Too Many Sharpeners

L

likem

Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
13
TOO MANY SHARPENERS and opinions ---- I have a birthday comming up and need a sherpener for a wide veriety of knives. The forums I know will say the Sharpmaker-But there is always a post following that it will not do it all. I am a poor sharpener and worked on my SAK last night and used first a rough silicone carbige then a smooth bench stones. Did not like the results at all.
Took a tool that has a blade clamp and three slots. The hone has one shaft and four stones mounted on it and you rotate as needed. I do not know the maker but had it in storage for about 8 years. It has Heavy, medium, Fine grit and one grooved for seratted. I went through all three stones at the lowest angle and then went to a higher angle. Now my SAK has a straight edge instead of the shaped rounded form blade shape. I think I lost about 15% of the steel.
It is now sharp but will not pop a hair as some of the posters claim. What will do a good job on a knife without killing the profile of the blade shape and giving a razor edge? Here is a link to the blade photo. http://members.sparedollar.com/knife2b/sak.JPG Take a look at this. And tell me is this what I am after and if so I think if I did this 6 more times would there be any blade left to use. ------ Thanks likem
 
No need to be sorry. I need your opinion so I can have my wife buy me the sharpener I really need. :cool:
 
I also have a Sharpmaker which I thoroughly recommend however I am now in the process of getting myself an Apex Edgepro. There are two main reasons for this:

The Edgepro will, I think, be much better for reprofiling.

The Sharpmaker is limited to 30 and 40 degree edges. I have at least one knife on which I want a different angle and the Edgepro can do that.

However, if you do not need anything other than 30 or 40 and you are not doing a lot of reprofiling on hard steels then the Sharpmaker if definitely the best value for money sharpener around and almost foolproof in operation.
 
There's many sharpeners, but there's only two that consistantly get praise and reccomendation.

Spyderco Sharpmaker 204

Edge Pro
 
Sounds like what you have is a lansky or gatco-type system, they work fairly well for smaller blades like SAKs.

Read up on the "marker trick" here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330335

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328490
(many more if you search)

You only need to use coarse grit until the entire edge bevel is created. Then move to finer grits.
The reason it's not sharp is either:
1. You aren't getting all the way to the edge (looks like you have two bevels in the pic).
2. If not #1,. then you may need a finer stone or a lighter touch. The 'fine' on a lansky never did it for me either. (I got the Ultra-Fine)

Now, if you want to learn to use:
Sharpmaker
Edge Pro
Freehand bench stones.
Convexing an edge (using sandpaper)
Try to seach for those terms...

and read this:
http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsharp.shtml
 
What you NEED to do is to get a set of the Spyderco 302 8" ceramic benchstones and learn how to use them...That's what I use, and my knives are so darn sharp that if I even look at 'em too long (without touching 'em), they'll cut me.:).
 
In a way it looks like the sharpener that you have really worked :) . There are some tricks to using any sharpener and you learn the tricks by experimentation and careful analysis of your results. It is possible to unintentionally modify the profile of a blade with almost any sharpener. My first question is, do you understand why you got the results that you achieved? I would guess that the fixture was set in such a way that you couldn't follow the curve of a short knife blade. Could you get around that problem? I would also guess that you used the coarse hone on your sharpener way too long. You need to start out a bit slow and careful so that you don't damage your knives. You also need to stop and look at what is happening as you procede. Did the sharpener sort of force you to remove so much material or did you just lose track of what it was doing?

Regardless of what you pick for a sharpener you need some practice knives to experiment with. Go down to a Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift store and buy some old dull kitchen knives. Try and find some long ones and some short ones. Try out your techniques on these. You can even go out and dull the knives on some cement or rocks and sharpen them again. This is a cheap way to learn how to control and get the best results out of a sharpener.

Don't be surprised if you don't get "hair popping" sharpness all the time. It may not be your technique. You may just have tough hair or the steel may not be that great. The trick to shaving performance is to realize that hair is pretty hard (it is kind of like a plastic), but very thin. The only part of your edge that makes a difference to a hair is the last few thousanths of an inch (the thickness of the hair or the slant-thickness if you cut the hair a little on the bias). Shaving sharp is getting the apex of your edge very thin, so that it starts to cleave the surface of the hair, and at a very narrow angle so that it doesn't push the hair over while trying to wedge the part of the edge that is behind the edge through the hair shaft. The basic requirement for shaving is to hone to a very low angle (say under 12 degrees per side, under 24 degrees included angle) and with a fine enough hone to get a clean apex to your edge. Part of that final edge finish involves honing alternate sides of the blade (left-right-left-right) using very light strokes. You can't finish working one side at a time. If you are going for shaving performance it also helps to do some stropping when you finish. Stropping is when you draw the blade along the surface of a hone or strop with the edge trailing (or looking another way, the spine of the blade forwards). This will leave any loose edge material aligned with the edge for better shaving.

For simplicity it is hard to beat the sharpmaker. If you only use the medium and fine rods that come with it you are unlikely to greatly change the shape of your blade (the rods just don't cut all that fast). If you want a shaving edge don't use the 40-degree setting at all. Just work on the 30-degree setting. Strop on leather when you are done.
 
Clattman -I did try to get two bevels or am I to count the original blade taper as one. So that would mean I have three?
likem
 
Spyderco benchstones:
stones-03.jpg

(from NewGrapham)

Thanks, Vassili.
 
It sounds like your technique produced two bevels. For shaving you want the first bevel down around 10 to 12 degrees and the second bevel extremely narrow and at 15 degrees or under. In your case you should have done 98% of your work at the lowest angle possible and only a few very light strokes at your next higher angle using only your finest grit hone. You should not attack this microbevel using all of the grits or using much time or much pressure.
 
Thanks Jeff
I think you are right. I am new to achieving a super edge and I also think I used the course side much too long with heavy pressure. I might be wanting too much too soon. I wish I did not do it on my EDC because this one has a magnifier on it and I need it for work and to see other fine print because my vision on small detail is very the magnifier is what I use more then the blade itself.weak
I have very many knives. dating from 1947 to today and likem all. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
Thanks likem
 
likem said:
Klattman -I did try to get two bevels or am I to count the original blade taper as one. So that would mean I have three?
likem
Click to expand...

It sort of looks like you have two on the edge (I don't count the overall blade grind, because you don't really change that when sharpening - usually).

So there is the "edge bevel" or the one right on the very edge, and the "back-bevel" the one just behind the first.

In Jeff's example 12 degrees would be the "back-bevel" and the light strokes at 15 deg. would create the "edge bevel".

The 12 degrees gets the bulk of the blade out of the way of the material you are going through and the 15 is the actual edge doing the cutting. You could create the edge at the exact same 12 degrees, but that is difficult to get perfect. 15 degrees guarantees that you are getting the very edge sharp.

When you are first starting out no matter what system or freehand or sandpaper etc. you use, I suggest the marker trick. Wherever the marker comes off will tell you exactly where you are removing metal...
 
I'll put in a vote for the Edge Pro over the Sharpmaker... and I've used them both.

I base some of it on how my first knife came out. On the Sharpmaker it was OK.... better after time. First knife with the EdgePro surprised me how well it came out.

You can reprofile with the EdgePro easier than the Sharpmaker... and if you have to remove a lot of metal... you'd have to buy something else w/ the Sharpmaker... or buy the diamond stones.

I think the Sharpmaker has it's place... but the EdgePro is more versatile, and gives you more control.

So if you're down to these two.... I'd go with the Edge Pro.
 
There's good and bad with the Sharpmaker.

The Good- Easy to use, gives consistent results- once the bevel matches the bevel of the sticks. Easy to store and carry. Can easily make knives very sharp. Works well on non-knife edges, also.

The Bad- If the bevel doesn't match the preset 30 or 40 degree angles, you're in for a fight. Does not do well with edges needing major reprofiling.

The Solution- Buy the 204, and a good coarse stone. When you come across a thick bevel that needs thinned, lean the stone against the stick. Sharpen, then use the sticks as normal.
 
I am starting to think again that the edge pro may be the save all and the sharpmaker for touch up.
Wow 300 dollars to sharpen knives?
Likem
 
likem said:
I am starting to think again that the edge pro may be the save all and the sharpmaker for touch up.
Wow 300 dollars to sharpen knives?
Likem
Click to expand...

That's the general idea most here have about the Edge Pro/ Sharpmaker combo. Edge Pro for the tough jobs of back beveling and such and the Sharpmaker for the 'light' work of touch ups. However, I do suggest this. Get the Sharpmaker first along with some ultra fine rods and practice using the Sharpmaker to get that hair popping edge on different knives. You'll learn to adapt the Sharpmaker to certain knives and know when to use and not use it (i.e. I wouldn't back bevel an S30V blade on a Sharpmaker unless you have lots of time and arms that don't tire easily, I learned the hard way). Then, move up to the Edge Pro. Once you are comfortable with one, you can use them together to get that scary sharp edge. I saw the pic of the SAK :eek: ;) . I use the UF Sharpmaker rods for about two minutes on SAK blades to get a scary sharp edge each time. Hope this helps.
 
Tonight I put a bragging edge on a new knife. One of the things that made it a lot easier is that it is a hollow ground blade made out of a fine-grained alloy. It is a Spyderco Centofante III. It is under .1 inch thick and made of VG-10.

Now it came with an excellent edge and I had already touched it up with my Sharpmaker, but I really wanted an outrageous edge. So I took this brand new, rather delicate knife to the belt sander. I reduced the back bevel to under 10 degrees per side. I started with a somewhat worn 120 grit belt, then 320, then 600 grit. Then I went to a 1000 grit Shapton waterstone before going to the Sharpmaker. I propped up the Sharpmaker so that I could hone at around 10 degrees per side. I worked through all the steps from the edges of the medium rods up to the flats of the Ultra Fine rods. Then I microbeveled using the Ultra Fine rods at 12.5 degrees, stropped on chromium oxide, and put on a micro-micro bevel at 14 degrees.

When I went to try my shaving test I just touch the skin and painlessly drew blood. Great swathes of arm hair just brushed off my skin. So although I can sharpen a lot of different ways, this is what I do when I'm real determined.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top