builder knows how to paint cars. My point is that similarly, forging/grinding, HT and sheath-making are very distinct skillsets and each is worthy of respect in its own right. The many makers who are at the top of their field in all three areas have my utmost respect and admiration. :thumbup:

Traditionally, the Japanese divided up every aspect of sword/weapons making into individual trades. I don't think there was anyone who did it all. But I am not that knowledgeable about the subject, either.

My amusement comes mostly from those who heat to cherry-red with a torch, quench in panther pee and claim to have the bestest sharpest knive EVAR! And it's not just the new guys with bed-spring steel either... some of these folks hold tables at prestigious shows and charge ridiculous prices for their work.

I hear you, man. There are some that I just cringe at.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

At one time or another, I have done all of the boxes, except smelting.

 

[Dave Behrens]

- Buy flat stock, pins/screws, handle material, sheath material
- Cut, profile, drill, grind blades
- Handle scales
- Finishing
- Sheath

I outsource all HT for now. I mostly use modern alloys such as 3V, Elmax, CPM steels etc which have more complicated HT, but I am learning how to HT myself, and eventually hope to do all of my own HT. I don't forge, I dabbled in it for a short while, but decided it's just not "me" right now.

 

[GarnetandBlack]

There needs to be an option that reads: "Daydreams of forging, cutting, profiling, grinding, HT.....but doesnt"

 

[Rick Marchand]

If I used modern stainless alloys, I would definitely outsource the HT.

 

[AVigil]

If I used modern stainless alloys, I would definitely outsource the HT.

Just imagine all the "real knifemakers" that would not consider you a "True Knifemaker" by doing that