Traditional knives and public perception.

That's ok Elliott. I get what you're saying. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies when it comes to drawing attention to the knives we love.

I'll leave it at that. No need to take this thread further off track than it already is.

Good talking -- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr typing -- to you.
 
I agree that an individual's demeanor is an important foundation for both public and legal perception. However, traditional slip-jionts can function independently from personal demeanors to express an individual's intent. Intent is what makes them non-threatening.

The intent of an individual carrying a slip-joint is very likely "positive" or "neutral" as they are generally designed as utility tools and nothing more. In this day and age, if a person wants a weapon, there are better options.

Emerson markets his knives very honestly, for example. His knives are made with "bad intent," and while they can function very well for everyday utility cutting, they were designed with fighting in mind (stabbing and cutting people = bad intent). It should be hard to explain carrying an Emerson without having just a little bad-intent (or at least a capacity for it).

There are many knives that are modern that are not designed with bad intent, but they are sort of in a grey area. They can still freak out the general public, since they open fast, and they can also be marketed neutrally, yet clearly have the design features of a knife with bad intent (top and bottom finger guards, stiletto tips, pommels, etc).

If the design of the knife is clearly built for non-violent utility, then it will express the individual's intent who is carrying it. Traditional slip-joints, multi tools, and SAKs are great for for expressing neutral or positive intent (and nothing more).

I am just trying to point out that the design of a knife has an effect on perception in its own right.

-Max
 
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I'll bet there's a lot of folks who were stabbed in juke joints by toothpicks spinning in their graves right about now...:eek:

;)
 
Blues said:
I'll bet there's a lot of folks who were stabbed in juke joints by toothpicks spinning in their graves right about now...:eek:
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Don't forget all of the one-eyed guys running around who played with BB guns when they were ten. ;)
 
Although born in OK, I was raised and brought up in GA, NC, and VA. In my younger days (1940s and 1950s), it wasn't unusual to read in the paper on Monday morning aout a stabbing or two by someone with an ice-pick. Kinda makes ya wonder if ice-picks had anything to do with the tactical pens of today.
 
I don't know if a Traditional knife is less menacing than a Modern as such, but they do look more friendly! The other day the supermarket had just had a delivery of fresh broccoli, a favourite green of mine. What I don't favour so much is the huge amount of tough stump that you are expected to pay for! Out comes a GEC Half Congress, the Sheepfoot is just right for slicing through unwanted stump. I prepare a few heads prior to bagging and weighing and a family is watching me, but not fearfully more with envy. That's a good idea says the mother, I'm fed up with paying for excess weight. I'm never keen on lending out a knife, so I trim them up some heads and they leave happy. Others seem to be gathering but I think it's time to move on...

However, I wonder how they would've reacted if I 'd whipped out a Kershaw AO or my Benchmade Mini Grip....? Maybe I'll try it out next week, and maybe not. Using two hands to open a knife is inherently more measured and I suppose less freaking. Stag handles don't spoil harmony either.
 
I like traditional slipjoints (mostly thanks to you guys here) but I also like to carry a (small, simple) one-handed opener sometimes. In recognition of the fact that the "snick" effect can frighten some people, I often open my one-handers slowly with both hands. I like the fact that a knife with a thumb stud or a thumb hole CAN be opened one-handed, or two-handed. The choice is up to me.

As many people have said so far in this thread, it's my attitude and the decisions I make that really make an impression on people. I'm sure if willgoy had taken out his Benchmade slowly and with care, opened it with two hands and sliced some broccoli, then that family would have been unafraid. On the other hand, if his ZT 0300 with a 4.5 inch blade appeared at neck level with a loud "clack", then we can imagine what the looks on their faces might have been.

Make good decisions, people. The choice is up to you how the world views knife users.
 
willgoy said:
I don't know if a Traditional knife is less menacing than a Modern as such, but they do look more friendly! The other day the supermarket had just had a delivery of fresh broccoli, a favourite green of mine. What I don't favour so much is the huge amount of tough stump that you are expected to pay for! Out comes a GEC Half Congress, the Sheepfoot is just right for slicing through unwanted stump. I prepare a few heads prior to bagging and weighing and a family is watching me, but not fearfully more with envy. That's a good idea says the mother, I'm fed up with paying for excess weight. I'm never keen on lending out a knife, so I trim them up some heads and they leave happy. Others seem to be gathering but I think it's time to move on...
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That's great! Willgoys drawing a crowd.....I think we're on the edge of a TV show idea here. Just kidding, bit the grocery store story is a great one.

I think our crowd/audience is important when we open/use a knife. I think most people are not affraid of knives or people who use/open them safely. I realize that we can't always pick who is around us in a public setting but if knives are used safely in public I don't think we'll have too many issues.

Some crowds like knives....Last year I was attending my Marine Corps League's Christmas party and we needed a knife to open a package. I took out the only knife I had with me at the time which was a Kershaw offset. It's a large knife with a very distinct looking blade. I opened the package and got all kinds of good feedback about the knife. "Now that's a knife!" Several of those jarheads wanted to take a look at it. I think they all liked it except our old China Marine who couldn't see Santa much less the knife! You gotta love Marines!
 
jackknife said:
I used to carry larger knives than I do now. It wasn't unusual once upon a time for me to pull out a large, almost 5 inch Eye-Brand sodbuster or large Case soddie to cutsomething. Even though my edc was a 3 7/8ths Buck stockman, I'd now and then carry something a bit bigger. But times change.

As I grew older, and I hope and prey a bit wiser, I downsized my edc in all things, cutlery included. It was then I noticed something about the non knife carrying people reaction to knives in general, and traditional knives in particular.

They don't seem to be seen as a threat like some of the black handle one hand wonders.
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In my 40's.....carry big piles of stuff in pants, jacket and shirt pocket, frequently looking like there is a tumor in my pants(insert joke). Right now I am carrying 4 knives, including the 2009 Traditional barlow, which is a great using knife, but the one most used right now is the J.W. Smith liner lock with a 3 1/2 blade that is carried IWB.

If something needs cutting, whatever knife is available is grabbed and used, and the knife goes back to the storage area it came from. It is not brandished, used in a threatening manner or with any fanfare. It is not "thwacked" out, nor accompanied by cackles or screams.

That said, if someone feels uncomfortable, they feel uncomfortable. It is on them. Many people have a negative reaction to knives because at some point in their lives they have been cut....that tends to leave a lasting impression. You cannot undo that, and changing the negative opinion of a non-knife person is darned near impossible.

The guy almost singly responsible for the automatic knife ban was a showboating Senator from Tennessee named Estes Kefauver, it was passed in 1958, interestingly, Kefauver lost a bid for re-election in 1956.

There are a lot of stupid laws on the books, I tend to ignore them, and deal with the consequences as they present themselves.

It is all really a matter of how you live your life, knife or no knife.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Personally, I couldn't give a hoot about others feelings about my edc cutlery choices. If they want to be far less prepared in they're daily lives than I, then that is as much of that persons choice not to carry a knife as it is mine to carry one, er or two..

That said, I am convinced that the real difference for most sheeple types is how the mechanics of the opening process that the knife operator uses that makes the difference in the sheeple folk's fear factor. In other words, its our behavior that makes the difference.. If a knife is whipped open in a one handed fashion quickly in front of these folks it may likely freak them out whether the knife is traditional or not.. Lets face it, most of the uneducated sheeples don't know a traditional knife from a tacticool. However, if a knife is opened in a non threating fashion with both hands like you would any typical folding knife, than I believe you are going to get a much less of a 'wow' factor or no reaction at all, without regard to the kind of knife you have.. Then of coarse you are always going to have the panic stricken amongst us and they are going to be scared of everything and everyone regardless.


Anthony
 
Here in Israel

A SAK in red with a corkscrew
Recognised as a picnic knife
Draws no reaction...

But a 3 1/2" barlow is seen as a knife
This is when I open the knife out of sight and palm the knife until I use it
So there is very little to see

I will not even discuss the reaction to Modern knives!!
 
I was at walgreens with my wife and I opend my benchmade eclipse to cut out a coupon. A women was standing near us and I thought she was going to faint. I now carry a kershaw corral creek as my edc.
 
I agree it's all in presentation. My father once has a talk with me when he gave me a knife as a birthday gift. The discussion wandered into a little back and forth on how to be respectful with it and when to use discretion. His words...

You have a p***** too. If you go whipping it out and waving it around to prove you have one, don't be upset when people think your nuts.
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i just got back from the beach, i carried my victorinox cadet. when i pulled it out to cut some cracker wrappers at an oyster house nobody had that wierd "you're a murder-rapist look on thier face.

cool story jackknife, keep'em comming.
 
Here in New Zealand the Ministry of Justice did a review of knife possession law earlier this year, in response to a nasty crime involving a knife. It concluded that the present crimes did not need reviewing but that the penalties could be increased.
http://justice.org.nz/publications/global-publications/k/knife-possession/publication

In the city where I live there has been a bit of a spike in knife crime over the last few years, however the overall numbers in the country have been static for over 10 years. Here, though, the majority of knife crime is with kitchen knives, where the perptrator has just grabbed a knife from the kitchen drawer on their way out.

New Zealand courts are pretty good at "reasonable excuse" and are also pretty good at taking the scene into account. A city park at lunchtime and a street outside a nightclub at night are treated very differntly by police and courts.

B
 
Havokk said:
Here in New Zealand the Ministry of Justice did a review of knife possession law earlier this year, in response to a nasty crime involving a knife. It concluded that the present crimes did not need reviewing but that the penalties could be increased.
http://justice.org.nz/publications/global-publications/k/knife-possession/publication

In the city where I live there has been a bit of a spike in knife crime over the last few years, however the overall numbers in the country have been static for over 10 years. Here, though, the majority of knife crime is with kitchen knives, where the perptrator has just grabbed a knife from the kitchen drawer on their way out.

New Zealand courts are pretty good at "reasonable excuse" and are also pretty good at taking the scene into account. A city park at lunchtime and a street outside a nightclub at night are treated very differntly by police and courts.

B
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I'll have to take a look at that document since I am now living up in Palmy:D
 
I carry modern Spydercos mostly.I like my Enduras and Native for tools and possible self defense(highly unlikely).I open them slowly in public or use my tiny little Spin-very sheeple friendly.I WANT the ability to open a knife fast because I see no advantage in a two handed slow opening knife.To each their own.I don't care if someone is scared of their own shadow and sees a knife being used legally and gets upset.I guess they will get used to it and learn to accept it.I have to open my knives at work quick sometimes or my machines will shut down and cost down time/wasted material.My supervisors and coworkers all carry modern quick deploying knives and we have never had a knife fight or stabbing yet.We have had several people cut with razor blades because they were in a rush to cut tubing and did'nt have a good grip or it slipped off and caught the other hand.Around a police officer a knife will NOT come out unless he/victim is in trouble and needs to be cut out of a seatbelt or something.I have thought of getting pretty blue Spyderco slipjoint.Used to love Case and Shrade and have a couple too.
 
Just another 2 cents from me. ALL knife owners/users need to stick together, just like the gun and archery groups. Infighting does nothing for our cause. Enough on that. Anyway to me each knife has it's place and use because they are "tools" first. If a soldier or LEO needs to use a blade as a weapon it is a last resort tool. I love my traditional knives but also know the need of a one hander from many past experiences. Those would have to be off-topic though.
 
I think traditionals give a people a sense of rememberance. Alot of the younger folks nowadays had grandparent/parents that carried what we now call traditionals, and that makes them feel safer around them than modern one hand opening locking folders.

My dad use to carry a traditional, in fact my first knife was a small 2 bladed traditional. I currently carry both a modern locking folder, and a traditional (SAK rambler). But, the more I see traditionals, the more I "fall in love with them".
 
:rolleyes: Appreciate the interesting post as well as all of the interesting tales. My own comments are nothing unusual, they are only different beause of my different background and experiences.

Your comments about public perception and the way people use and display knives are quite good. I always have a knife with me, but I have found that people today seem to look upon knives as "weapons" because that is what they are exposed to in books, on television and in computer games. Too few people see and use knives as tools for daily living. Unlike my father, I did not grow up on a farm nor did I attend a small community school where people all knew one another. While I was encouraged to hike and enjoy outdoor activities, I was not taught to hunt and fish as a way of life.

During college, I worked in Alaska on a road survey crew and was exposed to a more outdoor living style. Upon graduation, I went to Western Samoa as a Peace Corps teacher in a village. Living with a Samoan family, I practiced subsistence agriculture and cut wood for the cooking fires. The little experience I had using knives and axes was helpful to me, because I could show the locals that I was not completely clumsy and incompetent.

In Samoa, Every Day Carry is a machete with an 18 inch blade. These tools, and they are considered tools, are not brandished or used to threaten. They are used daily, but are put aside when entering a house. On a bus, the kniives are wrapped in newspaper and put under a seat. People know knivesand use them as tools; they are not thought of as weapons. The Samoan perception of knives is in many ways more civilized than the perception of knives in much of the United States today. Faiaoga
 
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