Torch for heat treat?

U

UPSTARTCROWE

Joined
Oct 17, 1999
Messages
122
Is there a particular brand/style/size of torch to use to heat treat my O-1? I am a first timer and don't know what type to buy or borrow. My blades are all under 10 inches. Oh, can I get a "rosebud" tip at a hardware store?
 
I think most people who are getting into knifemaking for the first time start out with simple propane torches that you can get at any hardware store/Wal-Mart, etc.
I'm fairly new at this also, and am having pretty good luck with this system. I started out using only one torch but after reading a post here on the forum bought a second one to use at the same time. The key is patience and heating the blade evenly.
Equally important is to get some firebricks, or something similiar, to build a small enclosure so that the heat from the torches reflects back on to the blade. It doesn't take long to get any given area of the blade to red/orange heat but the trick is to get the entire blade hot enough, so you have to keep the flames moving along the length of the blade. (Remember you don't have to heat the entire knife, only the blade and the first inch or so of the handle area, some only heat the area along the edge.) This can be accomplished, even with only one torch, with a little ingenuity and patience.
Because of the problem with getting the entire blade hot enough all at the same time, I just purchased two "jumbo flame" propane torches at Lowe's to see if the wider flame helps with a more even heat. Haven't used them yet but will try within the week as soon as I get the L6 hunter/utility I'm making ready for treating. Good luck!-Guy Thomas
 
you guys would be better off to have some one do it that knows how to do it right you will never do a 10 inch blade with a torch and do it right

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All that is not Given Is Lost
 
Hello,

I do 13 inch bowie blades with my oxy acetyl torch just fine. Its all in the technique,, 8-) and a big roesbud!!

getting consistant results with a torch isnt hard, its just repetability of the technique involved is all. On bigger blades i have a Propane forced air forge i built that does lardger blades, and i also recently aquired a Vetrinarian Crematorium Forge Burner, that is big enough to do 5 or 6 swords at a time, its huge.

my .02

Allen

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Allen Blade
Spokane,WA USA

" You can make great knives and sell a few, Or make Great AFFORDABLE knives and sell many"
WEB SITE : http://hometown.aol.com/bladecutlery/index.html
 
If you are talking about oxy/acetylene torch, get a victor, good torch and parts are available, often you can find tips or complete torchs at fleamarkets and pawnshops. With practice you can learn to do 10" blades. We are talking about carbon steel right? Check the welding supply in your area often they will have specials on the complete set and bottles. You got to buy gas from them anyway,then you can decide on new or making up a used set from the second hand shops. Oh yeah, use a magnet!
 
I don't believe that you will be able to use a propane torch to do what you want to do, it will not get hot enough. Propane will work in a forge/oven but that is with forced draft air (blower) and insulation.

In my opinion, Mr. Weinard has sound advice, if you want it done properly. He has heat treated carbon steel for many years.

Now Allen, what about that veterinarian crematorium thing ?!?

C Wilkins


[This message has been edited by C L Wilkins (edited 06-18-2000).]
 
Well, after reading some of the other posts on this subject, I would have to agree that the best option is to have someone else do your heat treat for you, especially if you are not concerned about making your knife entirely by yourself.
If you want to experiment yourself, then you can do the simpler carbon steels with torches. The oxyacetylene set-up is used by many knife makers. A propane forge or a heat treating oven is even better in my opinion, but you are talking about spending some money for the equipment.
Propane torches are cheap, but they are frustrating to use (especially the larger the knife gets) and you may not get the optimal results, but they do work.
It's pretty much like any other aspect of knifemaking, do you want to use $5.00 files or a $1,000.00 belt grinder. I'd prefer the grinder but can't justify the expenditure yet. In the mean time I couldn't put a price tag on what I'm learnig by making knive with files.
The same is true of the heat treating oven (around a $1,000.00) and an oxyacetylene rig also will cost at least a few hundred dollars to set up (but, as previously mentioned) you might find a good used one much cheaper).
It won't be much longer before I've given up propane torches entirely. I have an oxyacetylene torch kit but even renting the tanks are proving to be a bit more expensive than anticipated. A good bet is building a propane forge of some type, this can be relatively inexpensive and is very effective and an added benefit would be the ability to forge blades also. I'll be like my screen name now and shut-up!-Guy Thomas
 
I, don't beleive it can't be done? Will it be a better heat treat if someone else does it? Maybe. Is it easier to do it with a heat treat oven? Yes. Many full time makers use a torch for heat treat. Would I pass up a chance for a maker to show me how? Not on your life. I beleive it's part of the learning experience to do it by yourself. Yes, you can heat treat small blades with a propane torch,if you build a small forge from a coffe can lined with Kaowool or a one brick forge like Wayne Goddard's. It is even possible to heat treat a blade in a campfire or barbeque if you have a little knowledge of the hardening process. Now please don't think this is an invitation to a knife fight. It's my opinion.
 
Get an old gas barbeque regulator, tank and hose. Get a cast iron pipe and some copper tubing. Then get a dozen or so firebricks. Make one of these.
<img src=http://www.freespeech.org/oz/forge1.jpg>
<img src=http://www.freespeech.org/oz/forge2.jpg>
I've made a better design of forge since then that's far more efficient, but the box o bricks works great for heat treating, it just takes a bit longer to get up to heat, which is less stressful on the steel, anyway.


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Oz

"I'm politically opposed to the word 'Impossible'."
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
Hey Upstart! I've got what you want. I got the tip from a sword maker at a rennissance festival and have been using it for the last year. Its a propane torch from Harbor freight that hooks up to a grill tank. Its got a two foot wand with a 3" barrell on the end and a lever activated air venturi. You turn the knob on top to adjust your gas flow then squeeze the lever and it sucks air and throws a 4 foot long 8 inch diameter flame.
I build my little oven out of dry layed fire brick, make a couple of little stands out of clothes hanger to hold the blade upright in there, aim and blast away! It will take the blade up to non-magnetic in a few minutes (evenly, no waving of small torch flames, been there, done that, didn't like it).
You can find harbor freight online. The torch costs about $20.00. I've made about thirty knives with it in the past year and love it.
Good Luck!!
 
Happycat, sound great. How do you check to see if it's non-magnetic? I know you are supposed to touch the heated blade with a magnet but do you attach the magnet to a coat hanger and reach in to the fire?
 
I've got one of those torches, it's what I used before we built the forge. I still use it for all kinds of stuff, it's great for when you need a lot of BTUs pumped into something.
For checking critical temperature, get a magnet from an auto parts store. They have them on a telescoping antennae sort of thing that fits into your pocket. They're for picking up parts off the floor or deep inside an engine when you've dropped them, and they cost about four bucks U.S. You can also hard-mount a magnet near your heat source and touch the blade to it when you pull it out of the heat, but I like the telescoping magnet.

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Oz

"I'm politically opposed to the word 'Impossible'."
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
Thanks Osborne! I gotta get me one of those. I like the idea of mounting a magnet outside too although I'm not sure I want to keep taking the blade out and putting it back in (lazy you know).

For upstart: With this torch set up you just leave off of the trigger and point it away (its hand held) when you go in with the magnet. It seems to be pretty economical on the gas too as you only have it on when you're blasting. I just ran out of gas for the first time since last summer, and I've been usingthe same tank on my barbacue!
 
Osborne, I am very interested in building a propane forge like yours with basic firebrick and the grill regulator.

I read up on your forge from your site and now I have a couple of qestions.

1. How did you connect the propane hose from the regulator to the pipe to feed your forge. Is there a special fitting that you made. If you have any pictures that would be great.

2. On your site you refer to the blowdryer that you have attached to the end of the pipe closest to the propane tank. Can you feel me in on what you use it for. Is it used as a form of Bellows fot feed the fire and propell the propane into the forge??

Any pictures and info would be great and if anyone else has info on how to create an inexpensive forge I would appreciate it. I will mostly use mine for heating blades for primitave forging and some heat treating.

Thanks Jim


Dt_trainer@consultant.com



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The warrior will endure great personal hardship in order to stand on a hill, howl at the moon, and proclaim his domain over all he surveys. Fredrick Lovert- Author
 
Dt_trainer and upstartcrowe,

In a way, I've got to agree with happycat. The Harbor Freight Propane Torch (item #36346-0cdh in the spring 2000 catalog) for $19.99 is pretty hard to beat. Its official use is for melting ice off sidewalks and driveways. It has a flow valve and turboblast trigger. Next day & 2nd day air delivery is available (1-800-423-2567 to order). I haven't bought one, but probably will rather than make another burner. There is a risk factor when you make your own and its real hard to beat whats availible for $20. But if you really want the details how we did it, I can email them to you. And maybe Oz will take some close-up pictures.
 
I need to take some pics of the new forge design anyway, so I'll probably take some closeups of the burner while I'm at it. The new forge is based on some of Don Foggs designs with the forced air burner.

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Oz

"I'm politically opposed to the word 'Impossible'."
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
The mother lode of forge design. www.webpak.net/~rreil/Forge.htm

One other hint if you are building a brick forge get the soft brick it heats up quicker. Also sometimes you can get a real deal on busted brick, and it will not make a difference in a stacked forge anyway.
 
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