Totally new to Knives.. Sebenza or Umnumzaan??

red mag said:
Today you can learn a lot from the web and can safe time and money.
There is some experience you can skip.
If the solution fits you target ==> you'll need to find out yourself.
red mag
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Yes, he COULD save money... By not getting a sebenza!

You're missing my point. You think that I'm telling him he HAS to buy a lot of cheaper knives and build up to a sebenza, but that's not what I'm saying

I'm saying "because he isn't a knife guy, the benefits of a sebenza (the tight tolerances and excellent fit and finish) will be lost on him." A 100 dollar knife will serve the same purpose, but save him a lot of money, if he truly doesn't intend to be a knife enthusiast. He isn't missing out in getting "the best"... He's missing out on extra fit and finish that a non knife guy like him won't care about anyway. So why pay extra money? Just doesn't make sense to me
 
I followed a similar path that you are following. I've always had a few knives but when I saw a Sebenza in a YouTube video I knew I had to have one and the moment I ordered one was the moment this turned into a hobby for me. My CRKs are my favorites. I started with a Plain Large 21. I now have multiple 21s, 25s, and Umnumzaans in different variations -- insingo blade, handle inlays, carbon fiber scale, damascus blade, etc... I love them all and carry them all from time to time but lately I've been carrying the Zaan almost every day. I just love the blade shape and grind on the Zaan so it's getting a lot of use. The one I carry the least is the small 21 (I only have one small model). I generally prefer a larger knife so the small 21 doesn't get a lot of use.

Since it sounds like you're going to end up with more than one I'd recommend you start with the plain 21 like I did. Once you get more familiar with it you'll start to figure out what you like and don't like about it and which one you want next. If you were definitely only going to ever get one I'd recommend the Zaan just because that one seems a teeny tiny bit more appealing to me for an every day user.
 
Buy ALL of these knives, carry them alternately for a couple of Months, keep you two favorites and resell the rest here on Bladeforums.
Resale prices are excellent so you wont loose much money and you will really know you have exactly what you want:

Spyderco Southard
Zero Tolerance 0562cf
CRK Sebenza 25
CRK Sebenza 21
Benchmade 940 -CPM-S90V

I am sure there are other mid- high end suggestions that I have missed
 
Haggard,

By all means, if you want a Sebenza, buy a Sebenza. However, you may be a bit underwhelmed when you get it. Even though I had been collecting and using knives for years, my first Sebenza purchase left me feeling "meh..." It wasn't like I didn't have other high $ knives either. I already had two Strider SNGs and Several midtech / custom knives up to $800. Of course, I also had a ton of lower priced knives that I used and appreciated more.

Did the Sebenza out cut or out slice some of my Benchmades or Spydercos? Nope. Actually, the opposite was true. Don't get me wrong though. Now I have four Chris Reeve knives: a small carbon fiber Insingo, a small micarta Sebenza with damascus, a Mnandi with snake wood and damascus, and a large micarta Sebenza with damascus. I appreciate the craftsmanship behind the knives. However, those aren't necessarily the ones that make it into my pockets everyday.

My point is, there is no "one and done" get the best, finished in this hobby. The knife hobby is more of an evolution. That is part of the fun. Also, your personal taste and preferences will evolve over time, change back and forth, etc. If you go the "one and done" route, you won't get to experience the fun of experimenting with different steels, grinds, ergonomics, sizes, lock mechanisms, etc. My personal taste have changed a lot since I first started out in this hobby, almost 180 degrees from what I thought I liked at first.

Are Chris Reeve knives the best from a manufacturing, fit and finish perspective? Probably. Are they the best from an ergonomic, edge retention, slicing, carving, fun to play with perspective? Maybe not. There is no one knife to rule them all. Sometimes different task require different knives. That's all part of the fun.
 
I understand your want to get the best first and skip the build-up, but I'm not really sure it's the best route. I know due to my lack of funds I have not yet owned a CRK, but if they are half as good as this forum thinks they are they are you'll love whichever you buy. I feel if you got a few lower-end folders (e.g. a Leek, a Delica, a Grip, a ZT) when you end up getting the Sebenza you'll appreciate it a lot more.

If I had had the money to buy a Sebenza as soon as I discovered knives as a hobby, I probably would've done so. Now that I've owned a few other knives and used them, I'm not sure I would've appreciated a CRK as much as I would now. But, to each their own.
 
I have all three. Actually, I have seven different variations of the knives you mention, none alike.

My first was a plain 25, then went with a Micarta inlay 21. Then my first Umnumzaan, then an Insingo micarta 21, then an "old pivot" Umnumzaan, then a right handed Umnumzaan to match the first one (a left-handed model) then a Wilson Combat variation of the Umnumzaan (called a "Startac") and lastly a micarta-inlay 25. All in four months. So I can relate.

Of all of them, I prefer the Umnumzaan and the micarta inlay 25. I like the blade shape of the Umnumzaan the best, it just looks cool. But the micarta 25 is robust, good looking and is a great unit as well.

I can also relate to the 21 argument, it is a classy, thinner-appearing knife. I prefer the micarta inlays, they fit your hand a little better and just "feel" great.

I'll bet, as others have, that you'll own more than one. But I admire your thought process. You'll appreciate a CRK without having to buy a bunch of other knives first. I bought over 70 knives in two years once started in this hobby, and now I own more CRKs than any other brand. Benchmade, Spyderco and Emerson after that, but that's a different story. Back on topic.

I also agree, buy a knife you can practice sharpening on. A Mora knife is perfect. Inexpensive, but still a good knife you can actually use.

Whatever you do, do NOT drag that new CRK blade through a carbide sharpener (looks like a V) that cuts material off each side as you pull the blade through it. I believe the Smiths' sharpener has one. You'll put drag marks on the blade; try it on a cheapie kitchen knife first so you can see what I mean. You'll be glad it was not your CRK! Very crude way of sharpening a blade, not recommended.

I cannot really comment on the WE or EP, don't have one, but when I jump on one it will be a Wicked Edge. I tend to go full-bore myself whenever I get into a new hobby. Always have, so I can relate.

I'd recommend getting a Spyderco Sharpmaker ($60 or so) as well to tide you over on the sharpening side of things until you decide on the high-dollar system. Because you'll still probably use it later at times, because it is fast, simple and plain works well. Great on recurved blades; you'll know later what that means.

Best of luck, and let us know what you pull the trigger on!

And follow up also when you decide what your second one is...
 
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Thanks for all the advice guys! The Star-tac is what I've landed on. I have a ton of kitchen cutlery I'm going to sharpen with the wicked edge before messing with the Star. I use my knife for the basic average Joes use- I open boxes semi-frequently at work, open packages from stores, open basically anything I can with my knife like a bag of potato chips. I have some weird obsessive compulsive oddity that when I open things like chip bags or envelopes, I like to cleanly cut them open, not just tear in to something.. Im sure I'm among company here lol.
I appreciate the CRK line for the ability to easily service, clean, and maintain the knife.- from what I've been told. Im meticulous when it comes to certain things, so I most likely will take the knife apart as frequently as needed to clean the pocket garbage out from the inner workings.
Im not well versed when it comes to knives, as I've said, but I can definitely appreciate a quality item with tight tolerances, as could anyone who has experience tinkering out in the shop.
 
Well, you go boy!

Go ahead and place your order for a Startac (...and a Sanremu 710 to learn on)....

You have chosen wisely. If you do go ahead and get the Sanrenmu to learn with, you will have chosen even more wisely.
 
Haggard616 said:
Thanks for all the advice guys! The Star-tac is what I've landed on. I have a ton of kitchen cutlery I'm going to sharpen with the wicked edge before messing with the Star. I use my knife for the basic average Joes use- I open boxes semi-frequently at work, open packages from stores, open basically anything I can with my knife like a bag of potato chips. I have some weird obsessive compulsive oddity that when I open things like chip bags or envelopes, I like to cleanly cut them open, not just tear in to something.. Im sure I'm among company here lol.
I appreciate the CRK line for the ability to easily service, clean, and maintain the knife.- from what I've been told. Im meticulous when it comes to certain things, so I most likely will take the knife apart as frequently as needed to clean the pocket garbage out from the inner workings.
Im not well versed when it comes to knives, as I've said, but I can definitely appreciate a quality item with tight tolerances, as could anyone who has experience tinkering out in the shop.
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Nice choice! I was actually going to suggest that you go with the Startac over the standard if you chose the Umnumzaan. You're going to love it. The only problem is that you might follow the same path I went down after getting my first "real" knife and never stop buying them. Haha.
 
oXObsidianXo said:
Most people will recommend you get the Sebenza 21 for your first CRK. Mainly because it is simple, yet elegant. Functional, yet has great form. And most importantly, I resembles everything that is CRK. You can get the 25 and the Umnumzaan later on, but the 21 is pretty much a must have.

Now, for the sharpening system. If you can spare the expense, the Wicked Edge is better to my understanding. Both are top notch, but the Wicked Edge uses a vice mechanism so it is usually more consistent. However, keep in mind that you can get pretty much identical results with either the Edge Pro or the Wicked Edge. However, the Wicked Edge comes in at almost 3x's the price. Though the stones won't wear out.

Hope, that helps. I currently own a Sebenza 21, and will be getting an Umnumzaan soon. Don't own a WE or an EPA myself, but plan on getting the Wicked Edge when I can spare the $.
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Agreed. Wicked edge for sharpening is the only way to go. Doesn't matter if you're a master sharpener or a novice: the human hand and eye will falter. Precision for me is everything. We all spend a great deal on knives and quite honestly I wouldn't want to jeopardize my knives and their quality.


It could possibly be that I have major OCD. But either way precision is everything...at a cost of course.
 
Dman777 said:
Buy ALL of these knives, carry them alternately for a couple of Months, keep you two favorites and resell the rest here on Bladeforums.
Resale prices are excellent so you wont loose much money and you will really know you have exactly what you want:

Spyderco Southard
Zero Tolerance 0562cf
CRK Sebenza 25
CRK Sebenza 21
Benchmade 940 -CPM-S90V

I am sure there are other mid- high end suggestions that I have missed
Click to expand...

Not bad advice, I agree with the southard and 21 suggestion since I own and love both. I also agree with buying a few to try and then sell the non-favorites, but lets be honest. 3-4 knives to tinker and test drive will be the nail in the coffin of the blade addiction. You would be hooked beyond return.

Congrats on the purchase, I own a reg umm and i love it!
 
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