Toologic - Deadly weapon?????

D

Dennis Wright

Joined
Jan 19, 1999
Messages
842
I just had a fellow walk into my shop looking for information about court cases relating to pocket tools. Seems he was arrested in La Mesa, CA and spent Memorial Day weekend in jail because he had a Toologic pocket tool in his wallet. The cop said he was carrying a concealed weapon. The guy was arrested on a felony charge and held on $10,000.00 bail until his arraignment. The judge dropped it to a misdemeanor and set a trial date. I think the guy was expecting it to have been thrown out. (I would have too and no, he didn't hire a lawyer.) Now this guy has to go to court and, basically, prove his innocence.

Question for you laywer types out there: How can a 1&7/8" blade, tucked into a creditcard type holder, tucked into a wallet, carried in the back pocket, be considered "readily capable for use as a stabbing weapon that can cause great bodily harm or death"???? I know what the law says but I didn't think anyone would consider one of these things as meeting those requirements.

I don't know this guy or what led up to his arrest but he isn't the "gang banger type" (whatever that is) or some young looking punk. He didn't seem to fit any profile that I would think would cause the cop to shake him down. That isn't my concern anyway.

What does concern me is the fact that the bust was made over a stupid little credit card type tool kit carried in a wallet. I don't carry any of these things in stock right now but I have been considering it. I do have the Spydercard in stock. I don't want my customers getting into trouble if carrying one of them will do that.

Maybe someone from Toologic would like to comment if they're members of AKTI?
 
Dennis, is he being charged with concealing a dirk or dagger? If he is then he should argue that, because of how it was carried, it was not readily available. Some of those credit card tool kits have the knife designed like a push dagger, if that's how they're charging it (i.e., as metal knuckles 12020 c7) then he'll have to argue that it's a tool and not a weapon.

The Spydercard would be legal either way as it's a folding knife.
 
Hi Jason. Long time no see. How have you been?

Good point about the Spydercard being a folder. I hadn't considered that. One of those obious details that are so easy to overlook because it is so obvious. Duh.

As for the specific charges against this fellow, I don't have enough details to answer that. Needless to say, he was pretty agitated when he came in the store. All he said was that the cop arrested him because he told him (the cop) that he didn't want him to search his car.

The story goes like this:
The guy said that he left a bar in La Mesa where he had been shooting pool and drove to his girlfriend's house in San Diego, on El Cajon Blvd. Apparently this was on Friday evening, of Memorial Day Weekend because he said he had to sit in jail for four days, 'til his arraignment.

He said the cop had followed him from the bar to his destination. After he parked the car and was walking up to his girlfriend's house, the officer called out to him, by name, and said that he wanted to talk to him so he walked back to his car, where the cop was standing. He said that the cop then asked him a bunch of questions about where he had been and what he had been doing. He also said that the cop had obviously already run his license plate because he called him by name. He had never met this cop before.

During the questioning, the cop asked him if he could search his car. He says that he asked the cop what his options were. The cop supposedly told him that he had the right to say no. He said that in that case, he did not want his car searched and refused permission for the cop to go into his car. He said that the cop then told him, "then you're under arrest", handcuffed him and began searching the car anyway.

I asked the guy what the cop said he was under arrest for but I didn't get a clear answer. He said that he asked but the cop just told him that he was under arrest and to shut up. He said the cop started tearing the car apart and kept telling him that if he had just given permission for the search, he wouldn't be going through this and his car wouldn't have been torn apart so bad. I asked if he had asked the cop what he was looking for and he told me that the cop said he was looking for drugs, marijuana, cocaine or extasy. The guy claims that he doesn't do drugs and there were none in the car. He also claims that he was also not intoxicated.

After the cop searched the car and found nothing, he then searched the guy and found the toologic kit in the man's wallet. When he pulled the little knife out of the card, the fellow said the cop told him that he was under arrest for carrying a "dangerous weapon". That was the word the guy used so I don't know exactly what the cop said.

He was taken to jail, booked on a felony weapons charge and stayed there 'till his arraignment because he didn't have the $10,000 bail. He said that he figured that the judge would throw the case out once he saw that the "weapon" was a toologic card but that didn't happen. Apparently the judge had no idea what a toologic was and, since there was no picture or example of the item, the judge simply went on the word of the cop and bound him over for trial. He claimed that he had a PD assigned and that the PD knew what a toologic was but wasn't able to explain it to the judge. I suppose the judge wasn't interested anyway, after a long weekend and a full jail to clear. It was a video arraignment. The guy was never in the courtroom and there was no face-to-face meeting with the judge. He did say the judge reduced the charge to a misdemenor and either lowered the bail or released him OR but now the guy has to go to court.

That"s the story as it was told to me and as I remember it. The guy was pretty upset because, he said, that he has no police record and doesn't want to have one now. He was also afraid that he might have to go to jail. I told him that he should hire a lawyer but he said that he didn't want to spend all that money when he didn't do anything wrong. Can't blame him for that but he's liable to talk himself right into the pokey if he goes in there alone. I told him that he could always sue to get his money back after he won.

I asked the fellow to let me know how it turns out. He said he would but we'll see.

I said, basically, the same thing, Jason, about the "readily available" aspect, and also the argument as to whether it's a tool or a weapon but I honestly don't know what code he was charged under.

Obviously, I've related only one side of the tale. I'm sure the officer has another version. Unfortunately, knowing some of the cops around here, I'm inclined to lean in the direction of the defendant in this case. Besides, a Toologic card? 1&7/8" blade? C'mon. Even switchblades are legal in this state if the blade's under 2". But, like I told the guy, logic doesn't carry much weight when you're up against the law and someone who wants to use it as a weapon against you. It's a tough world out there, sometimes.

I'll keep you posted if I get any feedback from the guy.

Nice to see you're still around, Jason. Stop in and say "hey" next time you're in town.
 
Dennis,

I'll definitely stop by next time I'm in town. Probably sometime this summer.

If the guy comes back in before his trial, tell him to look over 12020, "dirk or dagger" and "metal knuckles;" it's gotta be one of those. He might also be able to find out from the PD or the court what PC he was charged under, which would be the best place to start. He was carrying a concealed fixed blade, and the courts have been pretty inconsistent as to how they interpret that.

Not all of the links will work, but you might be able to find some of the 12020 dirk or dagger case histories here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000902000214/www.chaicutlery.com/knifelaw.html
 
In general, concealed fixed blades in California are illegal. The structure of the law is: You cannot carry anything concealed that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. That's basically all knives. There are exceptions for certain folding knives and "pocketknives" (pocketknife has an unclear definition). There's no exception for a concealed fixed blade, regardless of length. Violation can be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. This guy is lucky that he's looking at a misdemeanor.

A recent California case, In re Luke W. (2001) Cal.App.4th
[No. A090906. First Dist., Div. Five. Apr. 23, 2001], held that a credit card-type multi tool that contained a small, fixed blade knife did not violate California's concealed knife law:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/archive/A090906.DOC

The guy who's being charged (better: his lawyer) should try to draw as many comparisons as possible between his situation and this case. It could save his ass. The court in the In re Luke W. case based its decision on how difficult it was for the defendant to retrieve the knife from the multi-tool. The court declared this type of knife a legal pocketknife.

If this guy you met could grab his credit card knife much more quickly, his judge may decide not to follow the ruling of this case. Check out the text of the case - it's easy reading and informative.

For a great user page on California Knife Laws by Bladeforumer Jim March, check out: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html

ADDENDUM: I just looked up the Toologic on the web. In re Luke W. could be very helpful to him. They sound very similar. I hope this guy has a lawyer, and that you have a chance to talk to him before his trial.

Regards,

Johnny
 
Thanks Jonny. I also hope that he comes back in. I will definitely pass this on to him if he does. In fact, I think this was the information that he was looking for because he originally asked for a copy of Blade Magazine that had an artical on either this case or a similar one. Unfortunately, I didn't have that issue in the store.

I appreciate all of the help here folks. If it dosen't do this guy any good it just might help keep someone else out of a jam.

Thanks again.
 
Jason, thanks for pointing this out.

I found pics of the Toologic critter here:

http://www.sebertool.co.uk/acatalog/AdventureKIT_Noir_4.html

First thing, I don't think that can be called a "punchdagger" and "brass knuckles" doesn't even pass a basic giggle test.

I agree completely with the basic ideas already mentioned in this thread as defenses.

In addition, I'd argue that the legislature consistently doesn't give a damn about very small blades, especially under 2".

Example: in Penal Code 653k, switchblades under 2" are declared legal for carry. Even better, while PC12020 bans "any belt buckle knife", in section 13 it clarifies this:

"(13) As used in this section, a "belt buckle knife" is a knife
which is made an integral part of a belt buckle and consists of a
blade with a length of at least 2 1/2 inches."

Now, that's a concealed FIXED blade that can be up to 2.45" long. This critter is under 2".

So I'd argue that regardless of what it is, even if they class it as a switchblade somehow, it's still legal as heck because of it's extremely small size.

I was surprised that the "In Re Luke W" case JohnnyLightOn gave a link to did NOT mention this logic. Instead, the court said that this thing was functionally equivelent to a Swiss Army Knife, especially since it needed a two-handed operation to get it in action. But that piece had a blade just over 2", this one is just under. Given the switchblade length, I'd play this "too short to worry about" card too. (And yes, you can

There's no proper cite yet for the Luke case, and UBB chops the URL - I highly recommend Dennis Wright print this thread out and hand it to this poor dude so that he can give it to his lawyer, or worst case the DA, see if they'll fold. The URL to the Luke case starts with "www." and finishes with:

courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/archive/A090906.DOC

That way, somebody can find it based on a printout of this thread. It's an appelate court decision, therefore "binding precident", except that this is a different credit-card toolkit. Meaning the trial court must take the logic of the Luke case into account, especially if they find that the Toologic critter needs two hands to bring it into play.
 
Would the small knife in the Victorinox Swisscard also be under the "fixed" blade category?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top