Hey Guys...
Upnorth...
Exactly..
Wind Chill will F you up....
Getting out of the wind,, even a slight breeze will sap heat from you....
When ice fishing we sometimes use a small windbreak behind us...
It's all thats needed, and although it's still cold it's warmer then the other people standing or sitting freely in the elements....
A car turned into a snow cave would have been these peoples saving grace...
If only this fellow had stayed in the car, Christmas would have been a joyous event this year for the family.
Unless the car is on fire,, or sinking into water.. NEVER leave the Car....
gotta hammer it home to people like Skunk,,as I still don't think he gets it...
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
Normark, I don't think you get it.
What I am saying is that people freeze inside their cars. It's fact, happen every winter, check it out.
A car turned into a snow cave would have been these peoples saving grace... I don't agree with your statement, and here's why...
They didn't perish sitting or standing out in the elements!
I would say thirst and hunger probably was overtaking them, and Kim finally set out, figuring it had been 8 or 9 days and waiting any longer would be futile. I'm not saying what he did was right. But they had survived 8 or 9 nights without a magical snowcave car.
What would a snow cave have done for them? Kept them alive 8 days? Well, they did that without a snowcave car. Evidently they were keeping themsleves sheltered enough from the elements to stay alive.
Did any of them get frostbite? Lose fingers or toes? I haven't read that.
I did read that daytime temps were reaching 50°F
I certainly don't advocate tromping through the forest in jeans and tennis shoes, that's for sure.
But just saying the words "Stay with your car" doesn't convey everything else that goes along with it. It's not the 'magic pill' people think it is.
Pick a cold night, and go stay in your car. it sucks. The car keeps you out of wind and rain, no problem there, I agree, let's not throw comon sense out the car window.
A debris shelter, dug into the ground will keep you MUCH warmer than a car.
A car has too much air space and very little insulatory value.
I am not saying abondon your car and walk 10 miles from your car and build a debris hut, but, how about right next to it. Or turn the car into a debris hut.
Stuff it with leaves!
The car as a snowcave has a huge drawback...
You stay with the car PRIMARILY so they can SPOT IT from the air.
How are they gonna SPOT IT if you cover it with snow???
Same problem in blizzards, the car gets covered with snow along a stretch of road, you'll get plowed off to the side of the road into a 10 foot snow bank by those large snowplows, and are stuck inside your vehicle.
That is the biggest problem with stay in your vehicle.
They find cars weeks later, as the solid snowdrifts melt.
What I am saying is that sheltering in your automobile is easier said than done.
It's not as simple as reciting STAY IN VEHICLE andwait for a genie to appear.
I've been in holes over night with just a poncho over me, I've slept in cold vehicles, in cold aircraft, and a lot of other inhospitable places. Give me a hole in the ground or a debris hut anyday, metal vehicles are Cold as Ice!
Use common sense: If it's 30 mph winds and blowing snow, of course, you are going to seek the best wind break you can, the car.
How about this: it's going down to Zero F at night, no wind. You have no blanket, no fuel. Will you survive the night in your car? I give you a much better chance in a dug-out/debris-hut than in a metal car.
Yes a car would better than being outdoors in the wind and rain, but unless you are going to insulate the vehicle, stuff them with leaves, cover then with pine boughs, etc, you are gonna get darn cold, and perhaps freeze to death inside of one, depending on the low temps.
If you have adequate gear, covers, blankets coats, etc. you'll be much much better off in your car. The debris hut, correctly constructed, is about a 200% better insulator for body heat than a car.
In the case of the Kim's, it was late November, early December.
Had it been Jan. or Feb. they would have been ice cubes way before the 9th day.
The real lesson to be learned about the Kim's situation, is not so much staying with the vehicle, as it is
being prepared to stay with your vehicle. Anyone who is going to drive through uninhabited areas, in bad weather, better have a box in their trunk, with all kinds of survival goodies, just in case.
Part of the reason for the mantra "Stay with your Vehicle" is that they first assume it's Joe Average Sheeple who has very little outdoor skills, and very little in the way of prepared gear. The SHEEPLE's best bet is to sit and wait, and hope.
If sit, wait, and hope is your main game plan, go for it.
I think a lot more explanation and information needs to be involved with the "Stay with your Car" advice. It's too general of an instruction.
Even Tom Brown advised building a Debris Hut if it was that cold.
Stay "with" your Car, doesn't necessarily mean STAY "IN" your Car.
We have to realize they are speaking to the masses, the clueless, the unprepared. They are playing a statistical game, more people survive staying with their vehicle. But, still plenty of people freeze to death in vehicles too.
You can believe and hope you are amongst the ones who don't freeze, or you can have more tircks up your sleeve than just reciting "Stay With The Vehicle" for 8+ days.
How about this: In the glove compartment of every car should be a survival booklet covering most terrains, most weather conditions, how to signal, how to fend for yourself.
Or, instead Maybe we can just have a dummy light on the dash that flashes "Stay with your Car". (but will people do when the battery dies?)
I think we should concentrate on what skills and gear would allow someone to stay with your car, and not just rely on the mantra itself as a survival instruction.
What does everyone here have in their vehicle, with them normally, that would help them get through a "stranded" situation?
And I think Skunk should be the guy to start it, as only he can.
