Traditional Brands To Stay Away From?

There is a thread on Rough Rider and similar knives here in the Traditional forum that you should peruse. When dealing with the less expensive knives, most always say something like "very good for the price". A Rough Rider knife is not a Great Eastern (GEC) knife and not intended to be. Take a look at Queen and Schatt & Morgan knives. Overall, very good although sometimes you get a Queen dud and in most cases it is the factory edge that is lacking and not the fit and finish.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/582468-Rough-Rider-amp-Related-Slipjoints

I have purchased Frost knives (Chattanooga TN Frost). I do it periodically hoping that the quality has changed or gotten better. It hasn't. Same today as they were 5 years ago. Frosts aren't great and I don't recommend them even at their price point when you have Rough Rider and Colt knives at a similar price point that are consistently much better.

If you are willing to experiment just a little, I know you were looking at Case knives. Get one, but also pick up a couple Rough Riders in a similar pattern. I bought a couple several months ago and was really impressed. Oh, they aren't as good as a $100 GEC knife, but who would expect them to be for $10 or $12? But they may well be nearly as good as many run of the mill Case knives surprisingly. Just keep your eyes open, pick up a few things and be objective in your appraisal.

The favored brands here in this forum tends to be GEC, Queen, Schatt & Morgan, Case, and not defunct Canal Street Cutlery. The old Schrades (USA made) have quite a following and you can find those in pawn shops and knife shows. They will have a USA on the blade. Current Schrades are made in China.

Eismen mentioned that Frost knives were pretty good in the 70's. That is when they were made in Japan and not China. I believe the China manufacture happened in the 80's.

Until you get comfortable, avoid buying knives that say "German Steel" or "Surgical Steel". Lots of other choices around.
 
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I'd stay away from anything that has Congress in the name. Remington Congress, Case Congress, Schrade Walden Congress and so on they're all terrible. They were made in an era when multiblade knives were fashionable and considered useful. These clunkers weigh a ton and all those blades are just bewildering. Nowadays, we know that single blade clip points are the only knife worth owning.

GEC is made by Northwoods which is run by Charlie Campagna, they're generally considered good but they made some real stinkers in the past. They're known as 25s and 26s, definitely don't buy any of those. They're very short and fat, utterly useless and impossible to open.

If you see a green handled knife that's a sure sign of inferior quality. Steer well clear of those no matter who made them.

Finally and this is very very important, lots of people will tell you that Queen can't make a decent knife. Believe them. It's all true. If you see a Queen for sale, especially a Congress, don't tell anyone other than me. You have to let me know though OK? I'm trying to make sure nobody else has to own one. Alright go buy some barlows and have fun. ;P

edit:

WARNING: WHAT YOU HAVE JUST READ IS A JOKE. IF THIS WERE REAL ADVICE, IT WOULDN'T BE COMING FROM ME. IF THIS ELICITED MORE THAN A CHORTLE, SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP.
 
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Dr-Mabuse said:
I'd stay away from anything that has Congress in the name. Remington Congress, Case Congress, Schrade Walden Congress and so on they're all terrible. They were made in an era when multiblade knives were fashionable and considered useful. These clunkers weigh a ton and all those blades are just bewildering. Nowadays, we know that single blade clip points are the only knife worth owning.

GEC is made by Northwoods which is run by Charlie Campagna, they're generally considered good but they made some real stinkers in the past. They're known as 25s and 26s, definitely don't buy any of those. They're very short and fat, utterly useless and impossible to open.

If you see a green handled knife that's a sure sign of inferior quality. Steer well clear of those no matter who made them.

Finally and this is very very important, lots of people will tell you that Queen can't make a decent knife. Believe them. It's all true. If you see a Queen for sale, especially a Congress, don't tell anyone other than me. You have to let me know though OK? I'm trying to make sure nobody else has to own one. Alright go buy some barlows and have fun. ;P
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I took me a second to realize that you were joking, and I hope it doesn't take as long for the op or we'll have a problem on our hands .
 
All of my opinions, ideas and sentiments are brilliantly presented and thoroughly researched. If you're implying that they have not been vetted for their veracity... you are correct.
 
Dr-Mabuse said:
GEC is made by Northwoods which is run by Charlie Campagna, ??????:eek:
they're generally considered good but they made some real stinkers in the past. They're known as 25s and 26s, definitely don't buy any of those. They're very short and fat, utterly useless and impossible to open.
Alright go buy some barlows and have fun. ;P
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PM sent!!!
 
Dr-Mabuse is joking but in might not be apparent to new folks. Charlie has done SFOs (special factory orders) with GEC for barlows on the #15 and #14 patterns. They are extremely popular and well regarded as are his other SFOs. :thumbup:

It's the knives with the green handles that you have to be careful about. They don't taste at all like mint. :rolleyes:;)
 
I'm glad frost was mentioned. I saw some of theirs but could not find any info on them. I thought they were about the same as rough riders. * The more you know* 😁

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
 
I'm not overly picky about minor flaws but Bear and Sons has confounded me. Good designs and materials but lousy fit and finish. I prefer GEC , then Queen, with lots of vintage old American ones when available.
 
Hes been using my research team by the looks.
I think they might be moonlighting.
I shall have them all thrown in the starving wolf pit.
No worries.
 
meako said:
Hes been using my research team by the looks.
I think they might be moonlighting.
I shall have them all thrown in the starving wolf pit.
No worries.
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You may spare them for now, no one should take the blame for that stinker but me.

Dear reader, if you're confused by the whole Northwoods, GEC, Northfield, Tidioute, Farm and Field, SFO, TC Barlow and just who is Charlie Campagna thing, let me just break that down for yah.

Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC): A small manufacturer from Titusville, PA. They are run by the incomparable Bill Howard. They have four "brands" or product lines, that have distinct but overlapping qualities. These are Northfield, Tidioute, Farm and Field, and the confusingly named GEC. Those are all made in-house on a regular basis, often at the same time.

Occasionally, GEC takes a Special Factory Order (SFO) that means someone has requested and paid for a certain run of knives to be made by GEC (the manufacturer, not the product line).

Some very popular SFOs have come from dealers such as Knives Ship Free run by Derrick Bohn (aka Okbohn) and Collector Knives run by Mike Latham (aka KnifeSwapper). Derrick owns the Northwoods brand and sometimes those are made by GEC.

Charlie Campagna (aka Waynorth) is responsible for multiple SFOs, including the sought after Tom's Choice Barlows and the yearly forum knives. He also happens to be a powerhouse collector, font of traditional knife knowledge, and a straight up good dude.

I hope that helped anyone confused by my jokes. Multiple layers of OEMs seems to be a peculiarity of the knife world that has existed well before GEC. With all due respect to OP, I wasn't a fan of his question. I don't think brands to avoid is a useful line of inquiry. You can check out what everyone is carrying these days or if you want to try something new wouldn't it be better to ask "what are some brands I might be missing out on?". So I answered his question facetiously by telling him all the things in traditional knives that I like best, many of which run against the instagram crowd's tastes. I dragged poor Charlie into this to create a blatant lie that would cause OP to question what I was telling him. I really hoped no one would take me seriously (not that many people do), so I added the winking face at the end. I realize now that tone can be very difficult to infer over print, so I thought a little explanation was in order. Don't believe everything you read and be even more careful what you write down. Truly, internet humor is no laughing matter.
 
When people say frost cutlery pocket knives what exactly are they talking about ?
The ones that say frost cutlery on them are horrible and made in Pakistan.
But knives like steel warrior , and occoe river are decent ( not as good as rough rider sometimes ) but still decent.
bulldog brand knives which I believe they own are excellent and every bit as good as rough rider, and in my case my knife was better that I've seen from Rough rider.
 
Jake-what about the black ones? Perhaps op should send all of those to me, especially if labeled "ebony". I will insure proper disposal is taken care of, they would be over ripe, and too hard. :D
Thanks, Neal
 
neal70 said:
Jake-what about the black ones? Perhaps op should send all of those to me, especially if labeled "ebony". I will insure proper disposal is taken care of, they would be over ripe, and too hard. :D
Thanks, Neal
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Those are the sweetest :thumbup:

Hickory n steel said:
When people say frost cutlery pocket knives what exactly are they talking about ?
The ones that say frost cutlery on them are horrible and made in Pakistan.
But knives like steel warrior , and occoe river are decent ( not as good as rough rider sometimes ) but still decent.
bulldog brand knives which I believe they own are excellent and every bit as good as rough rider, and in my case my knife was better that I've seen from Rough rider.
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I think there was recently a topic on Frost knives. ...maybe it was Frost Steel Warrior... don't remember.
 
I think as a general rule, the consensus mentioned here is right, although I wouldn't let that change your buying decisions... GEC's knives are just very consistently good. Queen has some (sometimes severe) F&F issues and sometimes thick grinds, Case makes some great knives and some with bad issues. Rough Riders and less expensive knives are what they are. But these data points don't mean a lot until you get the knives in your hands.

I am kind of annoyed by aspects of my GECs, especially when compared with the price. The well documented Queen issues are a deal breaker for me, I will not buy any more. When I think about buying a Rough Rider, I feel like I should just go ahead and put my $10 directly into the garbage can. The end result is the same, but this way I won't have to look at an ugly knife in the process, but there are a lot of people who love them... it's not a country of origin thing though, my AG Russell knives are fantastic in every respect.

You don't hear much about Buck on this forum, but the Buck 300 and 500 series are crazy good values, I've bought 8 (used) in the last few months with an average cost of about $14 a pop. You don't hear much about Solingen made Bokers either, but all of them I've picked up were a couple of steps above Case and Queen in terms of F&F. That said, I really appreciate the quality Case puts out for the money, and all of the issues I've encountered have been easy enough to remedy myself.

I wouldn't have any of this experience though, without having picked up these knives after the several years. There are enough inexpensive brands out there that, over time, you can and should try several to get a sense of what you're in to because other people have different standards than you do.
 
The general rule is that you get what you pay for.
They can build great knives in China no worries - eg AG Russel:)
I bought a Cowboy (sodbuster style) for my eldest son when he embarked on a 4 week outward bound wilderness course over in (huulp) NZ last year.
What I saw of it was quality that made me want to get one each for my other sons and nephew.... and me.
It was value. btw it was sent to me prior to me sending it on.
Sadly if you are a cheapskate and don't want to pay the fare you get eaten by a tiger at the zoo.

apologies in advance if that oversteps the thing.

Compare the price of what you are looking at with other knives of the same brand and you will quickly notice a huuge gap.Huuuuuge. Bokers especially.
 
meako said:
The general rule is that you get what you pay for.
...
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Except for Vintage knives on that big auction site. Avoid super highly polished "vintage" knives (often labeled as "Unused!", "NEW!") until you've spent at least 40 hours in a classroom with Jake and/or Charlie. People cut/weld, polish, rehandle, etc, etc, etc old knives that they picked up for $5-10 and toss them on the Bay for $50-300. Don't get get me wrong, there are some gems out there, but there are also a lot of people trying to cash in on folks searching for a gem. While this (obviously) doesn't fall under the category of a "brand", it's something that I, and I'm sure many others, have dealt with before. I once bought a vintage Keen Kutter "One Arm" Barlow from the Bay for $50, and it wasn't until I got it into my hands that I realized someone just scooped the tip of a spear point. That's just me not paying attention and falling for it.
 
I have seen these Bougna Laguioles all over the place,some priced same as knives made in France.The ones that surprised me were Baladeo knives,made in China,they look almost same as real thing ,good fit and finish(I looked at same brand last year and the same models had poor fit ,finish etc).
 
Dr-Mabuse said:
I'd stay away from anything that has Congress in the name. Remington Congress, Case Congress, Schrade Walden Congress and so on they're all terrible. They were made in an era when multiblade knives were fashionable and considered useful. These clunkers weigh a ton and all those blades are just bewildering. Nowadays, we know that single blade clip points are the only knife worth owning.

GEC is made by Northwoods which is run by Charlie Campagna, they're generally considered good but they made some real stinkers in the past. They're known as 25s and 26s, definitely don't buy any of those. They're very short and fat, utterly useless and impossible to open.

If you see a green handled knife that's a sure sign of inferior quality. Steer well clear of those no matter who made them.

Finally and this is very very important, lots of people will tell you that Queen can't make a decent knife. Believe them. It's all true. If you see a Queen for sale, especially a Congress, don't tell anyone other than me. You have to let me know though OK? I'm trying to make sure nobody else has to own one. Alright go buy some barlows and have fun. ;P

edit:

WARNING: WHAT YOU HAVE JUST READ IS A JOKE. IF THIS WERE REAL ADVICE, IT WOULDN'T BE COMING FROM ME. IF THIS ELICITED MORE THAN A CHORTLE, SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP.
Click to expand...

LOL. This had me going for a moment. I saw the statement about congress knives and thought, "Wait, I like congress knives. What's wrong with them?" I am not a real big fan of clip points so you had me there, too. Then I continued to read. Even had to smile inside (just a little) when I went back to read it again.

Many things in this thread have made me smile inside. Not just your posting.

I do have a couple of trappers. One full size Steel Warrior and a medium Case. Not overly impressed with the Trapper models. I also own a cheap Congress. Thing is made by Trophy Stag. No clue who they are. But, I like the style.

I thought I wanted a Case Seahorse. Not really sure, now that I have handled one. I love the thickness and style of the main blade though. Time will tell.

This thread has been good for me. Even if I have been kind of slow on the uptake a couple of times. Thanks for all the support and the many comments. Hopefully, you guys will have more to say.


SC
 
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