Too many knives ?

[Ghost Kobun]

Saint, you nailed it, as I can speak perfect english, some of the french grammar is still ingraved in my being. Sun Helmet, as for the writing on my web page, I have a better spell check system.

Apart from all this can we continue-- or do you have more to say-- Sun Helmet...

I do not understand your last point: What book?? Be precise please
As for the wording, Filipino--Philippines or did D.Inosanto spelled this wrong. Perhaps he had a French teacher.

Ghost Kobun: I don not understand you reference on my Moniker?

Out

 

[Ghost Kobun]

weapons of oppurtunity:

Weapons of opportunity exist in every day enviroment, thus many Martial styles make transitions from an origninal training weapon to an improvised one. The Filipino (Sp from TFMA) people train hard, & proud of their heritage, understand that the blade in modern society may hold legal implications.

My understanding, Sayoc Kali merits positive reflection on how the blade is moraly change into effective weapons of opportunity. This is a wise method of applying their art, as modern society advances.

It seems that criminals have more rights in defending their world. We are left to hold our our own srutanized(Sp) by a judge who has never left the comforts of the country club.

In Karate we are also taught the weapons of opportunity. As our traditional Kubodo weapons, are actualy concepts learned. A great example of this isthe sword,(Most Karate do not use the sword,yet in some styles where the Master belonged to Kendo schools prior to--the sword IS taught) The sword play can transend into simple hand movements, which can be used to handle threats.

more to come (Must change little girl)

Kobun on Daddy Duties

 

[Ghost Kobun]

weapons of oppurtunity:

Weapons of opportunity exist in every day enviroment, thus many Martial styles make transitions from an origninal training weapon to an improvised one. The Filipino (Sp from TFMA) people train hard, & proud of their heritage, understand that the blade in modern society may hold legal implications.

My understanding, Sayoc Kali merits positive reflection on how the blade is moraly change to day to day effective weapons of opportunity. This is a wise method of applying their art, as modern society advances.

It seems that criminals have more rights in defending their world. We are left to hold our our own srutanized(Sp) by a judge who has never left the comforts of the country club.

In Karate we are also taught the weapons of opportunity. As our traditional Kubodo weapons, are actualy concepts learned. A great example of this isthe sword,(Most Karate do not use the sword,yet in some styles where the Master belonged to Kendo schools prior to--the sword IS taught) The sword play can transend into simple hand movements, which can be used to handle threats.

In many of the Martial ways, instructor including myself are very reluctant to teach students lethal techniques. We would rather have a waiting period, in whcih the instructor assess the complexities of a student.

Thus my reasoning for asking the question in my origninal thread. In a style so complet,how are the "_________"(Censored) checking students moral use of the style. In Karate we have Black lists, in which a student using Karate for mischief is penalized. This has little or no effect.

CQC:

It is also understood that a higher level of threat response is needed for professionals including soldiers & LEO. Thus weapons of opportunity reflect the task at hand.Example E-Tool/helmet/belt/boot laces/ for soldiers.
Example Cell phones/wallets/change for civies

Kobun

 

[Longshot]

Your original spellings were:

"Gees, & you guys keep saying your so nice--the Phillipinos are always nice."
"Perhaps--I am just as nice as the Philipino"

Dan Inosantos book "The Filipino Martial Arts" uses the spellings:
"Filipino", "Filipinos" and "Philippines"

So if your are trying to say your using the same spelling he did in his book you must not remember your posts or you are misunderstanding Sun Helmets corrections because I am looking at my autographed copy right now. Everyone has typos when doing this kind of stuff (postings) but you seem to be intentionally disrespectful and antagonistic and that is why you are being called on them.

I used to own a business in Victoria, BC and as an American had no bias towards French Canadians so all the Canadians that complained of their arrogance, rudeness and questionable business practices had their complaints fall on deaf ears. I had no idea what they were complaining about. But then I picked up 3 business clients from Quebec... WOW! That was a nightmare of collections and unscrupulous business dealing with my other clients that led me to pursue legal action and the need to do extensive apologising to alot of good people (my other clients who interacted with them). I believe it is the minority of individuals that unfairly portray a majority of good people with these negative stereotypes. But it is hard to hear the silent majority...

This is a VERY small community and if your going to move around in it you need to be respectful even if you disagree... or maybe not even like certain individuals or training methods/styles. The Martial Arts community is VERY unforgiving of certain breaches of conduct and decorum and a reputation and ALL credibility can be lost forever (and the FMA community is even smaller yet... let alone those who specialize in Blades).

It might be best to simply say... well I am not going to tell you how to conduct yourself because whatever you do needs to be genuine.

I wish you the best of luck Kobun, perhaps you should write in a Word Processing program or have someone review your written thoughts if this posts are merely misunderstood. At any rate sometimes it's best to just say...

 

[Sun Helmet]

In many of the Martial ways, instructor including myself are very reluctant to teach students lethal techniques. We would rather have a waiting period, in whcih the instructor assess the complexities of a student.

It makes sense if one is NOT teaching KNIFE combatives.
Why introduce them to anything that can have serious consequences?

Of course, there's always the responsibility an instructor must accept... NOT teaching the student does not mean you are saving anyone from anything. In fact, NOT teaching them could get the student killed if they have a false security about knife realities. But that's not for everyone, so to each their own. Some karate schools knows what it means to get blood on their gi's.

Thus my reasoning for asking the question in my origninal thread. In a style so complet,how are the "_________"(Censored) checking students moral use of the style. In Karate we have Black lists, in which a student using Karate for mischief is penalized. This has little or no effect.
Kobun

How we check students is basically an inside operation. If we told everyone not in the system, then many of the methods will be obsolete.

In the simplest of terms, if you misuse any knife system, the least of one's worries is being black listed... you'll have to contend with the law and the consequences of your actions (on many levels). It has very little to do with your school or instructor.

The knife is an intimate instrument of destruction.

The fastest the student realizes this, the better their chances are of being /acting 'moral'.

We don't hold back showing the lethalities of the knife.
If a person comes to a knife class, it is the prime responsibility of the knife instructor to clue the student in that it is a weapon that delivers lethality with no conscience. Only the weilder is in control of their actions.
Not the instructor.
Only the student is in charge of what happens to him if he acts incorrectly. Another early moral lesson to teach.
Do not sugar coat the knife.
Do not let the student think he has FULL control of what happens when the knife is deployed.

Now we can be dishonest and skirt around the issues... that's not up to anyone but the instructors out there. It all depends on what you think is the 'moral' thing to do.


--Rafael--

 

[Copis]

A wise karate instructor with prohitionist/elitist tendencies...... :barf:

In Hormat (where it belongs)

Bill

 

[Ghost Kobun]

Thanks Long shot for your insight, as I do not live in Quebec, your remark makes no sense. As for blood boiling as a action versus misspelling names, I would hope the blade community is more understanding.

If bladed people get angry at petty things, such as typos, imagine the consequences when something horrible happens.

You have made me smile

Kobun

Thanks Sun Helmet, for you expertise, as I truely appreciate your tolerance with my spelling.

French--Frenchman--Frenchi--Francais de Gaul--Quebequer--Tabarnacos

(Tabarnacos is actually a name that French people have in Mexico)

Karate:

Some of our clubs have had the oppurtunity to get blood on our Gi's. I respect your answer on the blade topic.

Kobun

 

[Ghost Kobun]

Some less reality based Martial system lack the nessessary realism of their combative theories. In knife training how do you people train ?

Example of how some clubs train: Using stage blood
Real blades (Dulled)

Interested in knowing more.

 

[Sun Helmet]

If bladed people get angry at petty things, such as typos, imagine the consequences when something horrible happens.

You have made me smile
Kobun

Definition of 'Petty':
"small and of little importance"

If we get sloppy in spelling the country of origin of the martial art we practice daily... then how much are we truly paying attention?

It isn't like we're talking about any country or culture, nor are we speaking about random typos, but the country/culture which directly originated the art, and the system you focused a whole thread with.

If they were actual typos, you'd have spelled them correctly at least once prior to being corrected.

It has nothing to do with emotion, that would be a projection.

The people who pay attention to detail fair better than those who do not when something horrible happens.

For example, you call yourself Ghost 'Kobun' which translates as Ghost 'Soldier', but you 'claim' you do not know the significance of the terms as they relate to the Philippines....

--Rafael--

 

[guromkb]

Kamusta Ka Tuhon Rafael...I agree with your take %100. Being a brother of the bladed Philippine systems, Pekititirsia Kali imparticular and now my own eclectic system of Kali-Rongan and Sayoc Kali in the very near future (I'm attending Tuhon Kier's seminar in Wichita Falls ) detail is perhaps one of the most important characteristics one must hone, if this edge isn't sharpened in training then in my opinion your combative nature may in fact be as sharp as a marble. Personally I try to stay as sharp as possible in all facets of my life, from my training to my family life to my self studies of history and world religions etc. As my dad always said "Going through life deliberately dumb makes for a boring life". As far as Ghost Soldier is concerned, I'm married to a Filipina and she had family who parished in the death march as well as the war in general, her mother comes from Cavite and tells us many sad and horendous stories of those day's. For those who fell in the Philippines both American and Filipino I say GUMALANG at KAPAYAPAAN. Take care, Salamat

Guro Michael B
Kali-Rongan
SATX

 

[Ghost Kobun]

As I have worked with many Filipino's in the Hospitality industry, I have tried here to explain my typos & I have been told to be more precise. Working with these gentle fun loving people I have come to conclude that their culture is rich not only in the bladed arts, but also in food & dance.

I have edited my posts in order to properly spell the country name & people.
Yet being precise, I have also never concluded myself to be an expert--only as an opinion did I refer the art as being warlike. Some will agree with me others will not.

Kobun

 

[Sun Helmet]

Working with these gentle fun loving people I have come to conclude that their culture is rich not only in the bladed arts, but also in food & dance.
Kobun

We got it... you LIKE the 'gentle Filipinos'.
They give you food and they dance!
They make you SMILE.
Got it.

'gentle fun loving nature' of Hospitality workers MIGHT be a common trait that some HOSPITALITY workers have,... SOME originate from the Philippines.

I've met gentle hospitality workers from every country I visited, it kinda goes with the job title.

Btw, Filipinos are about as diverse as they come.
Some used to hack off and collect heads, then they ate food and danced.
The only smiles they wanted from outsiders were the dark smiles they opened up in their throats.

--Rafael--

 

[Ghost Kobun]

Being precise: I said I worked with Filipinos,NOT they feeding me.

This taken from your words:" They give you food & dance"

Perhaps we should call you Blood Helmet.

As nothing positive comes from your mouth.

This conversation is over...

Thanks for perpetuing your own hate !

Someone said the FMA was a tight group,& not to offend them,

I agree

Kobun Out

P.S. If LEO are really part of the Sayoc community, they might want to be aware that many LEA are actually appalled over the vital templates available on the net. Remember that the French are also brutal people. Yet we know how to smile, once in a while

Good day

 

[fishmonger]

Hi All, Kobun I think you owe a lot of us an apology for the broad , clumsy and sweeping remarks you have made , you started a thread in which you talked about things you dont seem to have any knowledge of and insult all of us who train for self preservation because of your own views on what should be available to the public with regards to knife skills , if you get cornered one night with someone trying to take your life or assault you , wouldnt you want all the skills you could get ? You just dont seem to know when to quit , I have visited your website and your english seems fine to me you seem to me to make a lot of excuses for what you have said after the responses you got were not what you expected , in future if you are going to comment on something ask questions and do your research before you start talking about "fma " people , you claim to be a kali practioner which makes you one of us , just remember a fish only gets caught cause he opens his mouth . fishmonger

 

[Ern-Dog]

P.S. If LEO are really part of the Sayoc community, they might want to be aware that many LEA are actually appalled over the vital templates available on the net.

Knowing what the targets are in a given template, and learning a Vital Template are two TOTALLY different things. If you would have bothered to actually go to a Sayoc Kali seminar or train with a licensed Sayoc Kali instructor, you might not have made this error.

 

[Ghost Kobun]

Noted that I did make errors (Typos)

I did correct them, but that was not enough !

Most of my origninal thread was destroyed, in order to propell your own crusade. Words like respect the art/effective system mean anything to you ?

As I came here to ask questions, I was cont. imbarrassed.

As a Chef I use a knife on a day to day basis. I slice/dice/cut things all day, at least three hours a day I devote my being to steel. Just because I am not Filipino never make the mistake that I can't handle a knife.

( Don't worry about me in a dark alley Fish monger)
KOBUN

 

[Ghost Kobun]

One of my misguided remarks was the Sayoc intent & purpose. As you are all offended by this, yet you propell your views about the system & let's be precise, no one yet has proved to me that it is not.

I meant the remark as a compliment, since many of the Bushi has been watered down to the point of being non effective. Yours is very effective, yet you do not take this as a compliment, what does it take?

Warefare means war, the streets are the battleground, the enemy, lurks at every corner. Therefore, Sayoc would be a great asset to be schooled in...

Do you now understand my reasoning for my remark: Sun Helmet said it best, that the knives used are designed to cause internal damage.(CIAW).

Does that effectiveness, NOT propell the need for a battle in order to use this skill.

I find that many here are full of their own BS.

The **** I have learn is for warfare, & I don't clinch in saying it.

The bayonet is for killing=warefare

A triangular blade is made for bleeding someone to death=period

Unfortunatly in this world made of lawyers & Judges, non lethal alternatives must also be learned. Unfortunatly, that origninal question was never answered, thus I will assume as I hade said: Sayoc can only be used in warfare.

As for the templates: Those strikes can be life threatning, perhaps not VITAL, but how vital does a strike to the neck have to be


Kobun

 

[fishmonger]

So we go back to where we started kobun with you making assumption after assumption and blowing a lot of hot air about a system you dont know anything about , please refrain from commenting on "intent and purpose " if you cannot take the time to research your comments and as for many of us being full of our own BS you are the prime example kobun , stick to what you know mate , cooking , maybe you can be like Steven Seagal in under seige "I also cook " good luck to you mate , Fishmonger :thumbdn:

 

[Sun Helmet]

So we go back to where we started kobun with you making assumption after assumption and blowing a lot of hot air about a system you dont know anything about , please refrain from commenting on "intent and purpose "

The fact of the matter is that Ghost Kobun's act has been played out.

He's resorted to name calling which is a sure sign of his true agenda.
He never wanted to listen about what Sayoc is about - his main objective is to tell others what he thinks about Sayoc.
Why are we surprised?

You can see the way he poses his questions.
He makes an assumption, even a false one and then try ways to support it.

When called upon to think about the CONTEXT of his writings - for example the utter condescension towards the 'gentle' Filipino he feigns ignorance or typos.

He attempts to turn the tables on those who points out his errors by blaming it on their aggression. Certainly 'un-gentle' behavior in contrast to the Filipinos in the Hospitality circles he 'knows'.

We had a guy from Belgium with the same MO.
Perhaps they should form their own system!
The 'What is wrong with Sayoc system' :yawn:

Kobun, if you're ever in that dark alley...
bring a fork with you instead, because you're done.

--Rafael--

 

[Sun Helmet]

One of my misguided remarks was the Sayoc intent & purpose. As you are all offended by this, yet you propell your views about the system & let's be precise, no one yet has proved to me that it is not.

Incorrect (surprised?).
People were not offended, but pointed out that you placed value judgements on a system you didn't train in.
Basically, your whole point is that one knife is moral and two or more is not. Which is rather silly since no matter how many knives one carries, it is only the knife that have inflicted damage in the bad guy's body that has anything to do with the actual scenario.

You even stated you carried three chef knives for work.
That doesn't mean you are using all three knives simultaneously.

From your initial post:

I carry one blade, I find that moraly,it is enough to protect myself.

Yet, you contradict that statement with this:

I meant the remark as a compliment, since many of the Bushi has been watered down to the point of being non effective. Yours is very effective, yet you do not take this as a compliment, what does it take?

It takes being truthful to what you're really trying to imply. That although Sayoc is for 'warfare' and 'efficient', your morality and methods are much BETTER for you and others such as the LEOs you claim to teach.
Basically, you started a thread, not to talk about how effective Sayoc is, but to use it so that you can beat your chest and puff up your ego.
People can see thru insincerity.

Again, you ended your initial post with this value judgement on Sayoc, that was NOT complimentary at all, was it?

I would see the need to carry more in warfare--but fortunatly for me in live in a place where the need is non existant.

Need we go on and actually interpret your inappropriate post FOR you so that you are not so confused?

Warefare means war, the streets are the battleground, the enemy, lurks at every corner. Therefore, Sayoc would be a great asset to be schooled in...

You just CONTRADICTED your initial post, but perhaps the blame lies with your "poor english or typo":

I would see the need to carry more in warfare--but fortunatly for me in live in a place where the need is non existant.

Next you attempt to force team my comment below so that you can use it incorrectly to support your 'argument' (which of course you contradict again by saying all that I talk about is negativity):

Do you now understand my reasoning for my remark: Sun Helmet said it best, that the knives used are designed to cause internal damage.

It doesn't assist your whole argument at all about MULTIPLE KNIVES. ONE knife used on a bad guy is still a knife. The amount of knives you carry doesn't mean you will use them simultaneously. It doesn't even apply to the way we train Sayoc Kali. However, you do not understand the methodology and thus make a false assumption about multiple knife carry.

I find that many here are full of their own BS.

That's just because you're looking at several mirrors at once.

The **** I have learn is for warfare, & I don't clinch in saying it.

Actually you do. Read your initial statement again:

I would see the need to carry more in warfare--but fortunatly for me in live in a place where the need is non existant.

You follow this with more jumbled logic.

Unfortunatly in this world made of lawyers & Judges, non lethal alternatives must also be learned. Unfortunatly, that origninal question was never answered, thus I will assume as I hade said: Sayoc can only be used in warfare.

Here's your original question:

How many knives does one require to be safe?

For someone who carries spare knives for kitchen work, you can not follow the logic that people would carry spare knives for survival?

People were not answering it because it is self-evident.
You carry multiple knives for economy of motion, for back up, for multiple use (perhaps one is for work), as well as many other reasons anyone would carry spares for.
You also have a very limited view of what Sayoc teaches... not everything is lethal. We have methods for "friends and family members".

As for the templates: Those strikes can be life threatning, perhaps not VITAL, but how vital does a strike to the neck have to be. Kobun

What do you think you will be doing with your ONE knife Kobun... as opposed to carrying two knives? Will ONE knife lessen the damage?

As per knowing the vital templates, at least you will know WHY you are doing something, instead of merely "striking the neck" - which has no useful information as far as what you're actually doing when you damage the:

1. Sternocleidomastoid Structure
2. Carotids - Internal/External
3. Jugulars
4. Spinal Accessory Nerve
5. Hypoglossal Nerve
6. Cervical plexus
7. Brachial Plexus
8. Omohyoid Superior Belly

for starters.

You will then teach students how these affect the human being you are personally inflicting damage on. What the body does, what to expect.

In fact, it is one of the MOST important MORAL lessons to teach a knife student. Why? Because they have a REAL understanding of what they are doing and will only act because their life depends on it.

They are no longer "striking the neck".. like some butcher cutting something that's already dead and murdered for them.

It makes the student THINK about their actions with the added bonus of an EDUCATED opinion.

Something that you might want to practice sometime.

--Rafael--

Sayoc Kali