Toughest Wood for Scales/Handle?

Riz! said:
Lignum Vitae.

Its considered to be the most dense and the hardest wood there is. It used to be used as propeller shaft bearings in old ships and submarines! Resists water rot and insects extremely well

http://www.wood-database.com/lignum-vitae/

http://www.core77.com/posts/25224/l...earings-for-nuclear-submarines-and-more-25224
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From the first link:
"Pricing/Availability: Trade of Lignum Vitae is restricted in CITES Appendix II, and prices for genuine Lignum Vitae are accordingly very high: and usually from questionable sources. Lignum Vitae is typically sold by the pound, (instead of the more common board-foot measurement), and since it is the heaviest wood in the world, this also makes it considerably expensive."

^This made me lol...
Not funny that it's endangered, just the casual nature of it.

My first shout, for a balls-tough knife handle, would be hickory... sure you've seen baseball bats and axe handles crack, but when are you ever going to (if ever) generate that same type of impact/force on your knife handle scales?

And did you ever wrap your hands around you grandpappy's old hickory bat, or axe? Beautifully simple stuff, and still tough when aged - and maintained.
 
If the woods are hard/tough, but are "too" heavy, especially if you're carrying around other gear, then what would be the ideal balanced wood that has the best combo of hardness, strength, weight, robustness, etc.?

I know that pallets for commercial use are Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow Pine woods, and those must be tough yet lightweight, so the strength/hardness/toughness to weight ratio must be high. But, maybe Douglas Fir and SYP aren't sufficiently hard enough for harder daily use on a tool. But, maybe they are, I'm not sure. I wonder how they'd fair compared to hardwoods for various knife/axe/etc. tasks. Perhaps stabilizing these woods would make them stronger, but I fear that would also nullify some of the other benefits of the wood, such as their modulus of elasticity.
 
Osage orange is extremely hard and polishes well. It very beautiful. It can shatter when used for tomahawk handles though.
 
I found this "bow index" for bow woods. Now, it's not exactly the same properties needed on a knife or even the heaviest of choppers, but I think it's valid insofar as you'll have a sudden impact force applied to the ends of the bow upon releasing the arrow.

Here's an excerpt:

"In terms of looking at the raw mechanical data of woods, the best bow woods tend to be those that have a low MOE and a high MOR. (Stated another way, the best bow woods tend to be those that will bend easily, and not break.) It’s of little advantage if a given wood scores well in one area, and poorly in another (i.e., a very low MOE or a very high MOR). What is most important, regardless of how low the MOE may be, or how high the MOR may be, is the ratio of the MOE to the MOR; it must be easy to bend AND hard to break."

Madagascar Rosewood tops the list, and Osage Orange mentioned in the previous post is at #4. I'd like to know how well this would apply to blade scales / handles.

Then again, I bet no one's really that strong enough to practically pull a bow made out of lignum vitae, let alone have a "string" material strong enough not to snap. Lignum vitae, by the way, has a bow index of about 9.03, so it's not as ideal for bow woods, but still very capable in terms of the index. Though, it will probably be too heavy and difficult to cut / shape for practical purposes.

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/bow-woods/
 
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Riz! said:
Lignum Vitae.

Its considered to be the most dense and the hardest wood there is. It used to be used as propeller shaft bearings in old ships and submarines! Resists water rot and insects extremely well

http://www.wood-database.com/lignum-vitae/

http://www.core77.com/posts/25224/l...earings-for-nuclear-submarines-and-more-25224
Click to expand...

Its tough, and so dense that it wont float, but its not that hard, it actually carves pretty easy.

I use it to make bridges and nuts for stringed instruments. mostly because its pretty cheap and I can get it in pen blanks that make it pretty easy to cut to size.

Easy to sand, and shape with a sharp knife. smells pretty good when you carve it too.

JMO, but Osage and locust, or beech are pretty hard.
 
American Elm and Osage Orange were traditionally used for impact tool/weapon handles.

"Palmer and Fowler's Fieldbook of Natural History 2nd edition, rates Osage orange wood as being 2.5 times as hard as white oak (Quercus alba) and having twice the tensile strength."
 
I know there's Bubinga, for top grade bow wood, fairly common in handles, ie Opinel. Said to be stronger and harder then Brazilian wood, Madagascar.
 
From the wood database....

Workability: Overall workability is so-so. Persimmon generally responds well to hand tools, but can be difficult to plane and blunts cutting edges faster than expected. Turns and finishes well.

Allergies/Toxicity: Persimmon has been reported to cause skin irritation. See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for more information.

Pricing/Availability: Not commonly available in lumber form, Persimmon may occasionally be seen in smaller blocks or turning blanks. Expect prices to be high for a domestic species.

Common Uses: Turned objects, golf club heads, veneer, and other small specialty wood items.

Comments: Persimmon trees are known much more commonly for their fruit, and not their wood. Persimmon is technically related to true ebonies (Diospyros genus), and is therefore sometimes referred to as “white ebony.”

Persimmon wood is heavy, hard, and strong for a temperate species. It has excellent shock and wear resistance, but has a very high shrinkage rate, and may experience significant movement in service.
 
heresthedeal said:
I use it to make bridges and nuts for stringed instruments. mostly because its pretty cheap .
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Could you PM me with your source? Real Lignum Vitae is normally one of the more expensive woods, so if you have a source that sells it cheap I want to know.
 
Just out of curiosity...........Does anyone know the actual name of the wood that Condor uses ? All I have ever seen were generic statements about South American hardwood.
 
Pardon my thread necromancy.

I have a couple of observations on wood properties beyond hardness/toughness and the previous handle wood suggestions.

In handles, if unstabilized, the movement of wood as humidity and moisture content changes is an important consideration. Doesn't do you much good to pick a wood you can beat on rocks with all day long if it's going to self destruct from working and warping around the handle rivets or split itself shrinking around a handle tang. You'll see numbers for this given in "the wood database"-

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/

Look for radial & tangential shrinkage (relative to the "tree rings"), the RATIO of radial to tangential and total volume. You would like all of these shrinkage %s to be low, the ratio of radial:tangential should also be low, which indicates a wood is less likely to warp.

One reason desert Ironwood is popular for chef's knives, asside from hardness and often having a grain which looks really cool? The stuff just DOESN'T seem to move from atmospheric moisture changes. Freakishly low shrinkage/expansion on dry material, so low there aren't figures in the wood database.

Considering species for the qualities which make for a good impact tool handle (axe, hammers, etc.) is only a beginning. These need to be flexible in order to A: not shatter and B: absorb and dissipate impact shocks instead of transmitting them to a worker's hands. In hickory, for example, you should use the outer, light colored sapwood which is more flexible and tough for axe handles, not the darker, harder and stiffer heartwood.

Bow woods, being both tough and flexible, may be appropriate. Osage orange/bodark does makes a decent knife handle.

True lignum vitaes (Ironwood, guaiacum officinale, guaiacum sanctum) are dense, very oily woods. Gluing them around a tang is not going to be easy, if possible at all. The bit about bearing use is as much about the self lubricating nature of the wood as the high hardness- It does make a decent handle, if you can fasten it and weight isn't a consideration. Don't need to finish it, just rub it enough to warm it a bit and the oils in the wood exude and provide a nice polish. Smells nice too- The related substitute lignum vitae woods from South America are sometimes burned as incense.

Greenheart is tough, insect and rot resistant all right. But it has really high shrinkage, tends to work, warp and split. Makes a good railroad tie and an EXCELLENT dock piling- It's so poisonous marine borers or anything else that rots or consumes woods won't eat it. It will injure you if you breathe or have much contact with the sawdust too- So don't.

On the subject of sawdust exposure, cocobolo wood is beautiful and has been used for plenty of knife handles- And the sawdust is a really bad skin sensitizer. Nearly all of the other true rosewoods (dalbergia species) are too, so be careful if you try working with any of these.
 
I'd be interested in seeing IPE used! Stuff is so dense it sinks like a rock in water and weather's very well. Atlantic City, NJ redid their boardwalks with it a while back! Stuff wears like concrete.
 
My ironwood scales for my Manix 2 have not changed in 5 years. Good stuff.
 
I read a very interesting article about the ebony wood Buck sources from Taylor Guitars.
Taylor bought the Crelicam ebony mill in Cameroon and started a sustainability project for ethically harvested ebony wood.

I'm not going to rehash the entire article, but I learned a few things about the sourcing of exotic woods.

buck112_ebony.jpg


 
jfk1110 said:
I'd be interested in seeing IPE used!
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From the wood database ipe article, there is a user comment by a guy who makes drumsticks for use on a type of drum that has steel trims, which get bashed on by the sticks. Says ipe holds up on hitting metal without getting destroyed- So ipe is plenty hard, wear resistant and strong and apparently not brittle. The shrinkage % is reasonable as is radial:tangential shrinkage ratio. Also oily enough so water doesn't sink in very fast (ipe requires several solvent wipes before gluing because of this).

Quote:

I make dundun drumsticks out of it. After four years of work to find a wood that wouldn’t break up when slammed against the iron rings on dundun drums, I found ipe. It’s sensationally hard but not brittle. GREAT wood for durability. I buy cutoffs from deck makers, so there is no waste.


https://www.wood-database.com/ipe/

Some comments by others that for outdoor use (or a knife handle that gets wet?) look specifically for BRAZILIAN ipe. As is often the case, several closely related or just similar looking woods get sold in the USA under the same name once that name has achieved recognition. Some called out whatever species was sold to them as "Bolivian ipe" being NOT weather resistant outdoors, requiring yearly sanding of small surface checks and oiling to maintain outdoors.
 
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I'm not a wood expert - but it's much more important
which part of particular wood was taken/processed and how
than actual advertising pitch call !!

Good made oak handles should outlive you easily :^D
Every one of you.
But live a long happy life ...
 
jbmonkey said:
pecan / hickory or ash? make bats axes and such type things that take a beating out of those. have no idea for scales if they wouldnt work well or not. just know they can take a beating without breaking or cracking easily
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American hickory sure stands tall among the toughest woods. Had hammers of different weights handled in hickory. Put them to hell and back on many construction sites. Never failed.
 
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