Tool Confusion........

ryan9977

ryan9977

Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
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hey guys....i am hoping someone could help me out....i am beginning to set up my shop with a bunch of tools.....i don't have an extensive background with tools and machinery like most of you....it seems everyone here is from a machinist background....expert woodworkers and everything in between....i am looking for a few items....

a drill press

a bandsaw

that is probably it for now....but what makes a good tool?....how do i know what is goo dquality...i see alot of people talking about harbor freight drill presses and others saying everything from there is crap.....also...what the heck is the difference between a metal and wood cutting bandsaw.....can't u just change the blade for one or the other?.....someone please help me out...i get more confused the more i read....ryan
 
a metal cutting bandsaw has the blade under much more tension, and has more torque to it. It also needs to move much slower. So yes you could modify a wood bandsaw to use for metal by changing the wheels to slow it down. As a general rule everything in metal working must be done slowly, so you'll need a slower drill press aswell.

Most people it seems use a portable metal cutting bandsaw and them build a table and mount for them. much cheaper.
 
Ryan,
I'm no expert.... and I'm a cheap bastard too. I use a cheap HF drill press, nothing fancy, I have to be extra careful setting it up but it drills holes every time I turn it on.

The main difference between a metal and a wood cutting bandsaw is belt speed. Metal cutting saws turn a lot slower than a wood cutting saw.

There's a reason brand names are "brand names". Go to a tool store and just look around, it's kinda obvious what the differences are. Precision, ease of adjustment, the ability to stay zeroed, and accessories are just few things that come to mind.
 
thanks guys.....for the bandsaw....what do u mean change the wheels?....that sounds hard to do.....i will probably mostly be using the bandsaw for wood mostly.....is it better to get a wood saw and use something else if metal ever has to be cut or to have a metal saw and modify it for wood?....thanks fo rthe advice guys....i was not blessed with a dad that taught me about tools as u probably guessed....ryan:D
 
Drive wheels..... changing the wheel size changes the drive ratio.

I used a multi speed table top saw from HF for a while... it kinda worked.
 
Ryan, In my opinion a bandsaw is not super high on the list of need to have tools. If you get say an angle grinder and some cut off wheels you will spend little and still be able to use it when you get the metal cutting bandsaw. Wood cutting bandsaws are nice but again they are not super high on the list either. Of course some of this depends on what exactly you are doing.

Now a drill press is pretty much a must have item. Because you will have to drill holes and a drill press will make your chances of drilling a strait hole 200% better.

Things to look for in a drill press. #1 warenty #2 multi speed (pretty much all of them are) #3 solid action and table If anything wobles your holes will be..... uh.... wobbly:)

Hopefully someone will chime in on specific drill presses cause mine is not made anymore. Even if they were still being made I dont think I would recomend it. I guess my point is from my experience after the belt grinder the drill press is maybe the most important tool you will buy. That is in a bare bones shop.
 
ryan9977 said:
thanks guys.....for the bandsaw....what do u mean change the wheels?....that sounds hard to do.....i will probably mostly be using the bandsaw for wood mostly.....is it better to get a wood saw and use something else if metal ever has to be cut or to have a metal saw and modify it for wood?....thanks fo rthe advice guys....i was not blessed with a dad that taught me about tools as u probably guessed....ryan:D
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Unless you have another use for the bandsaw, like your a woodworker, i would recommend you skip the handsaw for now. or get a little craft sized one for cutting out handles.

for cutting metal an abrasive cutoff saw, or an angle grinder will work well. angle grinder for more detailed work and can help you with bevels. a cutoff saw would mostly be for taking off big chunks, not mandatory.

Cutting metal with a hacksaw is a lie. seriously. it made me cry. twice. In retrospect I have no idea how I actually cut my knives out, it must be like childbirth.
 
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I use a $9 HF 4" angle grinder to rough cut metal.... works great for that.

I'll run down my shop power tools.

Burr King
HF $65 benchtop drill press
HF $10 buffer like thingy
Foredom rotary tool
HF $9 angle grinder
HF heat gun
HF $9 electric drill
$30 yard sale bench top bandsaw for cutting handle materials and soft metals (I use $15 Lenox bi-metal blades)
$5 Yard sale toaster oven with $5 timer for tempering
$1 Yard sale coffee pot for heating vinegar for etching (I just put a cup on the warmer element, wife won't let me microwave vinegar anymore :( )
Electro Etcher thingy for marking blades

For making knives the grinder, foredom and drill press are used in every knife.
 
I use a Harbor freight 4 X 6 metal cutting bandsaw. I couldn't get along without it. They are much quicker and more precise than chop saws and angle grinders. Best $200 I ever spent. They aren't great quality, and you may need to tweak them a little, but the next step up costs about $1500.
 
This is my bandsaw and I love it.
http://www.cpojettools.com/products/414458.html
I started out with a Harbor Freight vert./horiz. for $150. If you try that, fork out the extra $25-$35 for a better warranty.
I've tried some pretty expensive blades, but ironically, the ones I like most are the cheep 24tpi 64" blades I get at Harbor Freight.
I use them to profile scaley, 1/4" thick S30V. Remember to flip the blade right side out before you stretch it onto the saw; it comes out of the package with the teeth running the wrong way.
 
nifegrinder said:
This is my bandsaw and I love it.
http://www.cpojettools.com/products/414458.html
I started out with a Harbor Freight vert./horiz. for $150. If you try that, fork out the extra $25-$35 for a better warranty.
I've tried some pretty expensive blades, but ironically, the ones I like most are the cheep 24tpi 64" blades I get at Harbor Freight.
I use them to profile scaley, 1/4" thick S30V. Remember to flip the blade right side out before you stretch it onto the saw; it comes out of the package with the teeth running the wrong way.
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Thats the exact same metal bandsaw I have and I like it allot. I made a slightly bigger better fitting table for it so small cut-off parts cant fall into the blade and rollers. $300

For a drill press I still use my Harbor Frieght 16 speed bench top model. I do have a mill for more precise drilling but the HF one has been good for over 10 years. $269
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I use a Harbor freight 4 X 6 metal cutting bandsaw. I couldn't get along without it. They are much quicker and more precise than chop saws and angle grinders. Best $200 I ever spent. They aren't great quality, and you may need to tweak them a little, but the next step up costs about $1500.
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They're faster than chop saws? Guess i should stop talking.
 
wow thanks fo rall the info guys....i'm gonna hold off on the bandsaw and go fo ra drill press right now....i appreciate it.....now all i gotta do is find a cheap propan bottle for my forge and something to use for an anvil and i might be in business....ryan
 
For cutting knife size stock, there's no way a bandsaw is going to be as fast as a chopsaw. A chopsaw is only going to cut to length though... no contour cutting.

A hacksaw is actually a pretty fast way to cut metal, but you need to know how to use one. First, you have to select a blade with proper pitch for the material you are cutting. A very fine toothed blade isn't going to clear the chips in the cut, and will just rub the material more than cut it.

Hacksaws only cut in one direction, like a file. If you press down while you're hacking back and forth with it, you're just going to ruin the blade and cut very little.

Something I see a lot of people do, is put their material in a vise with the area to be cut far away from the jaws. You want your cut to be made as close to the vise jaws as you can safely do (yes, this will often mean moving the material as you go) or otherwise the metal just flexes back and forth.

Just like with a lathe and a mill, your work needs to be securely fixtured to file or saw through it efficiently.

Ryan, a metal cutting saw will cut wood, you just have to be careful or your chips (saw dust) will load up in the cut. Wood should be sawn with a coarser pitch blade and at much faster speeds... but it can be cut on a metal band saw.
 
Something that I might add when picking out blades for metal that I don't think alot of people that are just beginning realize. Blade pitch is important...I usually, try to keep a minimum of 2 teeth in the cut. I think this is one of the points that Nick might be thinking of....



Bill
 
NickWheeler said:
For cutting knife size stock, there's no way a bandsaw is going to be as fast as a chopsaw. A chopsaw is only going to cut to length though... no contour cutting.

A hacksaw is actually a pretty fast way to cut metal, but you need to know how to use one. First, you have to select a blade with proper pitch for the material you are cutting. A very fine toothed blade isn't going to clear the chips in the cut, and will just rub the material more than cut it.

Hacksaws only cut in one direction, like a file. If you press down while you're hacking back and forth with it, you're just going to ruin the blade and cut very little.

Something I see a lot of people do, is put their material in a vise with the area to be cut far away from the jaws. You want your cut to be made as close to the vise jaws as you can safely do (yes, this will often mean moving the material as you go) or otherwise the metal just flexes back and forth.

Just like with a lathe and a mill, your work needs to be securely fixtured to file or saw through it efficiently.

Ryan, a metal cutting saw will cut wood, you just have to be careful or your chips (saw dust) will load up in the cut. Wood should be sawn with a coarser pitch blade and at much faster speeds... but it can be cut on a metal band saw.
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how do you select the proper blade? I've just been using bi-metal blades. haven't found a big selection of blades anywhere.
 
Munky, just FWIW, I thought your post above about hacksawing was hilarious. Reminds me a lot of my first several times using one! :)

So I hope my post just came across as informational, and not condescending... as I've definitely been in your shoes before :D

In theory, the GENERAL rule of thumb is to have 3 teeth in your material at all times while making a cut. That's a general guide, and won't always work out. In application, you usually go with as coarse of a blade as you can, as it will take a big bite, AND clear the chips from the cut.

For most knife tasks...let's say you're cutting 1/8" thick O1. A quality blade like Lenox or Starrett, with a 14-18 vari-tooth will easily cut the steel and leave a nice finish. This fits roughly into the theory, but more so from real life experience.

If you cut thin sheet, like for spacers, you want a fine pitch, as sheet material will tear and strip teeth from a blade with coarse pitch.

Cheap blades are not worth the "savings."

I have a Jet 7X12 bandsaw, a DeWalt portaband, and a Jet 4X6 bandsaw, and I still use my Craftsman cam-lock hacksaw with Lenox blades fairly often. :)
 
i have been woodworking for 6 years and have lived without a bandsaw or a drill press,
get a leatherman wave,there has not been a single thing i have built in the last 2 years without using it at least 5 times
 
lk3331 said:
i have been woodworking for 6 years and have lived without a bandsaw or a drill press,
get a leatherman wave,there has not been a single thing i have built in the last 2 years without using it at least 5 times
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You're right!!! A Leatherman Wave is basically a woodworking shop and metalworking shop in one, small, convenient package!!! I feel so silly for not thinking of that.
 
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