Traditional folder knives - I don’t get it

While I do appreciate the workmanship and character of traditional pocket folder knives, they just do not appeal to me. I am old enough to have grown up with them, I owned a few, mostly sak and still own some French picnic knives. I just like modern folders more, I like the utility and function of them. Like the cars I grew up, I enjoy looking at a beautifully restored one but would never want to own one, as I said I prefer functionality in design. The one place where I am 50/50 with knives is my kitchen knife collection with half being traditional custom made Japanese carbon steel ones and the other half, while still traditional in style and manufacturing but using modern steels.
In the end to each his own, what I find cool others may dislike, that's what makes this hobby so entertaing
 
I'm 56 years old, and I must admit, I sometimes look around and am amazed at the changes that have taken place during my lifetime. So many things have evolved, and of course that is a never ending trend. While things would stay pretty stagnant at times in world history, the advancement of technology has changed that drastically. If you were to be zapped ten to fifteen years into the future, you would likely be very amazed at the changes that happened during that time frame.

That brings me to what many of us think of as being traditional folding knives... I mostly mean knives like the Congress, Canoe, Peanut, Barlow, Toothpick, and other such classic patterns that we can easily relate to. Heck, even the Buck 110, seen by most youths as only being a good boat anchor.
I believe these knives are definitely all on their way out.
That does not mean totally disappear from being produced, but certainly relegated to a niche product. As long as some nostalgic and older folks are still alive, there will be a market for these knives, but the market is already much smaller than it once was, and although there will be a new maker here and there to offer and fill that niche, the overall trend will continue being that the traditional knife will be mostly a thing of the past.
This eventually happens with pretty much everything. New things come out, and the younger generations of people start adopting them as their norm. The future is with them... At least for a little while. Why do I say that? Well, because these younger generation folks that have formed new norms, will also age... And then they too will see that things have drastically changed within their lifetimes. They too will see this happen, and then even wonder how the newer generations of folks find this or that to somehow be better or more visually pleasing to what had been the norm.
This does not stop, I have embraced this fact. My younger friends at work have no interest at all in traditional folders, but they get pretty excited about getting the latest modern folder that just cost them a couple/few hundred dollars. They show me their new modern folders, and although I am polite and say nice things to them about their latest aquisitions... In reality their knives don't do anything for me. No matter how well made they may be, it just looks like a well made tool to me, nothing more. They themselves look at them as being a well made tool AND a thing of beauty.
Yup, it's just the process of time... things change.

Maybe some of our traditional knives will wind up in collections after we pass... But, just as likely that they will be seen by the newer generations as things to be discarded. Or, maybe loved ones will place them in boxes in attics and basements, where most will eventually be forgotten and left to start deteriorating to the point that eventually they too wind up getting discarded by them, or maybe by their children as they too grow and move on.

A very few will always be in some good knife collection or museum... This can all very well happen... History tends to repeat itself, and this process is no strange phenomenon.

Please forgive my long winded response to this topic.
 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
I'm 56 years old, and I must admit, I sometimes look around and am amazed at the changes that have taken place during my lifetime. So many things have evolved, and of course that is a never ending trend. While things would stay pretty stagnant at times in world history, the advancement of technology has changed that drastically. If you were to be zapped ten to fifteen years into the future, you would likely be very amazed at the changes that happened during that time frame.

That brings me to what many of us think of as being traditional folding knives... I mostly mean knives like the Congress, Canoe, Peanut, Barlow, Toothpick, and other such classic patterns that we can easily relate to. Heck, even the Buck 110, seen by most youths as only being a good boat anchor.
I believe these knives are definitely all on their way out.
That does not mean totally disappear from being produced, but certainly relegated to a niche product. As long as some nostalgic and older folks are still alive, there will be a market for these knives, but the market is already much smaller than it once was, and although there will be a new maker here and there to offer and fill that niche, the overall trend will continue being that the traditional knife will be mostly a thing of the past.
This eventually happens with pretty much everything. New things come out, and the younger generations of people start adopting them as their norm. The future is with them... At least for a little while. Why do I say that? Well, because these younger generation folks that have formed new norms, will also age... And then they too will see that things have drastically changed within their lifetimes. They too will see this happen, and then even wonder how the newer generations of folks find this or that to somehow be better or more visually pleasing to what had been the norm.
This does not stop, I have embraced this fact. My younger friends at work have no interest at all in traditional folders, but they get pretty excited about getting the latest modern folder that just cost them a couple/few hundred dollars. They show me their new modern folders, and although I am polite and say nice things to them about their latest aquisitions... In reality their knives don't do anything for me. No matter how well made they may be, it just looks like a well made tool to me, nothing more. They themselves look at them as being a well made tool AND a thing of beauty.
Yup, it's just the process of time... things change.

Maybe some of our traditional knives will wind up in collections after we pass... But, just as likely that they will be seen by the newer generations as things to be discarded. Or, maybe loved ones will place them in boxes in attics and basements, where most will eventually be forgotten and left to start deteriorating to the point that eventually they too wind up getting discarded by them, or maybe by their children as they too grow and move on.

A very few will always be in some good knife collection or museum... This can all very well happen... History tends to repeat itself, and this process is no strange phenomenon.

Please forgive my long winded response to this topic.
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I am curious to know what demographics are driving the interest in traditional knives such that, for example, GECs are so hard to acquire. I'm sure that older generations are more heavily represented, but maybe - and without more research I have no way of knowing - there is a growing number of younger traditional knife enthusiasts.
 
Ron Sabbagh said:
Everyone and his brother can make a single blade folder with a pivot and titanium slabs. Once you start to make multi blades, the talent required increases exponentially. There are many makers who can produce a good two blade folder. There are a select few that can make a high-quality three blade folder or higher. A well-made Stockman is a thing of beauty and is not easily found.

Traditionals also utilize use more natural scales such as stag, bone, Pearl, Mammoth, Tortoiseshell and even ivory. I find these to be infinitely more attractive than metal slabs.

I own and use both traditional and modern knives. Both serve a purpose. A well-made multi blade is a thing of beauty and is reserved for only the top echelon of knife makers. Don’t judge the whole category of traditional knives by the hardware store Case knives. There’s a whole world of beauty waiting to be discovered

View attachment 1852321
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Is that Congress a reproduction of the pocket knife Abraham Lincoln had on him when he was assassinated?
 
cmfkdragoon said:
I am curious to know what demographics are driving the interest in traditional knives such that, for example, GECs are so hard to acquire. I'm sure that older generations are more heavily represented, but maybe - and without more research I have no way of knowing - there is a growing number of younger traditional knife enthusiasts.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there will always be young folks that are "old souls at heart"... But they won't be the norm.
They are not likely to amount to a wave of Traditional pocket knife companies opening up.
They may contribute to keeping things going, but will not stop the demise of the traditional pocket knife as we know the market to have been.

GEC is just one of a handful of USA makers of traditional pocket knives. They are a small operation, so it's not like they are pumping them out in huge numbers. Quality production made traditional pocket knives, in this case "slipjoints", are just not being made in big numbers at all like they once were. There were likely hundreds of their makers in their heyday. So, it's easy to understand that GEC's small'ish production of knives gets sold out easily to the niche market that is still left. The biggest seller will be Rough Rider, but it's because they represent the Traditional pocket knife at a very low price, but with them being made in China, they don't have that full blown traditional slipjoint status to them, (at least not with most purists). There is Case, but they are made by using mostly machine automaton. Gec is American, made using hand made methods, well made, and are not pumped out in big numbers... They simply check all the right boxes in the Traditional slipjoint catagory.

Just in the past couple 20 to 25 years we have seen some big names in the traditional pocket knife making field, go DoDo Bird on us. Names like, Schrade, Camillus, Queen, are now history. Camillus and Schrade were especially huge losses, since they both had large production capacities.
GEC makes good stuff, but they truly make only a fraction of what those two firms would produce.
Again, GEC is very small'ish when it comes to production numbers, so them always selling out of their goods, is pretty much expected. They contribute to filling a niche at this point, they are not producing for the larger number of buyers that now aim for the modern folder.
 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
...That brings me to what many of us think of as being traditional folding knives... I mostly mean knives like the Congress, Canoe, Peanut, Barlow, Toothpick, and other such classic patterns that we can easily relate to. Heck, even the Buck 110, seen by most youths as only being a good boat anchor.
I believe these knives are definitely all on their way out.
That does not mean totally disappear from being produced, but certainly relegated to a niche product. As long as some nostalgic and older folks are still alive, there will be a market for these knives, but the market is already much smaller than it once was, and although there will be a new maker here and there to offer and fill that niche, the overall trend will continue being that the traditional knife will be mostly a thing of the past...
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Jimmy, I very humbly disagree.


"Nostalgia" is not limited to "older folks". Every Generation will have some sort of nostalgia. And, as long as someone's Great-Grandpa/Grandpa/Dad used a certain something, the following Generations will continue to walk in lock-step. To use your example, the Buck 110 is a prime example of this. If it was going the way of the Dodo, Buck would be out of the game with that particular model. I'm sure C.J. Buck has a great deal of nostalgia, but at the end of the day he's a Businessman. If that model was dead in the water, we'd all be fighting over the NOS and used ones in the want ads. That's not the case. Any one of us can still walk into any Wally World throughout our Great Nation and buy a brand new/U.S.A-made 2022 Buck 110.

Because C.J. is a Businessman, he will continue to improve and modernize his model line. (*He'd be a fool no to) But, because he has a thorough understanding of nostalgia, he continues to offer the knife that his Grandfather made famous over 50 years ago. Why?...Because folks (*even "younger" folks) are still buying 'em by the thousands. Despite the Buck 110 not being the EDC choice that it once was (*when every Machinist, Construction Worker, Contractor, Biker, etc. had that little black leather sheath on his belt), it is still as relevant today as it ever was. And, if you don't like the classic "Folding Hunter", C.J. is more than happy to offer you a more modern rendition of it.

I'm a 1911 guy. The nomenclature itself tells you how old it is, and implies how out-of-date it should be. Is that the case? No. Why? Because, like the Buck 110, the 1911 is still as relevant today as it ever way. (*maybe even more, considering the prices of the damned things) A 1911 will still make "bad guys" just as dead as it did during the Second World War, and countless incursions beyond that. Perhaps that's why industry leaders like "Colt" and "Springfield" still offer "true" WWII-era 1911 replicas, despite the market being flooded by all kinds of "tactical Tupperware", by every brand imaginable. Despite you and I being "old", someone is still buying 'em. (*Don't even get me started on "revolvers")

While I do agree with you on the "niche" market thing, I don't think it has anything to do with "relevance" or "irrelevance", but more with an ever-expanding market.


As I stated, this is just my humble opinion...which, with $7.00, will get you a shitty coffee at "Starbucks". Your mileage may vary....
 
Alone said:
Jimmy, I very humbly disagree.


"Nostalgia" is not limited to "older folks". Every Generation will have some sort of nostalgia. And, as long as someone's Great-Grandpa/Grandpa/Dad used a certain something, the following Generations will continue to walk in lock-step. To use your example, the Buck 110 is a prime example of this. If it was going the way of the Dodo, Buck would be out of the game with that particular model. I'm sure C.J. Buck has a great deal of nostalgia, but at the end of the day he's a Businessman. If that model was dead in the water, we'd all be fighting over the NOS and used ones in the want ads. That's not the case. Any one of us can still walk into any Wally World throughout our Great Nation and buy a brand new/U.S.A-made 2022 Buck 110.

Because C.J. is a Businessman, he will continue to improve and modernize his model line. (*He'd be a fool no to) But, because he has a thorough understanding of nostalgia, he continues to offer the knife that his Grandfather made famous over 50 years ago. Why?...Because folks (*even "younger" folks) are still buying 'em by the thousands. Despite the Buck 110 not being the EDC choice that it once was (*when every Machinist, Construction Worker, Contractor, Biker, etc. had that little black leather sheath on his belt), it is still as relevant today as it ever was. And, if you don't like the classic "Folding Hunter", C.J. is more than happy to offer you a more modern rendition of it.

I'm a 1911 guy. The nomenclature itself tells you how old it is, and implies how out-of-date it should be. Is that the case? No. Why? Because, like the Buck 110, the 1911 is still as relevant today as it ever way. (*maybe even more, considering the prices of the damned things) A 1911 will still make "bad guys" just as dead as it did during the Second World War, and countless incursions beyond that. Perhaps that's why industry leaders like "Colt" and "Springfield" still offer "true" WWII-era 1911 replicas, despite the market being flooded by all kinds of "tactical Tupperware", by every brand imaginable. Despite you and I being "old", someone is still buying 'em. (*Don't even get me started on "revolvers")

While I do agree with you on the "niche" market thing, I don't think it has anything to do with "relevance" or "irrelevance", but more with an ever-expanding market.


As I stated, this is just my humble opinion...which, with $7.00, will get you a shitty coffee at "Starbucks". Your mileage may vary....
Click to expand...

That is your opinion, as I have mine, and that is totally fine 👍

What I wrote above is still my belief on this matter...

I'm sure there will always be young folks that are "old souls at heart"... But, they won't be the norm.
They are not likely to amount to a wave of Traditional pocket knife companies opening up.
They may contribute to keeping things going, but will not stop the demise of the traditional pocket knife as we know the market to have been.
 
I was trying to find a particular J jackknife story - about slowing down, being thoughtful with your cuts, and having the right tool for the job - but maybe they all do that…

Links to jackknife's Tales Redux 2022

This is a rebuild of an existing thread, that has broken links due to software upgrades. Thanks to @jackknife for all the wonderful stories he's shared with us over the years. Thanks to @Bastid and @Blues for keeping it up to date for many years, and thanks to @stockman242 for his help in the...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Way back in the olden days I had a large Browning stockman style knife with three, count 'em, three blades of different sizes. It was a convenient tool and did a lot of cutting chores. Then a couple of folks names Sal and Gail (nice rhyming) seduced me with a small, easy to open one blade knife made from better steel and at good price. Now I edc a single blade knife made by Sal and Gail that was designed by a Tex guy named Gayle who makes custom knives and who won a lot of national cutting competitions. What is it with the name Gail or Gayle? I liked Sal's, and Gail's, and Gayle's practicality when designing and making a knife that just does a very good job and uses a good blade steel. That good steel has saved me a lot of knife sharpening I can tell you. So that's my sad story about my traditional and modern folder knives.


 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
Is that Congress a reproduction of the pocket knife Abraham Lincoln had on him when he was assassinated?
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Yes, it is. Nickel silver frame, bolsters, & screws. Ivory covers. The only thing that is different is the blade steel. We decided to do 154CM for more practical use.
 
I’ve carried and used a three blade stockman since I was a kid. The multiple blades give me more versatility for various tasks. I now carry both a stockman and a modern single blade flipper just for the one handed operation and quick easy access and I still have a smaller stockman for the special tasks and it can fit in places where my larger flipper won’t. I also have a Buck 110 for even larger heavy duty work when needed.

Having one knife isn’t always enough in my work and lifestyle so multiple knives including the traditional stockman works great for me. I guess I just have a broader range of stuff I have need for a traditional folder.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
I'm 56 years old, and I must admit, I sometimes look around and am amazed at the changes that have taken place during my lifetime. So many things have evolved, and of course that is a never ending trend. While things would stay pretty stagnant at times in world history, the advancement of technology has changed that drastically. If you were to be zapped ten to fifteen years into the future, you would likely be very amazed at the changes that happened during that time frame.

That brings me to what many of us think of as being traditional folding knives... I mostly mean knives like the Congress, Canoe, Peanut, Barlow, Toothpick, and other such classic patterns that we can easily relate to. Heck, even the Buck 110, seen by most youths as only being a good boat anchor.
I believe these knives are definitely all on their way out.
That does not mean totally disappear from being produced, but certainly relegated to a niche product. As long as some nostalgic and older folks are still alive, there will be a market for these knives, but the market is already much smaller than it once was, and although there will be a new maker here and there to offer and fill that niche, the overall trend will continue being that the traditional knife will be mostly a thing of the past.
This eventually happens with pretty much everything. New things come out, and the younger generations of people start adopting them as their norm. The future is with them... At least for a little while. Why do I say that? Well, because these younger generation folks that have formed new norms, will also age... And then they too will see that things have drastically changed within their lifetimes. They too will see this happen, and then even wonder how the newer generations of folks find this or that to somehow be better or more visually pleasing to what had been the norm.
This does not stop, I have embraced this fact. My younger friends at work have no interest at all in traditional folders, but they get pretty excited about getting the latest modern folder that just cost them a couple/few hundred dollars. They show me their new modern folders, and although I am polite and say nice things to them about their latest aquisitions... In reality their knives don't do anything for me. No matter how well made they may be, it just looks like a well made tool to me, nothing more. They themselves look at them as being a well made tool AND a thing of beauty.
Yup, it's just the process of time... things change.

Maybe some of our traditional knives will wind up in collections after we pass... But, just as likely that they will be seen by the newer generations as things to be discarded. Or, maybe loved ones will place them in boxes in attics and basements, where most will eventually be forgotten and left to start deteriorating to the point that eventually they too wind up getting discarded by them, or maybe by their children as they too grow and move on.

A very few will always be in some good knife collection or museum... This can all very well happen... History tends to repeat itself, and this process is no strange phenomenon.

Please forgive my long winded response to this topic.
Click to expand...
I think you have a very narrow scope of things and I can understand when a person is in a set predictable world and that’s all they see.

I live in a very rural area and most of the farmers and ranchers, and outdoorsmen have traditional knives in their pocket or on their belt. The Buck 110 is still going strong and the production numbers are witness to that fact. The news and media focus mostly on the metropolitan areas and are very out of touch with the vastly larger rural areas across the nation. To them their world is all they know and they assume that everyone is in the same boat doing and living the same way. I have to laugh when a news story with a reporter who knows nothing of what they are talking about and then proceed to tell their audience what they think are relevant facts. Lol. I know immediately they are full of it. Lol the same with Hollywood films.

Just because some people don’t know or understand what others do and deal with doesn’t make them irrelevant. Try broadening your understanding of different things and ways.
 
Lesknife said:
I think you have a very narrow scope of things and I can understand when a person is in a set predictable world and that’s all they see.

I live in a very rural area and most of the farmers and ranchers, and outdoorsmen have traditional knives in their pocket or on their belt. The Buck 110 is still going strong and the production numbers are witness to that fact. The news and media focus mostly on the metropolitan areas and are very out of touch with the vastly larger rural areas across the nation. To them their world is all they know and they assume that everyone is in the same boat doing and living the same way. I have to laugh when a news story with a reporter who knows nothing of what they are talking about and then proceed to tell their audience what they think are relevant facts. Lol. I know immediately they are full of it. Lol the same with Hollywood films.

Just because some people don’t know or understand what others do and deal with doesn’t make them irrelevant. Try broadening your understanding of different things and ways.
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It may be more true about Rural areas and such. But, the big picture is that it didn't matter back some time ago... rural, suburban, or city, the traditional folder was the choice. Well, basically, it was the ONLY choice. Not so much anymore, not by a long shot.
To not realize that American traditional folding knife manufacturers have dropped off to the point of there only being a handful of them left, (one's with any real impact in production numbers), is to not face reality.
With competition from abroad, and then the modern knives gaining popularity, it had simply become tougher business than ever before to stay in the traditional pocket knife business.

The niche for quality American made specimens will continue for a smaller company like GEC. Also, for the more volume makers, like Case and Buck, they can still thrive with so much less American made competition now.
But, to see the traditional market regain to anywhere near what it was at previously?... Nope, not even close. As long as there is only a few US firms left, the niche market is big enough for them to stick around for a bit.
Anyhow, everyone sees things the way they see things. I look around and see more and more young folks loving their modern folders. It's only a snapshot, but... then there are the numbers of US manufacturers left making these traditional knives, and that low number is not a guess or opinion, it is a reality 👍
 
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A.L. said:
I think that one reason for the rising popularity of slip joint knives is peoples desire to have something more old fashioned and stylish in the world of plastic and electronics.
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Yes, it could be exactly what you stated above.
But, then one wonders if that would translate into a long term thing, or just a short term fad.

Let me explain... Some younger guys started looking into how guys used to shave back in the olden days... Using a straight razor. That trend picked up a little steam, enough so that some cutlery firms started offering some where they had not done so before.
Some of the guys wanting to go "old school" shaving, were just going online and acquiring vintage specimens that were in mint shape, or vintage specimens that were brought up to par/refurbished.
While it may have been pretty cool for them to get into this, I doubt that most will stay with that form of shaving as time goes by. It will likely be a fad that just comes and goes after not too long a period of time.

Of course only time will tell 👍
 
A.L. said:
I think that one reason for the rising popularity of slip joint knives is peoples desire to have something more old fashioned and stylish in the world of plastic and electronics.
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For some, there will always be people who like a more traditional approach. Two examples from other interests. In photography, something I did professionally for over 40 years, there are still a few film cameras around and there will be for the foreseeable future a few who will hang on to film from both young and old enthusiasts. Yes both film and digital cameras take quality images but digital has all but buried film usage and cell phones are crushing point and shoot digital cameras. On the other hand for me in the kitchen years ago I bought the latest and best modern food processor with all sorts of blades to make chopping and slicing more convenient and faster. Well I discovered traditional handmade custom Japanese kitchen knives soon after and never used the food processor for any slicing, I prefer cutting by hand. My point is there will always be diversity in our choice of knives but market trends are what they are, maybe in some markets people like a traditional knife in their pocket and in others like to wear a belt pouch, I just see in my ripe old age of 69 the modern folder is becoming the dominate style going forward. Fixed blades I think is a different story.
 
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