Trade Secrets

heatride

heatride

Joined
May 15, 2003
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422
I post this about every 12 to 14 months. A.T.Barr is a very fine maker .

A.T. Barr on Trade Secrets
Have you heard the comment “That's a TRADE SECRET”. What a joke! When I hear those words I get really hacked off. To me that means the knifemaker is afraid of me and my knives. It also means he is very small minded. Knife making would not be where it is today, if we did not share secrets. There are no secrets, only new procedures. Knife making is a very complicated process (when it’s done right), I have been making knives over 26 years and I’m a long way from knowing it all. There have been many knifemakers, that have helped me over the years. I am going to mention a few, but there are many more. To all of them I say "Thank You".
R. W. Wilson, Weirton West Virginia
I had made knives about one year when I met R. W. Wilson. Before long I was on my way to West Virginia. I spent a whole week with him. Wonderful man, he was honored in 1996 with the Red Watson award.
Dr. Fred Carter, Wichita Falls, TX
This man showed me many “procedures” that adds quality to my knives. After my time with him my production went down to half the amount of knives I used to make. My quality (I feel) soared. One time he noticed I was admiring some of his patterns, and he told me something I will never forget. He said “A.T., you can copy anything in my shop, except my name”, now isn't that the way it OUGHT to be?
Kit Carson, Vine Grove, KY
Kit was gracious enough to show me the correct way to make a safe and strong liner lock. I asked Kit if I could pay him something. "He said I could repay him by sharing what he taught me", again that's the way it OUGHT to be.
Just recently, I spent some time with W. D. Pease and John W. Smith. Two great knifemakers that shared many techniques. Over the last 25 years there has been many makers that shared their “procedures” with me on the phone and at knife shows. The majority of knifemakers are caring people. If they see a person is having a problem, they hold back nothing.

There are a few makers that will talk their head off, until I mention I am a maker. Then they become very rude and silent. May the “bird of paradise fly up their nose”.


Now for my 2 cents
I have used many slipjoint and lockback knives as patterns. I am like most makers if I have a pattern you like use it just don't use my name . Glenn Dykes
 
Good thread. If it wasn't for the classic books and makers here sharing their "secrets", I would never have stuck with it long enough to figure it out by myself.

As far as designs go, my stuff is so dirt simple that the basic patterns have been around long before any of us. I stay out of discussions like "who invented the tanto?" or "what is a REAL bowie?" It simply doesn't matter much to me.

I do appreciate your attitude, though; if I were to start making folders, I would definitely "copy" the lock etc from other makers. Why reinvent the wheel? That's not to say folks don't have their own style or improve on a concept, but to start learning I would use a proven design.

One note and I'll shush :o : Andy of FiddleBack Forge uses some really cool laminated handles on some of his work; I personally don't do that, just because I associate it with him as kind of his trademark. If I did, I would certainly credit him for the inspiration.
 
Hello:

OK I am just a beginner and I have the great fortune of finding someone who has been making blades for at least 30 some years, if not longer, and he has showed me a whole lot but as he puts it..I am not yet "ready" to learn the "fun stuff" as he calls it cause my skill level isn't there yet.

Dr Jim says there are things that are very hazardous to those that are not yet aware of how to do them properly and once I get to that level he will show me all the "secret processes" that he does (he laughs about that...)..He calls them "secrets" cause they are until I am a bit safer in what I do...

I asked the good Dr about this subject a while back and he laughed rather long and hard and pretty much said the same thing as Mr. Barr..it's nothing..there are no "secrets"..it's just steel..steel will behave like steel will behave. Now new things come up and that's good, but a secret? Not hardly. Only techniques to be learned.

Mostly the stuff he won't show me yet involves certain chemicals and processes that are way above me right now..I have seen him do it, just that I am not ready. Like pattern welding..I asked from the get-go about welding up Damascus and he looked at the knives I made, and they are a bit "rustic", admittedly, and he said something I thought was "classic"..

"Why would you want to make a $50.00 knife out of a $500.00 piece of steel?"..I was a little put off by that for a second, the I thought about it and realised he was RIGHT!

As it is, right now he has me working on hammer control and forging to shape using RR spikes..and I can see a great deal of improvement in my work already. He also showed me a way to harden them to a point where they will actualy hold a pretty good edge too..considering they are not what Jim calls anything near a "cutlery" steel..

I agree with him and Mr. Barr, there are no secrets, only folks as Jim puts is that are so "insecure in what they do that they look ate everyone else as competition and a threat"... Jim sure doesn't..he's as open a book as a man can be on the subject...I am very lucky to fall in with him.


Jason
 
Knifemaking is one of the few crafts where people go out of their way to train and help their competition. There's very little of the "big dawg" complex I've encountered in other avocations. Most of the top makers are usually the humblest. Most of us stand on the shoulders of giants.
 
You only learn new things though two different methods. You hear it from someone else (or see it) and through experimentation on your own terms.
 
If there were secrets there wouldn't be any forum named "Shop Talk". I'm still surprised how this trade is totally open to newcomers, all giants embracing new guys. Thanks to this custom, I'm a new knife maker also. Not a single thought came to my mind to keep a technique to myself. Even I have suggested some really interested customers to teach some basics if they wanted to make a knife to himself. It occurs naturally, you always need a companion, understanding the problems you encounter, sharing the joy of creating something useful and beautiful...
 
Knifemaker's are generally some of the most open and are quick to share methods and procedures. Of all the makers I have corresponded with over the years , only one has ever said he was not interested in meeting up and talking knives.

The rest of them have been great , either on the phone , forum or in person.
 
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