Toothy or polished for a working edge?

[singularity35]

I prefer 600 grit for general purpose, polished for wood, and 300-400 grit if I'm anticipate cutting a lot of abrasive media. So basically, I tailor my edge to the task I anticipate.

 

[Monofletch]

Toothy works better for me. Mirror edge looks awesome, but all my users finish at about 600-800 and a few swipes with green compound.

 

[David Martin]

My vote is for toothy edge around 300 grit. DM

 

[evanPGH]

Depends on the knife/steel.

My M390 folder will get a Spyderco fine stone finish and something like my W2 fixed gets an ultra fine. I generally prefer toothier edges on super steels and polished on carbon steels.

 

[Charr]

Depends on the knife/steel.

My M390 folder will get a Spyderco fine stone finish and something like my W2 fixed gets an ultra fine. I generally prefer toothier edges on super steels and polished on carbon steels.

This is an extremely valid point. Some steels in different categories will perform much differently with a toothy or a polished edge.
M390 is a bit of na exception, as it really works well with either, and I carry 2 knives in it that have a toothy (shirogorov) and a polished (Diskin) edge each. They both work very well, and will perform about the same, though the obvious differences that are inherent between them in some materials are still there. I also usually pair them either one with a knife in 154cm that has a polished edge as well, as it is easier to repair and I don't mind using it on tougher or dirtier materials.

Steels in the classification of "super steel" (aka high-carbide steels and advanced Nitorgen steels) often work much better depending on the edge type applied to them. A prominent example of this is Rockstead's ZDP-189, which has one of the most exceptional polished edges available from anyone. At the hardness that Rockstead treats their ZDP-189 to, I would never recomend a rougher or toothy edge, as it will encourage chipping.
On the flip side, steels like S90V, which have a lot of very large and extremely hard carbides work much better with a toothy edge. S90V specifically has better performance with a toothy edge if you ask me. The immense amount of effort required to polish it, and the speed at which that polished edge will become toothy also add to the fact that it works better to strat toothy.
S110V has better performance as a polished edge in my opinion, because it is more prone to micro-chipping at optimal hardness.
I also tend to like 3V, 4V, and M4 with polished edges, though those also perform well in a toothy edge from what I've seen (depending on hardness in regards to M4).
Also, most nitrogen stainless steels (Vanax, N690, Z-FiNit, etc.) tend to work much better with a polished edge, mostly because of the very fine stucture in them, and the odd way they tend to react to polishing.

I think for my EDC purposes, the toothy edge and the steels that work with it both generally are more suited, but I also always carry a combination of the 2, as well as a combination or 2 different steel types purposely. Not only because it is functional for the variety of materials I cut in a day, but also because I enjoy learning the characteristics of steels in contrast to one-another.


I do agree that most carbon steels tend to also work better as a polished edge.

 

[ebidis]

This is an extremely valid point. Some steels in different categories will perform much differently with a toothy or a polished edge.
M390 is a bit of na exception, as it really works well with either, and I carry 2 knives in it that have a toothy (shirogorov) and a polished (Diskin) edge each. They both work very well, and will perform about the same, though the obvious differences that are inherent between them in some materials are still there. I also usually pair them either one with a knife in 154cm that has a polished edge as well, as it is easier to repair and I don't mind using it on tougher or dirtier materials.

Steels in the classification of "super steel" (aka high-carbide steels and advanced Nitorgen steels) often work much better depending on the edge type applied to them. A prominent example of this is Rockstead's ZDP-189, which has one of the most exceptional polished edges available from anyone. At the hardness that Rockstead treats their ZDP-189 to, I would never recomend a rougher or toothy edge, as it will encourage chipping.
On the flip side, steels like S90V, which have a lot of very large and extremely hard carbides work much better with a toothy edge. S90V specifically has better performance with a toothy edge if you ask me. The immense amount of effort required to polish it, and the speed at which that polished edge will become toothy also add to the fact that it works better to strat toothy.
S110V has better performance as a polished edge in my opinion, because it is more prone to micro-chipping at optimal hardness.
I also tend to like 3V, 4V, and M4 with polished edges, though those also perform well in a toothy edge from what I've seen (depending on hardness in regards to M4).
Also, most nitrogen stainless steels (Vanax, N690, Z-FiNit, etc.) tend to work much better with a polished edge, mostly because of the very fine stucture in them, and the odd way they tend to react to polishing.

I think for my EDC purposes, the toothy edge and the steels that work with it both generally are more suited, but I also always carry a combination of the 2, as well as a combination or 2 different steel types purposely. Not only because it is functional for the variety of materials I cut in a day, but also because I enjoy learning the characteristics of steels in contrast to one-another.


I do agree that most carbon steels tend to also work better as a polished edge.

Good post:thumbup:

 

[ebidis]

I'm kind of surprised looking at the poll results. Toothy is edging out (pun intended) polished in popularity.

I was actually expecting it to go the other way.

 

[Charr]

Good post:thumbup:

Thank you sir!
I try to help people with all of the great stuff I've learned from here as much as I can, and I love threads like this
I always find there's just more and more to leanr though, so it's always changing!

 

[knives_in_nature]

This poll is kinda throwing me of.. I've always thought people preferred polished.

 

[Charr]

I'm kind of surprised looking at the poll results. Toothy is edging out (pun intended) polished in popularity.

I was actually expecting it to go the other way.

It doesn't surprise me as much more when I think about it for a few reasons:

1. Toothy edge is easier to achieve. Most people aren't going to have a Wicked Edge or Edge Pro, and polishing an edge by hand takes a lot of time and skill. Not to mention that getting to a true polish with a strop is definitely an aquired skill that many people take a lot of time to really get down. In addition to this, sending a knife out for sharpening often gets you a polished edge, but not many people like doing that of the overall community.

2. Toothy edge actually works better for most EDC materials. When I say this, I usually mean for most of the heavier materials that we need to use our knife for. Opening mail and such is easier with a hand than a knife many times, while taking down cardboard or working wood requires much more of a tool.

3. Polished edges are considered a refinement often. I wouldn't put a polished edge on a really cheap knife very often. Mainly because I know it would lose that edge too fast. More expensive knives often have them as an additional sign of quality from the maker, or are put on by the user becasue they prefer them. This means that the knife looks better, and is sometimes going to be used less-often because of that.

4. Toothy edges seem to be easier to maintain. Since you don't have to refine a polish, the toothy edge is much simpler to repair and touch-up form my experience. Sure, with continual care, a polished edge will never really lose it's polish, but that usually requires a nightly stropping, and some people just don't like doing it that often. Plus, the toothy edge "seems" to hold and edge longer. That last statement is not it's own point because that is a whole page of discussion that is not needed here right now

When I first saw the poll results I was really surprised too, but then I thought about these things, and it made a lot more sense. I have had the chance to polish up all of my edges before, but I never did, and these are a lot of the reasons for it.

This poll is kinda throwing me of.. I've always thought people preferred polished.

I think people love the look of a polished edge more (I know I do), but the knives we really get down and use every day tend to have a toothy edge for performance and ease of maintanance.

 

[ebidis]

It doesn't surprise me as much more when I think about it for a few reasons:

1. Toothy edge is easier to achieve. Most people aren't going to have a Wicked Edge or Edge Pro, and polishing an edge by hand takes a lot of time and skill. Not to mention that getting to a true polish with a strop is definitely an aquired skill that many people take a lot of time to really get down. In addition to this, sending a knife out for sharpening often gets you a polished edge, but not many people like doing that of the overall community.

2. Toothy edge actually works better for most EDC materials. When I say this, I usually mean for most of the heavier materials that we need to use our knife for. Opening mail and such is easier with a hand than a knife many times, while taking down cardboard or working wood requires much more of a tool.

3. Polished edges are considered a refinement often. I wouldn't put a polished edge on a really cheap knife very often. Mainly because I know it would lose that edge too fast. More expensive knives often have them as an additional sign of quality from the maker, or are put on by the user becasue they prefer them. This means that the knife looks better, and is sometimes going to be used less-often because of that.

4. Toothy edges seem to be easier to maintain. Since you don't have to refine a polish, the toothy edge is much simpler to repair and touch-up form my experience. Sure, with continual care, a polished edge will never really lose it's polish, but that usually requires a nightly stropping, and some people just don't like doing it that often. Plus, the toothy edge "seems" to hold and edge longer. That last statement is not it's own point because that is a whole page of discussion that is not needed here right now

When I first saw the poll results I was really surprised too, but then I thought about these things, and it made a lot more sense. I have had the chance to polish up all of my edges before, but I never did, and these are a lot of the reasons for it.



I think people love the look of a polished edge more (I know I do), but the knives we really get down and use every day tend to have a toothy edge for performance and ease of maintanance.

All valid points, and I agree. The poll however, asks the question "what do you prefer?", not what do you use out of necessity, lack of time, etc.

Maybe a polished edge is just a cork sniffing snob kind of thing?





DISCLAIMER: the snob remark was sarcasm, written in jest. I in no means mean to insinuate that any BF member is a cork sniffer.

 

[grownstar]

I prefer a toothy edge, but a mirror polished edge gets the ladies

 

[Charr]

All valid points, and I agree. The poll however, asks the question "what do you prefer?", not what do you use out of necessity, lack of time, etc.

Maybe a polished edge is just a cork sniffing snob kind of thing?





DISCLAIMER: the snob remark was sarcasm, written in jest. I in no means mean to insinuate that any BF member is a cork sniffer.

that cork sniffer thing is hilarious...alright, now that I've picked myself up off the floor,

I think that we end up prefering what works best...at least I would hope. I tend to like something more maybe in the beginning, but in this case, I came to like toothy edges more because they work better for some of my favorite steels, and they are much easier to maintain. I still like polished edges, but I ended up prefering a toothy edge on some knives because of the necessity and the convinience.

I wouldn't say it is only a "cork sniffing" thing either, at least not for most of us. Sure, some poeple are more likely to like a knife because it has a polished edge, but some steels really do just perform better with it, and I'm sure some people like it more as well in perfromance.
My S110V EDC fixed blade (carry it mainly on weekends) is much nicer with a polished edge in my opinion, and I wouldn't want to put a coarse edge on S110V. Firstly, the edge would chip too easily in all likelyhood. Secondly, I mainly use that knife for food prep and fine slicing work. Both of those things are not suited for a toothy edge in my experience.

Shiny things ARE shiny though

 

[TheChunk91]

I polish most of my edges up to 6K, because why not. But certain knives and steels I leave it at 600, like s110v and s90v are very aggressive at 600 which is enjoyable, or knives that are only used for really hard work that I dont want to put the extra labor into polishing. In between 600 and 6K I do 1K for cheaper stuff like my cold steels, budget kershaws, budget spydercos and whatnot just cause I dont feel like going all the way to 6K, those EPA polishing tapes dont last forever haha.

 

[Nic S.]

I used to obsess over the edge of my knives, but I've kind of gotten over it. I think it was the arrival of our third child 9 months ago that did it lol. I find I don't have the time to worry about it as much. I will just touch up the edge on a ceramic bench stone then strop it, if I can push cut magazine paper Im happy.

 

[Charr]

I polish most of my edges up to 6K, because why not. But certain knives and steels I leave it at 600, like s110v and s90v are very aggressive at 600 which is enjoyable, or knives that are only used for really hard work that I dont want to put the extra labor into polishing. In between 600 and 6K I do 1K for cheaper stuff like my cold steels, budget kershaws, budget spydercos and whatnot just cause I dont feel like going all the way to 6K, those EPA polishing tapes dont last forever haha.

I think this is a pretty good plan.
I do want to ask what the S110V you have is, and if you know what the hardness on it is. I've heard and had mixed epxeriences on it with a rough edge, especially with micro-chipping. I like the aggressive cutting performance it gains that way (much like M390), but I have always had chipping as a result of the toothy edges, so maybe my blades are just set at too high of a hardness (they range 61-63).
S90V does definitely just eat everything you can throw at it with a toothy edge though

 

[ebidis]

I think that we end up prefering what works best...

I think your right. For example, edge geometry. I used to put very thin edges on my knives, but I kept rolling/chipping edges every time I used them. Now I go between 30° and 40° inclusive, depending on the blade. I find this works much better on my EDC knives.

I usually do not like factory edges at all, so I usually sharpen them to my preference. I sharpen everything free hand, unless it needs serious reprofiling, and I eventually end up with a convex edge, which works excellently. I usually go about 600 grit, and then touch it up on 1000 grit ceramic stone. This leaves me a slightly toothy edge which I find it works really well. If I want a more aggressive age, I will just stop at the 600 grit. I will polish some edges, depending on the blade and how I feel that particular knife should be. Most of the time if I can cut phonebook paper, and shave arm hair I'm good with it.

 

[collim1]

I want mine polished as high as I have the patience for. That can vary a lot depending in how much time I have to work on it and what blade steel I am working with, but the higher the better.

The only exception is my old CRKT Edgie. Years ago I stocked in a grocery store and hated those cheap old razor knifes for opening boxes. I got an Edgie and found it ripped through cardboard and begged for more.

 

[22-rimfire]

I suppose that if given a choice, I would prefer a polished hair popping edge. But the reality is that I do both and use both.

 

[Charr]

I think your right. For example, edge geometry. I used to put very thin edges on my knives, but I kept rolling/chipping edges every time I used them. Now I go between 30° and 40° inclusive, depending on the blade. I find this works much better on my EDC knives.

I usually do not like factory edges at all, so I usually sharpen them to my preference. I sharpen everything free hand, unless it needs serious reprofiling, and I eventually end up with a convex edge, which works excellently. I usually go about 600 grit, and then touch it up on 1000 grit ceramic stone. This leaves me a slightly toothy edge which I find it works really well. If I want a more aggressive age, I will just stop at the 600 grit. I will polish some edges, depending on the blade and how I feel that particular knife should be. Most of the time if I can cut phonebook paper, and shave arm hair I'm good with it.

That's pretty similar to my sharpening system, but I use a WE. Mainly I use it because I try out a ton of different steels and want sonsistent edge geometry as much as possible, but it's also just a little easier for me and seems to take less time personally. I like the V-ground edges, but I really don't thinks there's a specific reason for that. Convex edges ca perform insanely well though. I love them, but have trouble maintaining one done by someone else. My own convew edges I have no trouble with though. It's probably just the way I orient my hands.

Pretty much the same method though: up to 600, then 1000. If it's M390, I also take a couple of swipes with the 800 grit stones, then use the strop a little bit to just lightly finish the edge after the 1000. Since it has an insanely fine grain structure and carbides, M390 can take a little finer finish than most and still retain the performance of a 600 grit toothy edge. Since I take it that little bit farther, it holds the edge longer, and MAN is it aggressive! Eaily the most aggressive steel I've ever handled. You can't even test it like you do other steels, where you cut a material until you reach a certain force required to cut, because it just acts differently.
Not many steels I stop at 600 for, but there are a couple (hello again S90V).

The stuff (M390) is very fun to play around with, and performs better than just about any stainless I've handled in overall properties. Others outclass it individually in specific traits, but its the most balanced stianless I've found so far (that is atainable).

EDIT: I will say that my edges usually pop hair easily, and if you try it with a polished edge I've done, you can literally shave for the morning with it (I have before), but if you try it with one of my rougher edges in M390 (the one I described above), then you better not let it touch your skin at all. It will bite in even when you're just barely touching the edge to the surface of the skin. It's a little alarming how little it takes to make it dig into material and start biting.