Torn Between Two Times

G

Gautier

Joined
Aug 31, 2006
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Figured I'd start a bit of a gear discussion here. Now, me personally, I'm a bit of a paradox when it comes to woods-bumming gear. You're just as likely to find me out in poly/acrylic blend, gortex, and nylon fabrics as you are to see me in my old waxed cotton pants and wool shirt and watch cap. This got me to thinking, since I know some here are purists and, dare I say, have a predilection for the primitive. Whereas, others are more high-speed/low-drag in their choice of gear and opt for manmade fabrics and more technologically advanced gear.
I realize that each has characteristics "pro et contra", and the pragmatist in me tends to borrow a bit from each side. I sometimes would like to go one way or another though, if for no other reason than aesthetics. I'm wondering how many of you feel the same way. Or do you just forego form for function when it comes to this sort of thing?
For instance, I appreciate MtnFolkMike's(believe that's correct) sort of folksy, traditional approach. I'm always pleased to look at his leatherwork and really adore that stag handled blade of his. While on the other hand I also appreciate the function of MOLLE packs and a laminated Fallkniven F1.
Maybe it's the fact that I feel I owe something to those who came before me, and so, try to carry on tradition. Maybe it's that I just enjoy the plain, no nonsense approach to the old gear I have. Whatever it is, something keeps drawing me back to the gear that was used in a "simpler time", while the rest of me still fights to keep up with the current times.
So, let's hear it. Am I the only dinosaur that feels lost? Any purists out there? Those that swear only by the latest and greatest innovations? I'd like to hear your take on the matter.


Gautier
 
Function, for the most part, over form. I have no problem w/ things because they are old, but do not necessarily feel they are better because they are old.
Wool is good, in my view, for my purposes. Flint and steel are pointless, in my view, for my purposes. I take whatever has the strengths I need, without getting too caught up in what age/style it belongs in. I carry a Bic, firesteel, and REI matches for fire. I carry two swedish knives for cutting tools along w/ a Bahco saw. I also carry LED flashlights and a headlamp along w/ extra batts.
Figure out what you need, and carry it. I do not particularly need flint and steel, charcloth, or a pelican case for an Ipod.
I do take TP, a silnylon poncho, diamond sharpener, and a Brusletto in a leather sheath.
 
Thanks for the quick reply and feedback, Any Cal. I think I'm in the same boat at the moment as far as function over form, but was wondering just how many others like a bit of "continuity" in their gear.
I know I certainly feel a bit odd at times dressed like a 19th century lumberjack carrying 21st century cutlery and 1000 denier nylon webbing gear with a polymer framed pistol.
The one qualm I have with the synthetics(aside from the occasional fashion clash) is fire retardance. Never had a piece of wool clothing ruined from a stray coniferous ember, but I've ruined a 50 dollar pair of synthetic pants from just such a thing. So, I realize there are tradeoffs for each. Definitely interested in hearing more views on the "old .vs. new" aspect of woods loafing gear. I'm sorely tempted to take the plunge back into the dark ages, but can't help but realize the benefits of some things.


Gautier
 
Definitely form follows function. Like both of you, I borrow from both camps, although my ultimate skill objectives are entirely primitive.

Doc
 
Most of the "old-time" styles and materials we're referring to here date from the very recent past, and were an improvement over their immediate predecessors. These people would have been quite pleased to use whatever technical fabrics were superior for their purposes.

Except for our hardcore frontiersmen who took a lot from the Indians, most colonial styles were basically the same, whether for the home, the office, or the farm. The home or office might have used lighterweight or more expensive materials, but not by much.

You can find pictures of cowboys right off the range in their working clothes that look suspiciously like sports (riding) jackets and bowlers or fedoras.
 
Whatever works the best. Gore-tex is great, but the shell might shred apart if you are using it in the backwoods for too long. A lot of "woodchucks" (backwoodsmen) stick with the ol' rubberized rain gear, or even waxed or oiled leather. For me, wool is still the best stuff out there ref. insulation close, or right next, to your skin. All that newer High-Tech polypro stuff is great for short periods, but for extended outdoor use, wool is still king.
I'm forging my own knives now, so I like using HC steel and tool steels, but, I have a FFD2 Goddard, and there is just no comparison as far as that new technology goes. I resent the fact that I can't reproduce it in my forge! :grumpy: But, that stuff surpasses anything I can make.
 
I don't know of I'd go so far as to resent certain steels, but I do recognize the benefits.I do admire that you're making blades though, which is more than I can say for myself. I love A2 and D2, for that matter 01, though I do appreciate a good corrosion resistant S30V or 154cm. Like I said, they all pose characteristics that are "pro et contra" in regards to wear and tear, edge retention, fire retardance, weight, insulation, etc.
I'm just trying to put out some feelers personally as to what "was carried" and what IS "popularly carried". I mean, our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers couldn't have gotten it all wrong by using wool, buck skin, and such. Afterall, we're here to tell the tale. Sometimes I think that it's a fine idea to get "back to basics" and examine the root of things, so to speak.
My wife is Navajo for instance, and this Thanksgiving, I spent an utterly apropos weekend of dining with the natives, the Dineh. It got me to thinking of how much we take for granted, and how much we rely on technology to keep us afloat.
I admit that driving onto the reservation I had a fair sized pack of fire starting, first aid, navigational, and basic equipment with me(as usual, my basic pack, even though I'd been on the reservation before). I thought to myself how much we've changed their culture, and how much they still retain theirs. Did I really need all the "modern equipment" I had?
They seemed to do fine by the "meager" means they had, and I began to wonder how they survived at all without the obvious sources of water. So, I thought, "Do I really need all these superfluous things?". I've always been a bit conflicted over the whole new .vs. old gear trends. I knew my Schrade Old Timer Stockman worked, I knew my wool blanket kept me warm, and so forth, but did I need it? I guess I'm at that crossroads of what matters and what doesn't. I've noticed my gear paring down, getting lighter and lighter, weeding out the unnecessary.
I definitely feel that skills trump gear, every time, and I've developed a fairly wide array(granted I'm always improving). I sometimes wonder though whether I should ditch all my modren gear for skills and a "somewhat primitive" gear set in the hopes of maybe saving weight and/or time.
I guess that's what this thread really comes down to, even though I left it a bit broad at the onset. It essentially is "Primitive .VS. Modern"


Gautier
 
Good thread. I too admit a pull between two times. I come from a family with strong ties to the Northwoods here in MN. All the old black and white photos show relatives in buffalo plaid heavy coats, real snowshoes, felt hats, hiking boots that lace up to the knee. I have my grandfathers flyrod and Marble's hunting knife from the '40's. I love all that stuff because it reminds me of simpler times. When I'm on a jaunt through the woods or vacationing on the North Shore, I'll have Willis & Geiger canvas daypack, Marble's pocketknife, old-timey compass and hip flask. When I'm on a 20-40 mile backpacking trip, it's all North Face and Marmot and items that are modern and lightweight. I love the Golden Age gear but it takes a back seat to modern stuff when weight and convenience are key.
I thought this was an intersting link. Conrad Anker recently spent time on Mt. Everest dressed in 1920's era clothing like Mallory and Irvine wore. I thought I read in another article (I can't seem to find it) that he was surprised at how well some of the clothing worked under such an extreme enviroment.

http://www.trailspace.com/news/2007/05/16/burberry-and-silk-climbing-everest-in-vintage-style.html

Also, there is a great store in Duluth that specializes in alot of the canvas packs and portaging items and old-timey Northwoods gear. They put out a neat catalog. http://www.duluthpack.com/
 
I know Im right somewhere in between. The nimravus is about as tactical as it gets, though I start my fires with sparks, about as primitive as it gets in my eyes. I carry a tarp from time to time, and usually a small pack with a cook pot, flash light, glowsticks and various others. Plus I have multipul firstaid kits, there is some disorder I have, when I get cut or something of the like, my body goes into shock, I get cold and have actually fainted a few times. Some thing I have to watch out for.
I dont do any major hiking, nor do I do 50km trek's in the unknowen. But I do explore, and take 2-4 day trips in the bush. And considering you can now get fined for not having a compass, two good ways to get a fire and a knife, lets just say I should sometimes get awards for what I carry. :D
 
Gautier, I can not only appreciate your minor bewilderment, but your ability to express yourself, too.

Remember what Henry David Thoreau said, "Simplify, simplify, simplify!"
 
Dr. Mudd said:
Henry David Thoreau said, "Simplify, simplify, simplify!"
Click to expand...

Thoreau lived on the edge of town, with friends stopping by for a visit all the time. It's easy to simplify when you can stroll down the road for what you need. Two or three days into the woods, you need to carry it all with you. :D
 
I find that I am moving towards more traditional looking blades...wood handles and the like..they just look and feel better. I have lots of micarta handled knives, and there is no denying that they are way tougher. As far as gear and methods...I would agree, knowing the old way and using the new way is THE WAY. Gene
EDIT: fantastic thread by the way...great conversation.
 
"I would agree, knowing the old way and using the new way is THE WAY"

this pretty much sums up my philosophy; apply old-timey knowledge and know-how to modern materials and scientific advances, and you are pretty much set.
 
Good thread. I guess I don't worry about the time period that much although I do prefer a traditional look and love to learn from history. Can't remember who made this quote but it fits modern man... "The one thing we have learned from history is that we have not learned from history."

Nonetheless, what drives me is a 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' mindset and do it in the most simplistic manner...

I practice primitive because I like too and they are good skills to know, but they are back up. I appreciate and carry modern methods for fire, shelter, and water. For example, I have used gourds for water but I am not giving up my steel cup and nalgene bottle. I can do friction fire, but you won't catch me without my ferro/magnesium rod, etc. I have some sort of plastic and/or mylar shelter with me just in case.
 
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