To Wicked Edge or not?

[wvdavidr]

I was just thinking "Edge Pro Apex" and the optional polishing tapes (which eliminate the need for a strop).

 

[Sadden]

The edge pro is an excellent system.

However the polishing tapes are gimmicky and are cost ineffecient long term.

Buy a base model EPA or EPP and add a handfull of aftermarket stones and strops. It helps build some muscle memory , teaches you the basics and makes for an easier transition to freehand later on if you so choose. Buy the right set of aftermarket stones and if you decide to stick with the EP then you can easily build on that set.

So a base model EPA would pair well with a set like this

140 Atoma , Nubatama 150 , 1k , 4k and 8k.
140 Atoma Shapton (Pro) 220 , 1500 , 5k and 8k.
You could add a nanocloth or kangaroo strop with some 0.75u CBN to push things a little further if you felt so inclined.

 

[whp]

To me , the Wicked Edge has been the easiest system to use to get extremely sharp edges consistently. I haven t used my Edge Pro in a couple of years. My Sharpmaker is fine in a pinch, but doesn t give me the consistent results of the WE or EP.

 

[Misanthropia]

As someone who bought an Edge Pro, was disappointed, and then sold it and bought a Wicked Edge, I have to endorse the latter. They both can yield the same results, but the process by which you receive them is vastly superior on the Wicked Edge IMO. There is way less human error involved, which is a huge part of the Edge Pro. There's far more variables on the EP that are difficult to control in comparison to the WE, especially stone thickness. It's a little absurd that the EP doesn't come with the drill collar stop when it's almost entirely necessary in order to ensure consistent angles. Not to mention the setup time and the mess that comes with the EP is frustrating.

I bought a Wicked Edge because I wanted consistency, and that's what I got. Very much worth the cost of entry. I was happy with the edges I was getting starting with my second knife.

 

[Sadden]

As someone who bought an Edge Pro, was disappointed, and then sold it and bought a Wicked Edge, I have to endorse the latter. They both can yield the same results, but the process by which you receive them is vastly superior on the Wicked Edge IMO. There is way less human error involved, which is a huge part of the Edge Pro. There's far more variables on the EP that are difficult to control in comparison to the WE, especially stone thickness. It's a little absurd that the EP doesn't come with the drill collar stop when it's almost entirely necessary in order to ensure consistent angles. Not to mention the setup time and the mess that comes with the EP is frustrating.

I bought a Wicked Edge because I wanted consistency, and that's what I got. Very much worth the cost of entry. I was happy with the edges I was getting starting with my second knife.

Some people (such as yourself) prefer a fixed jig for the reasons you mentioned. But some people want to transition to freehand later on and I believe that the EP is better suited to those people. It teaches muscle memory and forces you to use your off hand. This presents a learning curve that is not really a factor in something like the WEPs. This is something I like about the edge pro , and others dislike it.

The drill stop collar should come with every model of the edge pro i agree. On the WEPs dont you have to use the angle cube every time you change stones though? At least if your using any waterstones (thickness on the diamonds should be pretty close accross the board). But a set like the shaptons would require checking the angle cube on each arm every stone change wouldnt it?

 

[toker]

On the WEPs dont you have to use the angle cube every time you change stones though? At least if your using any waterstones (thickness on the diamonds should be pretty close accross the board). But a set like the shaptons would require checking the angle cube on each arm every stone change wouldnt it?

Unless the stones are of distinctly varying thickness, the initial angle setting should be good.

 

[Misanthropia]

Some people (such as yourself) prefer a fixed jig for the reasons you mentioned. But some people want to transition to freehand later on and I believe that the EP is better suited to those people. It teaches muscle memory and forces you to use your off hand. This presents a learning curve that is not really a factor in something like the WEPs. This is something I like about the edge pro , and others dislike it.

The drill stop collar should come with every model of the edge pro i agree. On the WEPs dont you have to use the angle cube every time you change stones though? At least if your using any waterstones (thickness on the diamonds should be pretty close accross the board). But a set like the shaptons would require checking the angle cube on each arm every stone change wouldnt it?

If you are using waterstones, than yes you would have to do the same procedure with the WE as well. They did recently come out with an adapter for the WE that works the same way as the drill collar stop, but in traditional WE fashion it's very expensive.

The funny thing is that I learned how to freehand sharpen first, before I bought any of the jig systems. But seeing as how 90% of production knives need to be reprofiled out of the box to reach high levels of sharpness or cutting performance, I wanted something that could very precisely reprofile. I still touch my knives up freehand, which I think is the quickest and easy way to do it. I would love to get some nice, high grit waterstones to touch my edges up after I've put an even bevel on them.

 

[Sadden]

If you are using waterstones, than yes you would have to do the same procedure with the WE as well. They did recently come out with an adapter for the WE that works the same way as the drill collar stop, but in traditional WE fashion it's very expensive.

The funny thing is that I learned how to freehand sharpen first, before I bought any of the jig systems. But seeing as how 90% of production knives need to be reprofiled out of the box to reach high levels of sharpness or cutting performance, I wanted something that could very precisely reprofile. I still touch my knives up freehand, which I think is the quickest and easy way to do it. I would love to get some nice, high grit waterstones to touch my edges up after I've put an even bevel on them.

Just went and looked em up. I would have to agree 40$ is a little stiff compared to something that's 3$ for the EP.

I think that method is an excellent one, reprofiling with a jig and touching up freehand. It's the best of both worlds. Its something I have been working on , I sometimes touch up my knives on my EP stones just like a person would use a fullsize stone. Although to freehand a knife from start to finish I am still modest at best , mostly due to a lack of fullsize stones. That's a transition I hope to start making sometime in the next year or so. I want everything I have for my edge pro in its fullsize counterpart.

 

[Taeko]

I think there is a limit to how much we should be expected to pay to sharpen our knives. Wicked Edge pushes that limit. The high cost may be related not to the cost of their products but to their decision to emphasize promotion through a sales force. To support one full time sales person, most companies have to have 3/4 of a million in extra sales per year. So a good chunk of what you're paying for may be the service provided by the sales people.

 

[toker]

I think there is a limit to how much we should be expected to pay to sharpen our knives. Wicked Edge pushes that limit.

- Really? Considering the cost of the knives that members of this forum own, sharpening their knives should be very high on the list of importance.

 

[Taeko]

- Really? Considering the cost of the knives that members of this forum own, sharpening their knives should be very high on the list of importance.

I never said sharpening knives wasn't important. This board is big enough to share different opinions and exchange ideas in a constructive way.

 

[toker]

I never said sharpening knives wasn't important. This board is big enough to share different opinions and exchange ideas in a constructive way.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off harsh. My point was that if I'm going to sharpen a several hundred dollar knife with my limited sharpening skills, I want the most idiot proof system out there.

 

[Sadden]

- Really? Considering the cost of the knives that members of this forum own, sharpening their knives should be very high on the list of importance.

This is one of my pet peeves...

"I am looking for a cheap stone set to sharpen my Sebenza , Strider and Spyderco Knives in various exotic steels , but my budget is 40$ , I also want a perfect mirror polish"

................

 

[thefamcnaj]

For my folders the lanskey system(with diamond stones)
Works well. I get a mirror polished edge and razor sharp. After that I just maintain the edges on a strop.
They never see the sharpener again after my initial reprofiling.
I think its around 50$ or so I can't remember exactly.

 

[uofaengr]

Something that's often ignored but has to be taken into consideration regarding the WEPS is that everything is bought in twos at the minimum, usually fours. A set of the standard diamond stones (two grits) is $70. That's $17.50 per stone not including the cost of the handles. Last I checked, you can't even get one Edge Pro stone for much less than $20, and their wear rate is exponentially higher than that of the WEPS stones that for one, do not dish and don't need to be flattened.

I have borrowed a set of and tried the variable stone thickness adapters, and I don't think they're for me...I can "re-cube" every grit just as quickly. Also, you have to buy 2 of them; thus, increased cost. Myself and some others have recently done a set of tests on the stock WEPS stones on the WE forum that show there's really not enough variability in the diamonds to need to measure the angles between grits (this does NOT include waterstones obviously), but I measure between grits and micro adjust anyway because I choose to be OCD about it. And if you need to measure the angle between grits, it takes less than a minute to check and adjust both sides, seriously. When you're going to spend at least a couple of hours on a knife going for a perfect mirror polish, seriously, what's one minute between grits?

In all seriousness, the base $275 system will get you a knife sharper than you'll ever need. After the stones break in a little, the 600 grit stones will leave edges, IMO, as good or better than what the 1000 grit stones leave when they're brand new leaving an excellent EDC edge with a nice sheen to it. Of course, like with anything else, you can spend as much as you want buying accessories and such to get ultimate mirror polishes, but in real world use, you'll most likely find yourself falling back to toothier edges on the stock diamonds...YMMV.

I also think no system is idiot proof and they all have their quirks. All take a little bit of thinking and effort on the user's part to get good and repeatable results. I think a lot of people buy a system and think, "here you go, system, do it for me" then post about how their knives aren't sharp. Even with the Edge Pro, you sometimes have to think a little and use some math particularly on FFG blades to get the result you're looking for. Regarding clamping FFG blades, it's no different than an Edge Pro...sometimes a little thought on the user's part is involved. I recently put together some CAD drawings to back up the math and posted on the WE forum some simple addition and subtraction to use when clamping FFG blades to get perfect, symmetrical bevels every single time. No system can correct laziness; however, as no system is perfect and some situations require a little thought combined with practice (though I guess we're all somewhat lazy buying guided systems else we'd learn to be proficient freehanding). On the same note, most any problem with these systems have solutions posted on multiple forums and there are people waiting to help you...help's there if you seek it and are willing to learn. If you end up choosing the WEPS, I'd suggest checking out their forum as there's a wealth of knowledge there.

I can't remember if I got that sharp with the stock fine rods, but the ultra fine rods of the Sharpmaker will produce hair, whittling edges. How much sharper do you need than that? Granted, the SM is not a reprofiling tool, so generally anyone wanting to move to something with a little more horsepower than the SM is usually either going for a reprofiling tool or aesthetics i.e. mirror edges. Then again, I've seen plenty of mirror edges achieved freehand. It's all about what's important to the user, but no system is magic as they all require a little effort. To eliminate the quirks of all these systems, the solution is to buy some stones and learn to freehand. When it all hits the fan and we're stuck out in the woods somewhere, we're gonna look pretty funny carrying our Plano cases full of 30 lb worth of Wicked Edge stuff or trying to find a flat, smooth surface to stick our suction cups on our Edge Pros to.

With practice and obviously more cash invested (though the possibilities are endless just buying blank WEPS paddles and sticking on your own materials or taping them over your stones), the possibilities of the WEPS:

 

[ToddM]

For years I used a lansky to re-profile and a sharpmaker to touch up/maintain and it worked well, was pretty portable and I like a toothy working edge. It was horrible for big blades though, and the newer pot metal clamps are junk compared to the old ones.

About a year ago I got a edge pro with custom stones and all the add-ons. I did get slightly better results compared to the lansky but I was already getting sharp edges, I really wanted more flexibility. The edge pro is still a pain, most knives don't have enough of a flat on the blade to use as a guide, and one of the things you find is the grind angles can vary more than you think, so either you make adjustments every time you switch sides or you end up with bevels that are off the center axis. It's messy, you need to flatten stones, did I mention the mess? Every time I sharpened a folder I had to tear it down and clean out the pivot etc. It's better/faster for re-profiling especially with the Atoma 140 diamond stone, but it's still too much hassle to use frequently. So I was back to setting the profile with it and using the sharpmaker to micro-bevel and maintain just like the lansky.

I've thought about putting massive amounts of time to relearning freehand, a couple decades ago I was ok at it, I like that it works with any knife, but my science/ocd brain just won't accept that I could ever consistently hold angles that varied less than a degree. I've never liked stropping because I like a toothy edge, even a strop with medium compound seems to make a very sharp edge but with no bite.

I've looked at the WE, seen it demo'd at SHOT, watched the videos, read the reviews, but it too seems to have it's own issues, it seems like it still requires a flat/true blade area for solid consistent clamping (I've seen the foam tape/moleskin fix..... not impressed), and that flat has to extend down the blade so you can adjust the knife forward/backward in the clamp to keep the edge angle consistent to the tip. I do like that you can set each stone angle individually, it's fast and uses diamond stones for less mess/maintenance. It still seems to have issues with arm slop unless you buy the $750 system. At the end of the day people are still jury-rigging improvements/fixes for it and that's a lot of $ for a sharpener that "needs" modification. Don't get me wrong, I agree that too many people have thousands of dollars tied up in knives but complain about spending a few hundred dollars on a sharpener to maintain them. It's like guys that won't spend $2000 on a gun safe for $25,000 worth of guns, or put a $200 scope on a $2000 rifle. I also know plenty of guys that have spent more than $750 on lots of cheaper sharpeners none of which worked for crap over the years.

If they came up with a clamp that could conform to various blade grind angles I'd probably give one a try, until then I can't help but see it as a system with some distinct advantages but still some of the same problems as a lanksy but with 10x the price. It's also not that I'm a big edge pro fan, honestly if I knew what I know now after using it for a year I wouldn't buy it again, or I'd have bought a base model with just 2-3 coarser stones for re-profiling.

 

[gwgang]

At some point, you gotta be honest with yourself: do I enjoy the whole process of sharpening more, or do I just enjoy a sharp knife? Do you want to become a sharpener and offer your service to others?
If all your knives are under 5 inches long, then don't bother spending so much on sharpening.
1. DMT aligner blade guide + DMT Coarse plate to reprofile: it got wider angle choices and good clamp. Skip this if you don't have any super wear resistant steel.
2. Spyderco Sharpmaker to establish the actual toothy cutting edge, (be it 30 or 40 degree), add Ultra fine stones if you want to refine the edge(hair whittling sharp);
3. Strop with two or three compounds repeatly to mirror polish your edge if you so desire. It looks cool, but it got scratched the first time you cut some cardboard.

You are in the hobby for the knives, not to be super proficient at sharpening.

 

[J-P SAN]

The edge pro is an excellent system.

However the polishing tapes are gimmicky and are cost ineffecient long term.

Buy a base model EPA or EPP and add a handfull of aftermarket stones and strops. It helps build some muscle memory , teaches you the basics and makes for an easier transition to freehand later on if you so choose. Buy the right set of aftermarket stones and if you decide to stick with the EP then you can easily build on that set.

So a base model EPA would pair well with a set like this

140 Atoma , Nubatama 150 , 1k , 4k and 8k.
140 Atoma Shapton (Pro) 220 , 1500 , 5k and 8k.
You could add a nanocloth or kangaroo strop with some 0.75u CBN to push things a little further if you felt so inclined.

What makes them gimmicky? Interested because might buy said system in near future.

 

[uofaengr]

You are in the hobby for the knives, not to be super proficient at sharpening.

Not necessarily. Sharpening to some is a hobby in itself; to others it's a task. Then there are folks with 200 knives, only in it for the knives, that can't/don't know how/don't care to know how to sharpen a single one of them. Nothing wrong with either philosophy.