Tomahawk Q&A Thread

[Dwight McLemore]

I bounced this off the knife forum a week or so ago and thought I would put out a feeler here. As some of you may know we had a very successful seminar at Virginia Beach, Virginia last year titled 'Bowies on The Beach'. One of my Senior students, Expert Knife Instructor Gary Mah is part owner of the Ramada Inn on The Beach and got us really good room rates (on the water) and nice conference room for the instruction. Our training and social events were really great. Made lots of new friends. Gary and I have been considering devoting one of these to the Tomahawk in the March time frame. Possible title is Tomahawks in The Trees. Focus will be on training with the hawk. We are looking at holding this outside at the First Landing/Seashore State Park which is about 8 min. from the Ramada. Attendees will have the choice of staying at the hotel or at the cabins in the park. The instruction will be geared to the beginner and intermediate levels working with some basic drills and multiple opponent work. What do you think? Is this worth the effort? Let me know by private e-mail at d-mclemore@worldnet.att.net.

Best
Dwight

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

What do any/each of you think defines a tomahawk as a tomahawk, compared to, say, a hand axe (hatchet)?

The word tomahawk is from the Algonkian (Algonquin) Indian language, used by the Powhatan Indians around Chesapeake Bay. I think Captain John Smith of Jamestown fame was the first to document the term, if not it was one of his contemporaries. It was the word the Powhatan Indians used for a hafted stone celt, the original type of stone hatchet in use by the Indians. They simply applied the term to the hatchets colonial blacksmiths made and traded to them. Since they were prestige and status items for the Indians all the men carried them. The term entered in colonial usage. In other words, it was simply the Indian word for hatchet. The original tomahawks/hatchets were identical in form to hatchets in use in Europe at the time. These had a more flared edge than modern day hatchets, the typical "tomahawk" shaped edge we're familiar with. Modern hatchets have taken on a different shape, but originally a tomahawk and a hatchet were the same thing.

 

[Flop-shank]

A hatchet is for wood cutting. A tomahawk is primarily for throwing and fighting as well as cutting wood.

 

[Mark Williams]

Tomahaken for sinking deep.... into white man noggin

Just kidding

 

[FSCJedi]

The original tomahawks/hatchets were identical in form to hatchets in use in Europe at the time. These had a more flared edge than modern day hatchets, the typical "tomahawk" shaped edge we're familiar with. Modern hatchets have taken on a different shape, but originally a tomahawk and a hatchet were the same thing.

8.) Then when did it begin to take on the shape we generally to consider to be that of a tomahawk?

9.) Did the tomahawk's head shape alter depending on the location of/or the tribe? In other words, was a Cheyenne 'hawk different from a Blackfoot hawk, etc...?

 

[TLM]

10.) How many parts of a typical tomahawk are weapon and how many tool, what's the balance in a typical historical TH.

11.) Any pure tools or pure weapons, or was it always a "practical mix".

TLM

 

[harpers ferry]

2.) How do you suggest we find a proper length for both tomahawk and longknife to use? I've heard the "fist to elbow" way of determining hawk length. What's the opinion on that way? However, is anything over 7" (which you say is a considered a longknife) ok as more of a "whatever you're comfortable using" deal, or is there a good way to choose knife length? Where should the balance be for the longknife, as well?

I can't be the only one with questions, can I?

The optimum length of a hawk handle for fighting and for throwing is usually not the same. Hawk handles usually come in a length that is perfectly balanced for fighting and chopping wood. Most average size men must cut their hawk handles a couple inches to size for throwing. This is the shorter "elbow to fist length" for most hawk throwers. So the elbow to fist length is optimum for throwing in most cases. The longer length is balanced for fighting. Also, a wedge in the top of the handle would not be out of order for the fighter. A wedge for the thrower is right out. If you want a double duty hawk you could use two handles for the same hawk and interchange if needed, no wedge involved here on either handle. See what I mean? I use my short handled thrower for chopping kindling and in a pinch would feel better off having a short handled thrower than no hawk at all.

When I chose a throwing knife I was less concerned about the length and more concerned about the weight. I chose a knife that was closest to the weight of my hawk. Although my throwing knife could be used as a fighter in extreme circumstances, I'd just as soon have a 8" dirk for SD. I just don't think fighting knives and hawks are the same as throwers. Something has to be sacrificed.

 

[Flop-shank]

Tomahaken for sinking deep.... into white man noggin

Just kidding

I prefer the idea of a white possum's noggin. LOL The white guy thing gives me a headache just thinking about it.

 

[Flop-shank]

Did the tomahawk's head shape alter depending on the location of/or the tribe? In other words, was a Cheyenne 'hawk different from a Blackfoot hawk, etc...?

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that they varied from region to region.

TLM, any tomahawk could be used as a tool or weapon. Some were just more specific in their purpose. A spontoon hawk is a great example of one that's more specifically a weapon. A hammer poll would be a tool with great a$$ kicking potential.

Harpers Ferry, I have to say I'm kind of partial to dirks myself. It's definately a great ethnic weapon. Especially if you're of gaelic descent like me.

 

[TLM]

TLM, any tomahawk could be used as a tool or weapon

I understand that quite well, so can a hammer (look at war hammers!) I am more interested what we know of actuall usage for either purpose.

TLM

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

8.) Then when did it begin to take on the shape we generally to consider to be that of a tomahawk?
9.) Did the tomahawk's head shape alter depending on the location of/or the tribe? In other words, was a Cheyenne 'hawk different from a Blackfoot hawk, etc...?

Tomahawk shapes varied a lot historically. From what I've seen of museum collections you could find a variety of shapes being made and in use at the same time by the late 18th-early 19th centuries. The typical tomahawk shape you refer to is, I'm thinking, the shape where the edge flares downward significantly, but the top doesn't. The original 16th-17th century European axes flared down at the bottom and up at the top of the edge. Think of a Frankish throwing axe. I googled real quick while writing this and found a link to an archaeological specimen of a Frankish throwing axe:
http://www.nogy.net/frankish/
It conforms to the general shape of European axes that were the first "tomahawks". Even these photos show variation between specimens. I'm not sure that the variations in shape of tomahawks affected function a whole lot. It was probably whatever the blacksmith liked to make, whatever looked cool to people.

 

[Flop-shank]

Thanks for the link, Dr. Van Horne. That's a beautiful little axe. It's too bad it can't tell us it's story. It reminds me of my Cold Steel Trail Hawk (thin blade, small head, hammer poll). That's beautiful work that smith did (he's been lost to the sands of time, but his work lives on ). I don't think I've ever seen pictures of a ferrous axe head that old, so it's a neat insight into what the craftsmen of the fifth century (if that date is accurate) could do. I love the way the smith drew out that thin blade.

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

It's very interesting to hear the axehead appraised from the point of view of someone who has worked with iron. I know next to nothing about the art of turning stone into steel, so thanks for some insight into the craftsmanship!

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

With all of the questions about spikes, spontoons, tomahawk shapes, etc., I was wondering if any of you are familiar with American Indian Tomahawks by Harold L. Peterson, (1965)? This book is a wealth of information on tomahawk types, methods of construction, etc. It was originally published by the Museum of the American Indian, Heye Foundation and is full of photos. It is unfortunately out of print, but it might be worth checking out your local library to see if they have it or can get it on interlibrary loan. It is the best book I know of for getting a handle on (oops, sorry) tomahawk typology and history.

 

[FSCJedi]

12.) Dr. Van Horne, from what you know of your study on the recipients of the tomahawk's business end, what results of wounds are likely? I.E. How deep does a 'hawk chop generally penetrate (as in how likely is it to hit a vital organ)? Can it sever a limb and/or the spinal cord, or penetrate the front of the skull (thickest part) and/or rib cage? That sort of thing.

 

[Fearsclave]

12.) Dr. Van Horne, from what you know of your study on the recipients of the tomahawk's business end, what results of wounds are likely? I.E. How deep does a 'hawk chop generally penetrate (as in how likely is it to hit a vital organ)? Can it sever a limb and/or the spinal cord, or penetrate the front of the skull (thickest part) and/or rib cage? That sort of thing.

After a few months of cucking my CS Rifleman's Hawk around, I've reached a few preliminary conclusions on this topic:

1) There is no good way to be hit with a tomahawk.

2) Judicious, well placed application of a hawk to a non-hardened or armoured target will usually seriously mess up the target.

3) Getting hit with a hawk can ruin your entire day. Even a butt or handle hit. Hardwood is called what it is for a reason.

4) A stick in your tender pink anatomy will likely result in much bleeding, screaming, calling for your mommy, and other non-threatening behaviour.

Any others?

 

[Flop-shank]

12.) Dr. Van Horne, from what you know of your study on the recipients of the tomahawk's business end, what results of wounds are likely? I.E. How deep does a 'hawk chop generally penetrate (as in how likely is it to hit a vital organ)? Can it sever a limb and/or the spinal cord, or penetrate the front of the skull (thickest part) and/or rib cage? That sort of thing.

A tomahawk is hell on the end of a handle. A dull tomahawk will demolish a human skull. I have no doubts about it. A sharp one will do it all the better. I put a Cold Steel Frontier Hawk through a T.V. screen (3/4" to 1" glass with a compound radius), the damage to the T.V. and hawk were catastrophic. The hawk required some serious edge repair. The Tele is quite dead. If you want to see what a hawk can do, whack a fresh road kill or get some animal parts from a butcher or something. Soft tissue won't stop a hawk until the handle hits.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Hi I have started to work with leather and am trying to find a simple design or clear pics of how a throwing hawk and knife or just hawk could be carried in the field . Bandolier or waist as long as both knife and hawk are easily available .

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

Dr. Van Horne, from what you know of your study on the recipients of the tomahawk's business end, what results of wounds are likely?

Historically, the most common fractures were to the skull, clavicle (collarbone), ulna (forearm), and ribs. These are consistent with a strike descending down at a person, which would hit the skull or clavicle. If a person raised their arm to block the strike they got a fractured ulna. Most ulnar fractures were to the left arm, consistent with blocking a strike from a right-handed person. The broken ribs are consistent with slashing sideways with a tomahawk. The bones are typically broken clean through and the skull has a long, thin hole in it the size of the axe blade. Soft tissue injuries aren't visible on skeletons, of course, so their isn't any archaeological record of those.

There is no good way to be hit with a tomahawk.

I second this motion!

 

[Wayne Van Horne]

Hi I have started to work with leather and am trying to find a simple design or clear pics of how a throwing hawk and knife or just hawk could be carried in the field . Bandolier or waist as long as both knife and hawk are easily available .

Dwight McLemore's excellent book shows examples of how they were carried.