Tomahawk for camping/ hiking/ hunting?

volvi · Apr 16, 2003

Cliff,

I used my Gerber Camp Axe to split a large seasoned, oak log into firewood last fall and the edge never rolled. We beat the tar out of that axe, and the only damage to the edge was a small 1/16" chip. I seriously doubt that repeated use will break a Gerber axe handle under normal use. I believe one would only break if you were purposely trying to break one, and that would be extremely hard to do. Wrapping the handle is a good idea, but totally unecessary. There's no way a Gerber handle would break under if used properly. In fact I would go so far as to state that gerbers handles are attached more securely to the axe heads than GBs, and the fiberglass is practically indestructable. Heavy ABUSIVE impacts to any axe handle will eventually break it, but the synthetic handles on Gerber axes are every bit as tough as the hickory handles on GBs.
Gerber heat treats and tempers their axes correctly, and to state that their steel is soft in comparison to a quality axe like Gransfors Bruks, is to imply that Gerbers are soft and not quality axes. Gerbers are from Finland and whether it's a Gransfors Bruks or a Gerber, the Scandinavians certainly know how to make quality axes. GBs are manufactured differently, but all quality axes are heat treated and tempered in a similar fashion and are made out of quality high carbon tool steels.

I agree that GB makes some of the best (maybe the best) axes in the world, but Gerbers axes are in comparison also very high quality and more affordable.

Cliff Stamp · Apr 16, 2003

volvi :

Heavy ABUSIVE impacts to any axe handle will eventually break it ...

Which was exactly the situation that m described, which is why I recommended a steel frame like an Estwing or a quality large knife out of a decent tool steel.

... to state that their steel is soft in comparison to a quality axe like Gransfors Bruks, is to imply that Gerbers are soft and not quality axes.

No, it doesn't imply anything about quality in general. Lots of axe and tomahawk makers favor softer heads (~50 RC) and lots of cheap cast heads are very hard (~60 RC) - this doesn't mean the cheap cast heads are better.

-Cliff

m · Apr 16, 2003

Last Saturday the 12th I took my Fiskars(Gerber) hand axe,a cheap gun show special forged tomahawk,a Basic 7,and a few other assorted sharp things out to a woodpile that had some well aged hard to split cut wood in it since I wanted sort of a worst case scenario.I didn't have much time but I wanted to see how well the hand axe split against the tomahawk.
I found that the tomahawk got hung up on the eye and I couldn't force it past the eye with the 2*4 baton I was using.When I used the hammer poll on the Fiskars as a baton I could force the eye into the split but I deformed the eye pretty badly on the tomahawk.In fact the steel of the eye was starting to separate from the steel of the bit on one side where the eye is forge welded to the bit. The Fiskers was not hurt using it as a baton or by hitting it forcefully with the tomahawk.I could even baton on the handle of the Fiskars near the head to force the head all the way thru and it didn't seem to hurt the handle.So then I beat on the handle harder.Still not much to see.Then I took both hands and hit the handle near the head full force against an edge of the wood I was splitting.Still not much to see.So I did it again and again many times and finally got it to dent.It still seemed to be held on strong even after I got it to dent.So I took out my Klein sharpening steel(It looks like the Camillus wedge shaped steel) and beat it into the wood with the handle of the Fiskars.I finally got the handle to show signs of breaking after using it to beat a sharp edged, hardened piece of steel into some pretty tough wood.Then I beat the handle two handed against the wood some more to see if that would finish it off but it didn't seem to hurt it any further.This is a tough handle!Another thing I like about this handle is that it attaches to the head without the head having an eye so the head is not weakened for pounding and being pounded on by having an eye.
After deciding that the handle was probably tough enough for my needs I pounded my sharpening steel in with the poll of the Fiskars and saw no dents on the poll.The bit of the axe was not affected at all by the splitting of course so I decided to try some digging with it.Chopping into the ground and what felt like some decent rocks with the Fiskars did produce a lot of dents on its edge.The steel on the Fiskars is soft enough that my Nicholson sharpening file took out the dents and restored the edge with just a couple of passes per side (my Leatherman poacket tool file did not do much for it though,I don't know if it is dull or too soft or what is up with that).This is my only real concern for this axe so far since it is so wedge shaped it doesn't seem like you could remove much metal before the bit would be too thick to get a decently narrow edge on it.Also the severe wedge shape does make it a little harder to get it started in the end grain since it wants to bounce back out,but that doesn't seem to be a big problem.
All in all with my (although limited)experience with the Fiskars I think the Gerber Pack Axe will make a good emergency chopper/splitter for me while hiking or hunting.It seems tough enough and seemed to split better than pounding my Basic 7 and other blades through the tough wood.It chops better on harder wood even when choking up on the handle than the knives or the tomahawk.Green wood or smaller wood may be a different story though.I will probably still carry my Basic 7 or another medium sized blade with me,at least till I get more varied experience with the hatchet.The PackAxe is lighter and/or shorter-easier to carry than some of the other good chopper/splitters i've used.
As always differing oppinions and other's experiences always encouraged.And thanks for all the help and information.

Cliff Stamp · Apr 17, 2003

m :

In fact the steel of the eye was starting to separate from the steel of the bit on one side where the eye is forge welded to the bit.

Most axes will take damage to the eye if you pound on the poll hard enough, but this usually requires a heavy hammer or better. It depends on the thickness of the steel, the hardness and other things though. Some people leave all that steel annealed which makes it very weak and easy to deform. At a spring temper (~45 RC), it is very tough and still very strong.

my only real concern for this axe so far since it is so wedge shaped it doesn't seem like you could remove much metal before the bit would be too thick to get a decently narrow edge on it.

This is why no quality wood working axe has a triangle profile. The optimal solution would be to grind a hollow(s) into the face of the head, but this is going to take some time even with a decent power grinder, and you have to be fairly careful to get the curvature even or else the head will pinch badly.

If axe isn't that expensive I would just sharpen it until the head thickened too much and then either have someone work it down, or simply buy a new one and keep the old one for a dedicated splitter, grubber, root work and other heavy work where a fine edge isn't really required.

Also the severe wedge shape does make it a little harder to get it started in the end grain since it wants to bounce back out

This is more of a problem with the angle of the wedge rather than its inherent properties. Most production axes are simply far too obtuse and need a lot of filing to set the edge at a decent bevel to allow solid penetration. The only axes I have seen which were usable NIB are the GB ones. Even the recent Iltis I pick up needed over an hour of filing to set the edge.

Good to see the handle held up so far, however any cracks, dents or other faults in the handle will continue to propogate with every vibration. I have seen composite hammer frames snap in half after extended use because of the growth of a tiny crack from one accidental hard impact. These faults are generally best reparied as soon as possible by working some epoxy into the cracks, letting it set and filing clean.

If possible carry a spare pack axe as they are not that large. This way you can lean on the one you want to evaluate without concern of being without it if it gets too badly damaged. Plus if you then get into an actual emergency situation it never hurts to have one axe which you can put a fine edge on and another to use for the rougher work or simply to loan to someone else.

-Cliff

m · Apr 19, 2003

Thanks for the epoxy suggestion Cliff, I think I will do that but I might play with it this way a little longer to see how bad it gets or if it breaks. These hatchets are relatively inexpensive and I picked up a BackPaxe to keep for good uses so I can play with this Fiskars as a beater for a while and see if this is going to work out for me.

Cliff Stamp · Apr 23, 2003

That is definately the best method. Just a note on the Estwings, I have also seen those suffer bend and even broken frames, the latter was really shocking. You can get a lemon even with something that overbuilt so always do some work to check the basic soundness before you are forced to rely on it.

-Cliff

DancesWithKnives · Apr 23, 2003

Cliff,

I have such an Estwing. It is the larger axe. Someone (hopefully not me!) must have been having trouble getting it unstuck from a log, because after a certain trip it ended up with a slight bend in the metal shaft. I can still use it, but I may try taking the bend out.

That's why I don't bring my Gransfors axes on those trips! A broken wood handle on a nice GB would have really ticked me off (even if I did it).

Cliff Stamp · Apr 23, 2003

Yes, I bent a large Estwing in the same manner, I gave it to my brother as its durability is isn't only advantage and I had no need for it. That was a couple of years ago and it is still going stong despite being used very heavily far beyond its intended scope of work, including splitting some very poor wood with the aid of a small sledge. Nice axes for beaters, for anything else they are far outperformed by the GB axes.

-Cliff

kanochris · Sep 15, 2003

I carry a hawk sometimes and .... really don't use it much
But I like it ha ha ha gotta be the kee in me
regards
Chris

Metcalf · Sep 16, 2003

I usually carry one of these now. I have used the heck out of it over the last two years now and still love it to death....

Fraser · Sep 16, 2003

If you are just beginning to learn about camping, you might want to look into the Leave No Trace program at www.LNT.org.

For 30+ years I found a simple Swiss Army knife more than ample on the Appalachian Trail. Never needed an ax. Just recently I broke the knife. I now carry a 3.5 inch fixed blade.

Enjoy yourself.

Kampfjaeger · Sep 16, 2003

Beautiful hatchet Metcalf... What kind is it? And may I be so gauche as to ask how much you paid for it?

David

Robert H · Sep 17, 2003

If you're going out on prepared trails with pre-packaged food and synthetic shelter, the need for the axe or hawk is gone. If you're going to use natural shelter or need a good tool/weapon, the hawk can't be beat. I keep an ATC Vietnam with the synthetic handle on my load bearing equipment, since it works as a weapon, breaching tool, outdoor tool, and a good tool for building hide sites. The spike works great for dragging around barbed wire as well. If I'm going hiking civilian wise I use the Gerber Camp axe for driving stakes and chopping firewood.

backpacker · Sep 17, 2003

I like a 7" folding saw for creating a shelter, making firewood and safety. I think it is the way to go. I team the saw up with a 7" and 3" Pac Pal by Allan Blade and everything can be done. This combination only weighs 1 lb. 7 oz.

Also, using a saw is a lot less work than an axe or large knife. I can cut up to 9" logs when using the saw. Most people do not think of saws because they are not a romantic tool.

If I was to substitute another tool in for the saw, it would be a GB Mini Hatchet. I have the GB Wildlife and SFA, but, the Mini is more than enough for walking around in the woods. Also, it is so small and light that it is much easier to control for safety purposes.

The first rule in survival is safety. Don't make your situation worse.

Thanks,

Geoff Massa

Kampfjaeger · Sep 17, 2003

Does anyone here know anything about the hatchet pictured in METCALF's posting? It looks really cool!

RokJok · Sep 17, 2003

IIRC that is a carving hatchet. I'll try to find verification of that and post results here.

Kampfjaeger · Sep 18, 2003

Cool... You know who makes it? Is it designed for hard use?

RokJok · Sep 18, 2003

Yep, it's a carving axe. It's much like the one pictured in the second link below. I have seen pictures of one like Metcalf shows, but can't just now remember or establish who makes it.

Some links to pics or vendors of carving axes or hatchets:
http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/produkter/p_slojdbila.htm
http://dragonwood.freeservers.com/photo3.html
http://www.treelineusa.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=230-9903
http://www.piragis.com/gransforsbruks/gransforsbruksaxes.html
http://www.roselli.fi/1/eng/products/RP-L.html
http://www.aloghomestore.com/tools1.shtml
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/nwlch.jpg

(edited to add) Okay, I found it. I believe it is a McGowan Manufacturing axe as pictured here: http://www.equipped.com/pp/pic1030.htm That picture is linked from this page: http://www.equipped.com/shot_show_2003_knives.htm

Metcalf · Sep 18, 2003

My little axe is made by a company called Firestone...no not like the tire! It has been a great little axe. I have beat on it pretty good, they are expensive however, I paid about $125 for mine (short handle, head, and sheath ) if I remember right. Here are some different pics and info....

Here is a link to the only place I have found to buy just the head and straight handle version. The stock short handle I have is nice, it is fully laminated construction and really strong. It is a little bit short to really get a good swing, but it also packs a lot nicer than a longer handle. I think I am going to order a longer handle to try out.

http://www.throwzini.com/firestone_axe.html

The sheath is really good quality, but a poor design in my eyes. I really want to get a simple flap one built that sits a little higher on my belt. I also want it to be able to clip into my backpack somehow.

A few other things....

-You really can't pound with the back of the head at all, not that I make a practice to do this with my axes. There is a nice big allen head set screw that holds the handle positioned right on the back of the head.

-Mine came with a good edge, but not that sharp. The angle is a little too steep, but it is a really long lasting edge. I only touch mine up, I have never needed a stone, just a steel, rod, or belt. One of these days I will have to have it reworked to a shallower angle, I am just not brave enough to take that much meat off of the head.

-The head is stainless (good and bad) and hella strong. I don't think too many people would be breaking anything....

If you have any more questions just ask...

Kampfjaeger · Sep 19, 2003

Thanks for the info and link! Very cool.

I'm gonna be doing some looking.

Tomahawk for camping/ hiking/ hunting?

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